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First post- I need ideas please

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Morhurt posted 8/3/2013 07:54 AM

I'm going to try to get the gist across without telling the story as I'm sleep deprived and raw.
I got "voluntary full disclosure" in early June after TT for 6ish weeks before that. He has been working hard and in many ways appears to be doing all the right things. He had already implemented NC and has maintained it. His heart is definitely in our marriage (coming up to our 15 yr anniversary).
The problem: I'm just not sure he truly gets it. I have been... Pretty awesome if I do say so myself. Maybe too awesome. I have cried with him lots, but also let him cry. I've laughed, loved and had fun as well. I think when I'm acting fine he forgets, even when my words say that I'm hurting, if I'm not bawling he thinks that I'm ok.
Last night we had an argument because I felt he wasn't valuing my pain enough. Blah blah blah. Skip ahead to 1 AMish when he says "I apologized (for the argument), I let you fall asleep in my arms, I need help, I need feed back! You have to meet me half way here!!" (Yes he whisper yelled it)
I lost it. I cried and silent screamed (4 sleeping kids). Finally I just said it. That he was out if his mind to think I wasn't meeting half way. Half way was me allowing him to empty the trash. Allowing him to be in the gutter outside our house. He's in my bed!! I was so livid. He seemed to get it... But will it last?
My question:
If H wants to R and is truly trying every day but messes up big time (IMO) still... What do I do? Should I try to cut him off emotionally? Stop being his house wife and only care for the kids? I just don't know how to get it all through his thick skull.
Supportive to R ideas welcome.
Thanks for reading my long post,

painpaingoaway posted 8/3/2013 08:17 AM

Get the book:

"How to help your spouse heal from your affair: a compact manual for the unfaithful" by Linda J. MacDonald

H read it, and it helped him get it. It was an extremely short, to the point, easy read.

betrayedbyluv posted 8/3/2013 08:23 AM

I'm pretty much in the same boat here after 11 months. I bought my husband how to help your spouse heal from your affair and he claims to have read it and says he keeps re-reading it but he doesn't "get it" either. I read something the other day from a preview of the book When Sorry Isn't Enough and it said that if they don't show that they hurt from hurting you then it doesn't feel like a real apology. That's how I feel, he walks around like everything is ok, when I am sitting in my room crying and he does nothing. His was of being supportive is "I'm here because if I'm not then you will be pissed at me tomorrow", he doesn't get that I NEED him to be here because he truly is remorseful for the pain he caused and he wants to help me through it, not because I'll be pissed if he doesn't.

heathenchristian posted 8/3/2013 08:39 AM

I am in same situation. I'm trying to understand. Its almost as if he's not really wanting to discuss it. D-day will b 2 wks Sunday .

He felt I was beating him up the other day when I started asking some questions said he felt cornered.

WTF, Really?!

Anyway we have been getting along I don't want all details (sexual). I just need some time line specific time periods on some things.

No don't cut him off emotionally especially if you want to really work at it. (IMO)

In our M if one shuts down the other does & it gets bad. That's why I am here now. I need to be open & honest about how I feel he has to too.

He may get mad but he can't harbor resentment or hold grudge. He has to let you know how he feels too & you need to listen without getting angry too. Try to constructively find a solution together.

This is what we are trying now. We have never been great communicators of our wants needs and feelings.

I hope this helps a little. Sorry if I rambled.

I may have to buy the book painpaingoaway suggested. I am trying all avenues.


keptmypromise posted 8/3/2013 09:13 AM

The problem is we really want our waywards to be in as much pain as we are. But that is impossible. Our suffering in our's alone. You have to be cheated on by someone you trusted, loved and thought was your best friend...then maybe they could relate to your pain. The process of getting over infidelity is a MF. We have a brotherhood of pain here at SI. Some pass through the pain easily, and some never get their balance back 100%. I get angry knowing (2+ years out) that I will never get (understand) the affair(s) 100%, and my WW will never be placed back on that pedestal she was on. She recently said that she hopes before one of us passes away that she can regain my respect 100%, and for me, that is something that is way down the road.

jjct posted 8/3/2013 09:22 AM

we really want our waywards to be in as much pain as we are. But that is impossible.

What I've seen, when there's true remorse? They hit a place where they're in more pain.
I know, hard to believe right now, but I've seen it.

This is good for your WS's to read. It has helped thousands of people:

Odek posted 8/3/2013 10:17 AM

I think I can relate to this slightly. I'm only in day 4 post DD, but my fWS seems to get visually pissed off when I repeat questions, or doubt her answers.

I've just gone with the approach of pointing out that she has absolutely no right to get irritated, as it's her own mistakes that have brought this on us.

Think I might try giving her one of the books you kind folks have mentioned above however.

In my eyes, true remorse needs to be felt by the WS and the BS needs to be able to feel this, as a simple "I'm sorry, honest" just does not cut it.

If they don't feel bad for causing your pain, how can you trust them not to drop the ball?

dargirl posted 8/3/2013 10:24 AM

my husband hired a hooker 5yrs ago and took her to paris spending $12000, he swore he would never betray me again.. just a few weeks ago it turns out he had a 3 month online affair with a scammer in ghana. He thought she was real.. he was going to take her away to rome.. he bought hotels rooms $900 unrefundable.. sent her $2200 for airline ticket.. was frantic about getting tickets, cashed in our silver etc etc.. when I found out I had to get away went up to canada for a week with family.. I cried the whole time I was there... BUT he did not.. he left me a note in my car saying that he loved me more than anything and wanted to make this work.. begging for forgiveness but it turns out that as soon as I left.. he became very angry and went on ashely madison site.. and many other sex lines.. he went on a date with a women the same day I left spending $$$ on dinner at fancy place then bought her gas for her car and pd for parking.. he said there was no sex.. then the next day he went for breakfast with another girl.. ihop then he bought condoms and lube.... this is on his banking statements I just got yesterday.. he then took a girl to the ritz carlton for dinner spend $200 on dinner, then took another girl out for dinner spending $200 in the 7 days I was gone and hurting he was doing on 4 dates.. he had another date planned for sunday but I arrived home by surprize on the saturday.. his plans were changed....
I am in total shock.. I went away to try to heal and he got mad?? and went on all these dates.. by the way he says he never had sex just dinner.. he swears... he also spent over $800 on ashley madison buying time a terrible immoral site... how could anyone want to date a married man..? especailly when they are married too.. not able to understand not in my morale code.... could never do this... I have been totally betrayed.. he is going to councelling the councelor said that he is narcistic and a sex addict.. wants him to go to therapy asap.. I am lost.. who is this man I have been married to for 11yrs and been with for 14yrs.. I am scared.. lost and so sad... not the person I used to be....

myperfectlife posted 8/3/2013 11:51 AM

I am also having a hard time trying to understand how to value my hurt and his hurt.
I have already filed for D, but he said today that we could have fixed things if I would have met him halfway.
I told him, at that point (a few weeks ago) that my "halfway" was that I hadn't yet filed for divorce.
He said that I should have moved back home (which I didn't because I don't feel that's a healthy place for me, or for the boys). And that since I didn't move back home that I CHOSE to end our M.
I told him, HE chose to end our marriage by having an affair and that it wasn't a difference of opinion. When he is the betraying spouse he needs to give me what I need to feel safe-he's too afraid to be alone to give me that space.
So, I do understand that it's hard to know where the line is and how to be a good person without "rewarding" them, and how to get your needs met without seeming to be 100% selfish and like you're not putting anything into R.
It's a fine line and it is different for everyone.
Right now I don't have the energy to fix my dynamic with him until he fixes his own shit and I fix mine.

Morhurt posted 8/3/2013 12:11 PM

Thank you for the responses. After I wrote that we talked. I was trying to give him the silent treatment to show how hurt I was but it honestly felt counterproductive and insincere. He is very remorseful. He shed many genuine tears over the pain he has caused me. The problem is that his stupid ego jumps up to defend him when he feels somehow threatened. Not every time, but some times. And some times is too many times for me. I'm trying to think of this as a learning process for him (and me, due to his life circumstances I have always been very protective of his feelings) but man, being the teacher/guide when my heart is shattered is so f'ing hard!!

myperfectlife posted 8/3/2013 12:19 PM

I know there's a fine line in R as to how much to help your WS, but have you considered that you may be showing some signs of codependency?
Of course there are always things to talk about during R, but you're not a therapist and shouldn't be put in the position of being one for your WS.
Check out this thread:

Morhurt posted 8/3/2013 12:41 PM

I will check out the linked posts when I'm on the laptop, they don't seem to work on my phone and I can't figure out how to search for them.
As for codependent... Totally possible. I am seeing an IC (and so is H), she hasn't mentioned that to me yet but maybe she will. She does often have to redirect me from answering her questions using my H's point of view. She says that I have a tendency to write myself out of the story.
I understand that this is a long hard journey, I just want to know that I'm on the right path.

stupidgirlme posted 8/4/2013 10:26 AM

So sorry for you!!

I have been... Pretty awesome if I do say so myself.

My H has said many times that I have handled his betrayal so much better than he ever would have been able to if the tables were turned. I'm even amazed at myself for how I have been. But taht doesn't seem to matter when it comes to the way they treat us. It's almost like a green light for them to continue the hurt.

inmisery1 posted 8/4/2013 10:52 AM

I can relate, m H doesn't get either. Although he should, in his 1st marriage his wife left him for his co-worker. They were together for 3 years and had only been married for a few months. I met him right after it happened, he was shattered. I thought he would never do that to me, because he knew how it felt. But after 26 years of being together he had an A.

Lionne posted 8/5/2013 09:56 AM

This isn't remorse, this defensiveness they show when you ask questions is then still trying to defend their actions in sine way. Also called rug sweeping.
Until they get that you will ask questions, cry, vent, retreat, etc. Until... until you are done. It takes that long to prices the pain of this trauma. They don't get to dictate how long it will be, or under what conditions you ask the questions, or how many to ask, etc. I am approaching the five year mark and still have times I need to ask, vent or cry. The more up front and patient they are, the quicker you heal, IMHO.
That said, I don't advocate you verbally abuse your WS. There is a difference between sharing your pain and that.

1Faith posted 8/5/2013 10:20 AM

From the Healing Library

Q: What Is The Difference Between Remorse And Regret?

A: When confronted by my BS on dday, I immediately felt regret. Regret for having been careless enough to get caught. Regret for the pain my BS was in, regret for the shame I felt. It was as if I was disconnected from my real feelings and was only able to feel things only in relation to how it affected me. Regret is being sorry for something you've done, but not necessarily taking action to make amends.

One can feel sorry that their BS is hurting without doing a single thing to comfort them or help them recover. Regret is a feeling that is momentary and can be easily suppressed, especially if you are someone who compartmentalizes. Regret is passive.

Remorse, on the other hand, is active. Remorse comes when you, as the betrayer, feel compassion for your BS.

It is when you are willing to do whatever it takes to help your partner heal. Remorse is selfless. Remorse asks, 'what more can I do to help you?'

Your BS needs to see that you understand their pain. When you feel remorse, you realize that you'd do anything- literally anything- to take away your loved one's pain. In other words- you "get it."

Remorse allows you to take responsibility for your bad choices and is necessary for recovery and reconciliation. Don't be passive in your healing. Regret is not enough. Take ACTION!

Where do you think your husband is in regret land or is he remorseful? It takes time. Keep reading and learning.

Knowledge is power.

You are still unsure of your new world and that is completely understandable. You don't trust yourself to trust him yet. He has to earn that trust through actions not just words.

You have allowed him to stay in your life and are giving his a second chance that is far beyond meeting him 1/2 way.

Don't rush yourself or your healing. It's a process and a long road. Your WH needs to buckle up for the rollercoaster ride he's place you on. Emotionally you will be all over the place for some time (again normal).

Hang in there, read the 180 and just try to take one day at a time.

Good luck.

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