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I posed this question a while ago. I was discussing this with a co-worker and a debate erupted from folks listening in. 

Did any of you assume the OP was *gag* "faithful"? 
I can't count how often, when I was younger, now, someone "stealing" someone away from a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife then being destroyed when that very same person "allows" someone else to do the very thing again. 

Or, in the rare case it's admitted, engaging in an affair and being outraged to find out the OP (also known as fellow cheater) is (shock) cheating with entire zip codes. Otherwise known as "duh". 

I never honestly considered it and was clear that I expected nothing of the sort as well as telling him my husband (at the time) plans would supersede anything he had planned. Isn't that a Hallmark special in the making right there?

I know the compartmentalized thinking waywards can engage in. I understand that all too well. How logic can be entirely suspended is not something I get, though. While not a certainty it's enough of a fact (and one "you're" actively proving out) that I'd think it would be assumed. I mean gravity is a theory but I wouldn't test it off the Empire State building on the off chance there is an "Elle exception". 

Maybe my comfort with how people can disappoint others is too entrenched. I'm not jaded at all. I think people for the most part are relatively benign. Just know that, if given the right situation and all too common thought processes, shit's gonna happen "you" won't like...at all. 

I am a BS here, but I have never understood that part of the affair- when the affair partners think that the other person is being honest.

I remember dating someone back in high school, and watching him lie to a good friend of his on the phone. I remember thinking, "Gee, this dude just lied to his best friend without blinking an eyelash. Wonder how much of what he says to me is true." I had issues trusting him after that, and that little "relationship" ended quickly.

On a much larger scale, obviously- when both affair partners are married/in relationships, both parties enter into the affair fully aware that the AP is lying to their spouse. What makes them think the AP is being honest with them either? Logically, it just doesn't make sense to get involved with someone who is a known liar and expect honesty.

Even if there is one married spouse and the AP is single- the AP is obviously someone who is okay with lying. They know the married spouse is lying and are okay with it. That says a lot.

I guess it's part of the fantasy? The fog? I don't know, but it has never made sense to me.

So true!

Unfortunately, I have come to realize that my FWH really thinks that he was something special to OW. OW proclaimed FWH was the "Love of its Life".

I wonder if OW proclaimed that to OW's first BH as OW was fucking its MM, did OW proclaim that to 1st (?) MM. Meanwhile, working on my fWH to be its next conquest. OW moves in with MM, starts fucking my FWH, and then marries its MM. Proclaiming all the while that my FWH was the "Love of its Life".

Although, I don't feel my FWH would have cared how many OW was fucking, as long as he was getting his fix, he never loved OW, just used OW and told OW from the get go it was strictly FWB's.

And, why doesn't the spouse count as being "unfaithful" to some OP's? Is it because the WS treats their BS as a nonentity, so the OP does the same? Yet, the same OP maybe outraged when they find out there is more OP's than just them.

I never thought for a second that my AP was "faithful". I chose him because I thought he had cheated on his wife, too many times to count. I was shocked to later find out that probably wasn't the case (he hadn't cheated on her nearly as much as I thought). Maybe I'm one of the exceptions though...

Here's what I don't understand at all and maybe someone can explain to me:

When wh was in his LTA his OW slept with a bunch of other co workers but expressing how much she wanted him to leave me and have a family with her. She went around calling my wh her boyfriend but at the same time was sleeping with other men.
What I don't understand is why my wh would continue to mess with her and call her a good person knowning that is what she did and keep going back!
Now if I did that he would have called me everyname in the book and tossed me out like no tomorrow! I just don't get it!

With regard to this topic, I would like to submit my very first post on SI as a very special read for anyone who cares to have a peek. Wayward Side, page 8 at the moment, "The Cheater Who Got Cheated On".

Oy freaking vey...at least I received some votes for the Epic Delusions Hall of Fame...

Our MC explained this very well to me. He called it "bubble logic".

"she was a nice person"
"I could trust her"
"what was going on with her had nothing to do with you"
"I believed she had my best interest in mind"
"She told me this wasn't the first time she'd done this, but it was different with me"
"We agreed not to see anyone else, other than our spouses"

etc ad nauseum...

The logic going on was confined to the situation between them. Anything outside that bubble was minimized, turning it back to their bubble logic that made everything they were doing okay. "I can't call tonight because unfound is going to be home" "that's okay. Too bad she doesn't trust you like I do." HUH ?

When both were living the same shared bubble logic, it made sense, and imo made it possible to justify the blaring fact that not only are they cheating on their spouses, but cheating (whether physically, emotionally or situationally) on the each other by still being married. The only difference is that the AP
knows about the spouse, accepts it and encourages behavior that they themselves believe they would never be on the receiving end of. The logic breaks down from the outside, as they believe that their AP is trustworthy...but only within that bubble. Cause if they look at the whole, the outside, they would have to admit that no, they aren't trustworthy. That's why when the bubble is burst, they can sometimes see how illogical their thinking was and that trusting someone to be faithful to you when they are unabashedly being unfaithful to someone else. They can only apply the logic within the bubble, between the two of them.. because to look at at logically from the outside just. doesn't. work. The shared bubble logic works for them because they are both doing an unspeakable act and have each other to justify it, encourage it and as long as no one else enters the bubble (who will challenge the logic) can maintain it.

*I hope I'm not wayy off base here. It's always a crap shoot when I reply to anything uncertainone posts... if it is, disregard

**I use "they" a lot there, but it's soley based on our situation, experience and what we learned. First person composition is evading me today .

***asterix

SisterMilkShake,

The wayward forum is not a place for BS's to vent. That is disrespecting this forum. Please remember where you are posting.

My WW's AP told her he had an Open Marriage (not true).

So she told him we did too (not true either), so all systems clear for a little fling. No big deal, everybody cool with it and all.

He was shocked when his W outed them to me. I was too.

WW was shocked when I discovered that she wasn't the only pussy he was fucking on the side. Quote "I wasn't faithful to my wife, why on earth would I be faithful to yours?"

Like gambling in the back room of Rick's Cafe in Casablanca. ""I'm shocked. Shocked!"

My W most definitely thought OM was faithful. After admitting they used no protection, I asked her to get tested, and she couldn't grasp why. She even knew he had another A years ago with a good friend of ours, but she still refused to believe he could've been with others she didn't know about.

I knew all along he was a liar. And I mean not just by cheating on his wife with me. I witnessed it all the time with him telling me crap.
I remember shaking my head at it at the time. Of course, that was not an impetus at all to end it.
I just figured it was par for the course and he would never be a guy I ended up with so why worry...
gag.

[This message edited by rachelc at 1:45 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

I sincerely apologize if my post was considered venting. Meant no disrespect to anyone or the forum.

I didn't feel it was, I was just stating factual statements as I see them. Can you please point out specifically in my post what is considered venting so I can avoid it in the future? Or, do you consider the whole post venting? Do you want me to edit my post?

Very sorry!

I know that my FWH was *NOT* "faithful" to is LTA. He "cheated" on her with his first AP...who his LTA had known about him being with at first too. It was a convoluted triangle. AP1 set him up with AP2 (the LTA) and then he went back to AP1 once during AP2 and AP2 was LIVID. Brought it up the entire two years they were together.

AP2 was also living with a man in a 1 bedroom apartment but claimed they weren't sleeping together and she slept on the couch. FWH asked, she he clearly had suspicions. I'm fairly certain she was not "faithful" with him.

And, why doesn't the spouse count as being "unfaithful" to some OP's

Simple. Because it's not being unfaithful to THEM. We've seen that even here. Some marriages have started as affairs. That, in and of itself doesn't condemn them. Just makes them really bad bets unless BOTH partners do the work.

Bubble logic. Love that. Makes perfect sense. I engage in it myself. Have in pursuing most of my hobbies and interests.

My ex had a stroke when he heard from one of his co-workers who had to respond to a DV situation that required medical assistance what risk I had put myself in. Was pissed as shit and said it was irresponsible and selfish. He was absolutely right. It was. No thought of impact on family if it went horribly wrong.

It's funny when we look at our lives how many patterns we can identify that make "I'm stunned I'd do this" become, "holy shit, can't believe I didn't do this before now".

When the 4+ year affair began, OW was still married. When she separated I think she was so caught up in the affair and the possibility of WSO ending our relationship, she was "faithful" to WSO.

About 1.5 years into the affair, WSO and I began therapy for a year, and I never was told about the affair. OW was not happy we were going to therapy and this is when OW left her job with WSO, her divorce became final and she began dating a guy publicly, then moved away, and was in a relationship with a guy in another town. OW would call, talk about the guy unfavorably and WSO and OW were still saying "ILY". OW visited and worked here, off and on, and would meet up (sexual) with WSO.

IMO, OW wasn't "unfaithful" to WSO. I do think she wasn't "faithful" to her H or any of the other guys after her S, then D. Even after D-Day, and our R was underway, OW broke contact again to tell WSO she wasn't attracted "that way"(sexually) to her new boyfriend.

Even though OW had other men while the EA/PA continued off and on, WSO never considered her as being "unfaithful" to him. He says he was happy for her and relieved OW was dating other guys and not living here.

SisterMilkshake,

PM for you

This was something my AP and I discussed....I had asked him if he had ever had an A before and he said no....to this day I still don't believe him, not that it matters anyway.

There was a single mother at my work who was newly D...AP had told me he found her attractive and would constantly talk about her...one day while at work my boss called me into the office to tell me the single mother had gone to her about my AP....he had been sending her messages on FB and friend requests and was making her uncomfortable.

So when I found this out I was pissed and confronted him on it. Looking back on it I see now how ridiculous that was, but while in the moment I couldn't believe he would do that to me....even as I am writing this now I am shuddering at the memory....only cuz I can't believe how stupid and crazy I was acting.

My 44 year-old husband's 21 year old OW was shocked that my husband had lied to her. I think she actually believed he was in love with her, that she was beyond betraying because she was young and beautiful and bendy. We had a horrible confrontation in which he established to her where his loyalties lay - she looked so confused and betrayed and said to him, in front of me, 'I don't even know who you are'. I just about broke out laughing, just for the bizarreness of it.

She has a thing for older, wealthy, married men. Weird. My H knew his OW was seeing other people - he didn't care.

wrong place

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:21 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

"I wasn't faithful to my wife, why on earth would I be faithful to yours?"

How true. I also believed that my AP didn't have any OW besides me. I look back and see how ignorant I was to think that. I was just another notch in his belt; his 'Tuesday' girl as my BH has said.