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WH emerging from the fog??

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hatetheworld posted 8/3/2013 22:38 PM

I don't know if this would be better in the R forum but since we are divorcing and not R I thought I would put it here.

WH and I have been seperated for a month now and since November of last year I have been giving him chance after chance to stop his ONS and R with me. I have been begging him, doing 180, being mean, being nice and NOTHING worked, so I gave up.

Now I dont care to work on R because I honestly dont think I even have feelings for him anymore and guess what?? NOW he wants to "do everything it takes to show me he loves me and only wants to be with me"!!!! Why now??? Like I said, I don't think I even have feelings for him anymore but I do get SUPER jealous when I know he is with other women!

I get jealous and I try to imagine my life with him again and all I can think about is going through all this hurt again because I have been here before, I have heard this all before! He keeps asking me if he can spend the night or come over at 2 am when his shift is over just to hang out. He tells me I am beautiful and he loves me and will do anything that it takes to have me back and will wait however long he needs to. He says he will give me his passwords to everything, quit his job, put gps on his phone and the app so I can see his text messages. Why would I want to live like that though?? I'm so happy now!

I don't know... am I just scared to give him another chance because I am afraid of how it will end or am I truly just not in love with him anymore? Thats the question I have been asking myself lately. Although my head knows the answer my heart struggles to let go of the final things that I cant control anymore, mainly being the fact that I KNOW he is out with all these girls and I shouldnt care but for some strange reason it just eats at me until I snap at him.

You would think if he truly wanted to show me how much he was sorry he would just do things like delete all the new 20 year olds he just added to his fb these past 4 weeks and delete his profile from the dating website and just put the text messaging app on his phone and give it to me, right? Or am I expecting way to much?

Is this his last desperate attempt at holding his control over me or do you think he is truly remorseful? Is this a common step during the D process for the WH? You all seem to call the moves exactly as they happen and are right everytime! : smile: I just need advice

ButterflyGirl posted 8/3/2013 23:15 PM

A few thoughts come to mind, so I guess I will share a little of what I think.

First, ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. Is he in IC? Does he want MC? Telling you that you are beautiful and he loves you and will do "anything" to win you back and wait however long it needs, I don't know, they don't sound like real promises of actions that he has taken and will take to prevent himself from disrespecting you again.

Personally, I think "after his shift" or "2 a.m." sounds like a booty call. And somehow I would guess that's when he's been with other women, but you ARE NOT an other woman. You are his freakin wife!! I would think him asking for daytime stuff instead of "sex time" stuff would speak louder to me..

And honestly, if he's willing to be so transparent, he should just give you all those passwords, quit his job, etc., NOW and not just if you agree to reconcile. If you are separated, I would think some time of him proving himself before allowing him to come back would be a good idea, and he should just be giving you those now. Sounds a little like he's saying "If you do <xyz>, I'll do <abc>.. And I would think he should do <abc> regardless.. I mean, what if you say no? Is he just going to continue to screw around? Or is he dedicated to really working on himself whether you say yes or no? He has to want to change for himself..

And he should just delete all those chicks on FB and his online dating accounts before you agree to anything either. He should be doing all these things already just to TRY to win you back, not promise to do them later IF you promise to take him back. HE HAS TO EARN YOU BACK. You are NOT expecting too much here if he is serious..

I guess if I was you, I would look up "hoovering" in the healing library. Every time STBX "hoovered" me, it was because things were falling apart with his other women. But sorry buddy, I AM NOT A PLAN B.

Honestly, it sounds like he has a lot of words right now, but no real actions, and promises of what he will do don't mean squat.

I personally think that no wayward deserves a chance at R. They have to work their butt off to earn it. I'm not quite seeing it yet from this post, and I would caution you to watch his actions to see if he is serious..

And if it's too little too late, that's fine too. Your old marriage is gone. It's up to you if you want to try to rebuild a new one with him..

Lots of hugs to you..

Nature_Girl posted 8/3/2013 23:15 PM

Without knowing if he's a narcissist or not, this is classic "hoovering" behavior. Meaning, he's sucking you back in to his vortex of cheating & lies. Calling you at two in the morning? Like you're a booty call?

homewrecked2011 posted 8/3/2013 23:21 PM

My XWH said he wanted to come back. I looked him dead in the eye and said, "Not unless you go to MC AND IC for 6 months first". I told him I did not want a fake marriage, I did not want to put the kids thru this again. IF he wanted me he had to SHOW me BEFORE I would let him back by attending MY CHOICE of MC and IC. Well, I guess that was too much to ask of him.

Thank God I did that because the OW had broken up with him temporarily, and we would have had to go thru it all again, just when we were starting to get along great w/o the freak.

TRUST ME ON THIS... A man who REALLY loves you and his children will go to MC and IC for 6 months for his family BEFORE you let him back.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:23 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)]

heartbroken_kk posted 8/4/2013 00:19 AM

I think "emerging from the fog" and "hoovering" look a lot alike. At first glance anyway. But they are fundamentally different. I agree with everything posted before me. If he wants to do "everything it takes" tell him... "That's great. Go ahead and do it. Let me know when you've done everything it takes. If you have to ask me what it takes, don't bother. Go google it. It doesn't take a genius to look up "How to save your marriage after cheating" on the internet.

Just tell him "Don't tell me you will do it. Just do it. I will know by your actions, not your words, if you are serious"

In the meantime, continue to focus on your healing. Work on being the best mom you can be, the best woman you can be, on your own. Don't work to win him back. Don't accept his 2am booty call. Don't even stress yourself over this. Keep moving forward on the D. You can stop it at any time all the way up until the last hearing.

And seriously, if he gives you even one reason to be jealous, then it's just hoovering.

You are way too young to have to settle for a man who can't be faithful. Don't settle.

SBB posted 8/4/2013 00:50 AM

Ignore his pretty words. Watch.His.Actions.

His actions are showing you that he is not a single bit remorseful.

Here is the Hoovering thread.

I also posted a thread recently containing the email exchange we had at Final S.

I urge you to read it, look how pretty the words are? I bet you can imagine how hard they were to resist - I soooo wanted to believe them but I simply knew I could not.

Whilst he was whispering his hoovering sweet nothings into my ear his actions were screaming out at me like banshees.

Read the exchange knowing that 20 weeks later he told me he was ready to introduce his 24 year old office gopher/prior OW (unknown to me at that point) to my then 2 and almost 5 year olds as his GF.

That there is the kind of 'remorse' you're seeing right now. He is showing you who he is - BELIEVE HIM.

ButterflyGirl posted 8/4/2013 08:30 AM

If you have to ask me what it takes, don't bother. Go google it. It doesn't take a genius to look up "How to save your marriage after cheating" on the internet.

Right?? Sheesh.. I was on the internet looking up how to deal with cheating within days of D-Day. (Unfortunately, I looked up "cheating" instead of "infidelity" and never found this site till February, even though D-Day was in September.)

All those hoovering times when he said, "But I don't know what to do," I should have had that line ready.. But it was just another piece of proof that he didn't really want to fix it. He just wanted to know the minimum he had to do to hook me back for a little longer.. Stupid manipulative asshat..

myperfectlife posted 8/4/2013 20:41 PM

If you have to ask me what it takes, don't bother. Go google it. It doesn't take a genius to look up "How to save your marriage after cheating" on the internet.

^^^ I actually said something like this to my STBXWS the other day. He was saying how HE wanted R to go. I told him that's not the way it works. I said he does what makes ME feel safe. He tried to say "that's a difference of opinion" well your opinion doesn't matter since you had an affair. Simple.

I read the hoovering thread and this stands out:

They may not be consciously lying when they make promises of change and put them into practice. They may be so convincing because they are so convinced.

Ugh, yes! They seem to be coming out of the fog, but this hoovering is temporary and easily reversed by FEAR of being alone.
You are going to have to be like the adult in a parent-child relationship, who listens to their child's black-and-white promises of great expectations or of "I'll never talk to him/her again" and says "Hmm, we'll wait and see".

How long are you willing to wait? Me, not that long. I am sick of all this drama and so are my kids!

If you're not sure if you're being hoovered you should wait and see. Take the long-term view. A person's character is like an average of their behaviors over their lifetime. People can and do make positive changes in their lives sometimes, deciding to change their behavior for the better. Wait a year and see.

And during that year I will be moving forward with my D.
That's just me, but I found that truly cutting all safety nets (me being WS prime safety net) is the ONLY way I will ever know if he's truly changed.
But by the time I know, I may not care. And he knows that too.

hatetheworld posted 8/5/2013 03:45 AM

Is he in IC? Does he want MC?

No, he is not in IC and we are not in MC. I mentioned it and he looked up a counselor who deals with SA and MC but he said that he is only going to go if I decide to try and make it work. I told him I think he needs to go regardless to help himself, not me. He also supposedly took a SA quiz online and texted me telling me that on a scale from 1-20, a 6 is considered a SA and he scored a 16 It was kind of random but I would believe it!

Personally, I think "after his shift" or "2 a.m." sounds like a booty call. And somehow I would guess that's when he's been with other women, but you ARE NOT an other woman.

I agree!It kind of cuts deep because thats exactly when I caught him planning to meet up with the last chick when I kicked him out.

If you have to ask me what it takes, don't bother. Go google it.

I LOVE this! I swear he wants me to hold his hand and tell him exactly what he needs to do, step-by-step, to make me happy and I am not willing to sit around and do that. I want him to just make me happy and I dont think that will ever happen again.

He made a comment the other day that he "never felt wanted or craved and didnt feel like I showed any affection towards him." Then he asked "If I fix my problems and we decide to work on our marriage, will you try to work on showing me more affection and compassion?" I told him "No, thats not something I should have to work on. If it isn't there after all of our problems are 'fixed', then what would be left in our marriage to fight for?" I still don't think he "gets it."

I also posted a thread recently containing the email exchange we had at Final S

Your letter helped me a lot because those are the things that he has been saying to me. I just feel that they are empty words with no actual meaning behind them. I am so glad that I am to the point that I havent fallen to hard for those emprty words. Had he said all these things 4 months ago, I would have eaten them up as fast as he could say them! I wanted so bad to R then, now, not so much.

How long are you willing to wait?

Not long. Actually everytime he says "I love you" or calls me "baby" it makes me cringe and actually makes me mad. I catch myself rolling my eyes everytime he texts or calls.

I am so glad I asked before I fell for his pathetic attempts to keep me on his rollercoaster! I KNEW there had to be some name for his recent games!

But by the time I know, I may not care.

This!! I think this is where I am at now. I just don't care anymore! It's just letting go of that last little bit that keeps me reeled in that has been the issue. I just have to stop caring about what he is doing... or who. I think why I care is not because I want him back but because he is so openly disrespectful about it! I only kicked him out 4 weeks ago and literally 3 days later he called my BIL to brag about sleeping with 3 different girls! If he would just do what he does and not flaunt it around, I think I could cut the cord so much easier!

Anyways, I guess only time will help that issue. In the meantime, I feel empowered knowing that at least I have gotten to the point where I don't buy into every bs compliment he throws me.

** I'm sorry if anything didn't make sense. I am really tired and shouldn't be up at 4 am but thanks to WH texting me 6 times, I am

[This message edited by hatetheworld at 3:50 AM, August 5th (Monday)]

myperfectlife posted 8/5/2013 07:31 AM

You sound like you're thinking clearly.
My STBXWS also said something along the lines of "if I knew we would be together I would stop talking to OW/go to IC etc" and I said the same things to him, do it for yourself.
He may be starting to get that now.
I've been detaching for a week or so and when he texts bombs me its making me anxious. I don't like it at all. I am trying to be civil and I do still love him, but I am trying to work on me.
Just keep your head up and do what you need to do for yourself for now, don't even worry about anything else.

LadyQ posted 8/5/2013 07:50 AM

Ah, yes, the hoovering. Been there, done that and all I got was a lousy T-shirt.

As soon as I said the "D" word, x was out of here so fast all I saw was dust and hair flying. His "I'll do anything" turned out to be zilch. He didn't try to fight, he dropped counseling and was back on Craig's list flashing his Johnson all over the internet. But on a positive note? At least his actions proved his true intent.

SBB posted 8/5/2013 09:11 AM

I am really tired and shouldn't be up at 4 am but thanks to WH texting me 6 times, I am.

Turn your phone off at night.

You need to get really proactive about sleep.

I slept maybe 2 hours a night for those first few months and it made all of this so much harder to cope with. I don't like meds so I've been going the natural route.

But on a positive note? At least his actions proved his true intent.


hatetheworld posted 8/5/2013 15:22 PM

So, my gut feeling was right and so were all of you!

Today I dropped off the kids at STBXWH's house and was dressed in my gym clothes. I get a text as soon as I leave saying "You look freaking amazing. Since its been a month, maybe we can fool around tonight "

We are supposed to go to dinner to talk about the D and how we are going to handle a few things. I thought I had made it perfectly clear that it wasnt anything special, just a place to go without the kiddos. Apparently not clear enough.

He then texted something like "its been a month which is like 2 years for you. I'm tired of masterbating and just wanted to see if you wanted to make love to me before dinner since we are going to try to work this out between us."

First of all! Not ONE TIME did I say we were going to work this out! What I said was, if he wanted to try to prove to me that he has seriously changed and wanted our relationship to go for it and I will see where we are in 6 months but that I have NO hope for us every getting back together! Secondly, if he was seriously trying to prove to me that he has changed and working on his SA, why in the hell would he even ask me a stupid question like that!!!

I told him there was absolutly no chance of that happening and if that was his intentions on tonights "talk" I didn't want to go...

THAT right there just proves that I have and am still making the right decision!

Thank you asshat for reinforcing that for me!

SBB posted 8/5/2013 16:42 PM

THAT right there just proves that I have and am still making the right decision!

Their patent lack of remorse makes the decision easier but it is still painful. I'm so sorry honey.

When your anger hits channel it into getting as far away from him as possible.

Until then, read up on the 180/NC. No more chit chats - just kids/finances. Time to close the emotional bakery too.

hatetheworld posted 8/5/2013 21:14 PM

HA! I'm such an idiot! The title of this thread actually makes me laugh now! Didn't take long...

We went to dinner to talk about a few things. The ride there and dinner went great but the ride home sucked.

He started talking about trying to work things out and told me that he has been trying to make things work! He told me that I am to blame for half of all of this...his cheating, our marriage failing, etc. He told me that if I had just let it go and forgave him when he told me about the baby then maybe we could have worked on us. He said that I haven't been meeting his needs for 6 YEARS now! We are coming up on our 7 year least we were...

He said that what he needs from ME is compassion and affection. He wants to come home and I drop everything, run to him, hug and kiss him and ask how his day was. He told me that I have been selfish the last 6 years and all I cared about were my sexual needs because I refused to up the amount of times I would give it up to him. He said if I can't work on that then fixing our marriage wasn't going to work!

I told him I REFUSE to take any blame in the situation because even if we were having issues (which I wasn't aware of 6 years of issues...just the past year and a half or so) it was NO excuse to cheat on me. All he could do was repeat that it was my fault and he loved me and never wanted it to happen and that it wouldn't have if I was holding up my end of the marriage.

It hurt! I'm not going to lie. His words hurt... I have given up the majority of my teen/adult life to him and it meant nothing... the whole entire marriage meant nothing...

I will get over it. I suprisingly didnt even cry! I normally would have been bawling! I am such an emotional person. I cry when I'm mad, sad, happy, scared, anything! But I didn't... I can't! I'm so numb and just don't care anymore. I have nothing left to give him, nothing left to fight with him about (except our kids) and nothing left to say to him. I honestly expect these hateful things from him and try to prepare myself for them. I seriously am just finding it hard to care anymore about what he thinks or says. I guess thats good?

On a positive note- My dinner was awesome and I had an awesome drink that I enjoyed greatly!

myperfectlife posted 8/5/2013 22:10 PM

What an ASS.

I am sorry he blamed you for all that.
My WS basically said the prime reason he wanted to divorce was because I was a bad mom.
Hahahahaha! Wow. He later took it back and admitted he was just a cheating piece of shit.

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