Last night he told me that he broke NC two weeks ago. He had seen a disturbing news story that may have impacted OW and her family, so he sent her an email saying he hoped all was ok. She responded and indicated that her husband was ok with them reestablishing communication as he thought it would help his and her healing, and from there my WH and the OW exchanged several emails and had two phone calls over the course of five days.
WH saved all the emails and told me that he wanted to be transparent from the beginning, but that this started just as we were about to leave on a big family vacation. He didn't want to cause me pain at that time, and of course we had a great vacation. So in his mind he was trying to do the right thing but sees that he screwed up. I told him that this latest betrayal is more devastating than the original affair (I suspected that whereas the breaking of NC came out of the blue when thing were seemingly so great), and that I have to reassess our future if OW is in his life even as a long distance friend.
So now WH says he is sad that he will have to say goodbye to OW again and scared that my distrust and feeling of betrayal will cause me to end the marriage. I can't believe he thought there was any chance of me being ok with this - and I am alternating between devastation and total anger at his most recent actions.
I know I should start the 180 and start protecting myself, but in the meantime I am so devastated by the realization that I thought we were on a great path and actually weren't....and that he is still totally in the fog. He says he absolutely loves me and doesn't feel that for her...but he was willing to risk everything to send her a stupid email. Please help...
So now WH says he is sad that he will have to say goodbye to OW
Please read about the 180 in the Healing Library under BS FAQs #11. He needs a wakeup call. The 180 will make you stronger to get though this.
So now WH says he is sad that he will have to say goodbye to OW again
I agree with Pippy.
I am not sure when your dday was, but it appears to have been pretty recent.
IMO and from my experience, R shouldn't even be in your vocabulary yet.
It's too early. You need to be in IC to heal you he needs IC to heal him.
You cannot heal a marriage until you have 2 healthy, emotionally stable partners working in the same direction.
After dday you are dealing with shock and trauma. It isn't a time to commit to R, it's a time to commit to YOU. To making sure you are strong, emotionally ok and have dealt with the many issues an A brings into a marriage.
You may even have your own FOO issues to deal with ( I had plenty)
So take R and put it away for now...just leave it on the shelf and revisit it in a few months. Start to take a path that will enable you to make a sound reasonable choice after your H has had time to work through his issues. You need time to watch his actions, see who this man has really become and if he is someone worthy of R.
The devastation one feels when NC is broken is horrible. I am going to give you a different viewpoint from karma though.
Is your H remorseful, and kind, and understanding to you? I he is then I would definately not table R at this point. My H broke NC pretty quickly after D day. Then she contacted im several more times, where he just couldnt resist communicating with her. It took me finally telling him I was done, for him to really really get it.
He gave me all kinds of excuses, but ultimately I think it was a combination of breaking the habit of the relationship, and realizing that I deserved and demanded more respect than being second choice, or an option.
So My suggestion to you is to have some very firm consequences for breaking NC. Be ready to stick to them too. Like if he breaks NC then he is no longer welcome in your home, and be fully prepared to make him leave. The next thing I would have him do is send a NC email to her. Then you need to contact her spouse, and tell him that you do not feel that continued contact is going to help her heal, and to please respect your wishes, and ask her to stop all communication with your H. When you communicate with her spouse, don't tell yours that you are going to, just do it. MY feeling is that him giving the OK for them is total BS.
I think your H wants to R. The fact that he awas forthcoming with this information is actually very good. Do you have access to all his emails, passwords, etc? If not now is the time to get it. I would also suggest placing spyware on any and all of his electronic devices, and putting a VAR in his car. He has proven he isn't trusworthy, so you need to verify his behaviors, and actions.
Sending you lots of hugs and strength.
Anyway, besides this one big setback, my WH has made huge progress in the six weeks since D-Day, and he has been remorseful and understanding and kind nearly from the beginning. I believe his desire to R is genuine, and if he can be consistent in the actions that he has been demonstrating, then I can R as well.
The big problem in all of this is the NC. Despite all of the positive progress and hard work, I see now that the affair hasn't really ended from an emotional standpoint. He can't seem to break away from the habit of having her in his life, and if it weren't for that HUGE issue, I think we'd be making huge strides forward.
So today is a big day. He's either going to tell her that he has to go NC, or he's going to tell her it is ok for them to continue their "just friends" relationship, or he's going to tell her that he is choosing NC for the next few months to give all of us space and time. Only one of those choices is acceptable to me, so I'm bracing myself.....
And yes, your husband needs to learn to view the OW as his enemy. She was his accomplice in destroying you and your marriage. She helped him on his path of selfishness and pain. She is NOT a friend. Until he really understands that, it makes R very dicey.
He should not be calling her about NC if that is his plan. Don't allow that as an option. An email sent from him simply stating "our affair was wrong, I am ashamed of my actions, and I never want to hear from you again" is the most he should do. Then, crickets. Forever.
And tell her husband!!
Your WH is the one that broke NC. There is no way her BH told her it was OK for her to talk to WH if he truely knows of the A. I would make sure he knew.
My WH#2 broke NC as recently as 4/13. I was furious. More so than when he actually had the A. It set us back so far and destroyed any chance we had at R at this time. He still doesn't get it. He thinks just because she texted and he called her to leave us the hell alone (or so he claims) that I should be OK with that. I am not. It killed what tiny bit of trust he had reestablished with me and now he sits again at 0 a year after DDay#2.
Do not let him use excuses to break NC. He should not be still texting or calling her, no matter what.
NC=NO NEW HURTS!!! WS's find this so hard to understand and it often results in the end of their marriages. They can't seem to let go, just like an addict can't let go of the drugs. It made their ego's feel good and they are addicted to that feeling and often restart the A as a result of broken NC.
You are going to have to be firm about this and he is going to have to stick to it or the chances for R are null and void. You cannot R with a spouse who is still in contact with the affair partner. (((HUGS)))
He kept notes of the call and told me about it the moment I walked in the door. That led to a long conversation about boundaries and the ones he has set for communication with her. At one point he even said that he gets to be selfish and choose her as a friend. He was frustrated by the conversation and is pretty annoyed with me, of all things. He says he hates these discussions that go on and on and all of my over analyzing. He says he has told me a thousand times that he loves me, I am his choice, he is committed to us, and that all he wants from her is a friendship so the fact I keep questioning that has pushed him over the edge.
I am reeling and have no idea who this person is. Up until two days ago he was supportive, remorseful, willing to talk and answer my difficult questions, etc. and now he is a complete stranger. I am close to kicking him out but that is complicated by the fact we have two young kids, he is a stay at home dad and I am the breadwinner. I travel regularly so it will take serious planning to figure out how to do this. I am not willing to leave my house and kids even that would solve the logistics.
So any advice? Start the hard 180 and pretend he isn't living here?
He would get that the OW is not a friend, friend of the M or in any way healthy to have in his life.
Everything I'm reading tells me he's selfish, he doesn't get it. His actions aren't matching his words. IME, you're facing another d-day sooner or later. With this OW or another...because a WS that doesn't truly own their actions and deal with their issues is much more likely to cheat again.
If you show him you'll accept little, that's what he'll give you. If you don't value yourself enough to insist on a true M, devoid of the OW and focused on the hard work of R, he will not value you either.
It's hard, I know. What you accept now is the best you will get...is it what you're willing to live with for the rest of your life?
I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.
I am sorry Arnold01. You are not in R. You have not been in R. Your WH has simply been nice to you to prove to himself that he is a great guy. He has not faced the reality of what he has done. He was not being nice because he was concerned about you.
Yes, talking to OW means he is still in a relationship with her. Do you want to be in a marriage of 3 people?
He is still in his fog and doesn't get it. Protect yourself. He is not remorseful or he wouldn't do this...he is regretful that he got caught. There is a big difference. Remorse would not have broken NC and would not continue to be friends.
Staying friends isn't an option. Period. Not up for discussion. I would probably tell him he needs to find somewhere else to stay for the night.
Nothing kills an A faster then getting both BS's on the same page. Don't believe what your WS or the OW are saying, they are trying to do everything they can to make this "OK" to be friends. You need to contact the OBS without your WS knowing and find out what is really going on.
And since you are the bread winner I would REALLY go talk to an attorney to know your rites.
You can do it.
Tell the other spouse and do it today.
You can do this, ((Arnold01))!
He doesn't get it, and he won't until he has some consequences. He is sitting on the fence and eating cake. Of course he's been nice to you all along, he's been able to keep in contact with her, and the fact that he continues to believe that this acceptable shows how deep in the fog he is.
I am angry for you.
He wants to have you fall back in line, and not talke about it, so he can continue to do what he wants. This will not help you, or your M. It can be tough to make some of the decisions you face, but many of us have been in the same boat and we have survived it.
You need to do a few things and since he is blissfully unaware you have the option of doing them without his knowledge which may have more impact on him when you do pull the trigger.
I would strongly recommend that you see a D lawyer or 2, and get info on how you can expect this thing to play out should he not get it. Find out what your rights are, and what to expect financially. Next you need to implement the 180, and while doing that figure out what your line in the sand is, and prepare yourself to follow through.
YOU do not deserve to be a choice, YOU do not deserve to be disrespected to this level. YOU are the one who can change it.
I often remind members that you can't force someone to do something that you want, however you can make things very difficult for them should they continue to behave in a way that is detrimental to you, and your marriage.
You know what really struck me when I read this part of your post - ITS ALL ABOUT HIM - he said...he said..
The only part where I agree with him is overanalyzing everything - if there is one thing I learned with my H is that all the "talking" really does nothing - talk is cheap - its so easy to say anything - lets take a look at his actions...thats what you need to listen to-
And that's all he'll listen to also - is YOUR ACTIONS.
Your H can do whatever he wants - its all in how YOU react to it - thats all you can control.
I have to say...I am so angry for you - he's really an idiot who just doesn't get it - and no amount of heart-felt conversations is going to change that-
I love how he didn't feel the need to be a team when he decided to break NC, but now it is "we" (read ME) that has to be the bad guy and insist on NC.
Oh, Honey, do I hear ya!! In my WH's good-bye my lover letter, which I wasn't supposed to see, he made it clear that *I* (Read horrible, nasty, evill wife) was the one who blocked her on FB and deleted her number from his phone. Amazing how we are the bad ones just because we want to uphold our marriage vows!
I'm so sorry you re going through this!