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How is this even possible?

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ceilingwalker posted 8/4/2013 15:31 PM

This is a goofy question and if folks view it as inappropriate I will delete it, but I have to ask: I had someone once tell me that some men enjoy watching their wives with other men! After seeing mine with another, it didn't excite me, it made me want to hang myself! How is it possible that people enjoy crap like that? A man would have to have absolutely no REAL love for his wife, to enjoy something like that. Just my $.02.

Missymomma posted 8/4/2013 15:38 PM

I think it is a kind of sick perversion. Someone that doesn't see their wife as a person but as a plaything. I would have to leave my WH if he ever suggested anything like that. But hey, I guess I am just old fashioned!

ceilingwalker posted 8/4/2013 16:40 PM

I guess I am just old fashioned!

I think this goes way beyond old fashioned however, there is NOTHING wrong wit old fashioned, to me.

Pippy posted 8/4/2013 16:46 PM

Voyeurism is a type of porn. A wise SIer posted...

"The behaviors you have described (sneaking porn daily) lead to isolation, fantasy building, and lying. The primary problem, other than objectifying other humans, is that it interfers with intimate emotional bonding in a relationship." by startingover62

PolyGal posted 8/4/2013 18:23 PM

Some people are in to that sort of thing... therefore it is possible.

Different people are into different things, sometimes unusual or difficult to understand. But hey if all the people involved are ok with it, who's to judge it?

(spoken by someone who is, well, into that sort of thing, and tends to associate with others who are as well, and damn we have a good time; the important thing is to keep it above board, don't push or pressure, make sure everyone involved is ok, etc., but yes it's possible, and no I don't feel shame about it)

If you seriously want to discuss it, I'm open to that, as someone who is nonmonogamous, has played with other couples, has done some swinging, has "borrowed" other women's men with their encouragement, has invited others (men and women) into my bed with my partners, has had threesomes with two men and me, who has had male partners (including my WH) who have invited other men to be with me while they participated, etc., but if it's really a rhetorical question that you don't actually want to discuss, that's cool, I won't talk about it anymore. I'm here for support and to offer support, not to be shamed for doing things different. It might be a perversion, but it's a fun one under the right circumstances with the right people.

Definitely not something I would recommend to people who aren't into it. But clearly I don't think there is anything wrong with it for people who are.

c6284x posted 8/4/2013 19:04 PM

Good for you PolyGal don't take any crap.
I think the thing for most of us it is the betrayal, it was done without our knowledge, we weren't part of the equation. It seems like swingers are more secure in their relationship. I know myself if another man smiled at my ex I would feel threatened, and then someone did much more and it killed me. Maybe if I was more secure it would not have hurt so bad.

ArableSands posted 8/4/2013 19:10 PM


As PolyGirl pointed out, some folks are fine with it. They see it as consensual adult fun.

It differs from the horror of your experience because swingers (for example) are in it for the sex and not to replace their spouses in any way shape or form with another person. I'm not into swinging myself, but I'm not sexually jealous in that if my wife was a porn star previous to being with me it wouldn't bother me.

It's the horror of the betrayal of shared intimacy that is so crushing, so devastating. The lying, the deceit, the treating us as worthless. That's the crux.

Missymomma posted 8/4/2013 19:42 PM

I am not coming from a place of judgment. I am coming from a place of only knowing sex addicts that have behaved this way. So maybe I am a little biased, as I have seen lives wrecked by this kind of behavior. Spouses that have been pushed into "swinging" and show up in meetings devastated. So, I am definitely biased.

DecadeCentrifuge posted 8/4/2013 21:45 PM

Uhhh... yeah, I still have "REAL love" for my wife and I am into that. It's completely different than the betrayal of infidelity. If there are no lies, there is no betrayal.

I grow weary of people telling me how much I do or do not love my wife. It would be kinda cool if folks actually asked questions before assuming those who are different are subject to "sick perversions".

For the life of me I can't figure out why people profess to enjoy Mountain Dew, but I don't assume they're all damaged pervos.

[This message edited by DecadeCentrifuge at 9:56 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

jo2love posted 8/4/2013 22:00 PM

I have read in prior posts that some people enjoy being in an open or swinging relationship. That type of relationship is not for me, but everyone is different.

That said. You were not in that type of relationship. So walking in on your wife with someone else must have been shocking and incredibly painful.


Kierst13 posted 8/4/2013 22:16 PM

It seems like swingers are more secure in their relationship.

The swinging community wants the vanilla world to believe this, but it simply isn't true. Those in the swing lifestyle cheat and betray just as often as all other segments of couples in society, they aren't enlightened when it comes to marital happiness, the just enjoy sex with people other than their spouse.

PolyGal posted 8/4/2013 23:23 PM

Cool, I'm not the only one :) It's actually a huge turn on for me to share partners and always has been, though I understand that there is a big, big difference between walking in on it and seeing it unexpectedly, and agreeing to make it part of a relationship. I understand that this could be considered a perversion in the literal sense, that it is different, not the norm. I don't think that I am "sick," I only involve with others who are of mindset similar to my own, keep it all above board, and I don't play with cheaters (I've turned down plenty). I also don't go to swing clubs or other anonymous sorts of things, though I don't judge those who do. It's not my scene. I like to know the people I play with, and understand their reputation, and know who their partners are. I personally know men who go to swingers clubs as a single man just to cheat on their partner at home, and that is not what I'm into.

I think that many swingers/poly people are more secure in their relationship because they have to be, because it can force a lot of communication that might not normally have happened, and because they are less likely to be codependent, but having been in this lifestyle for a long time, I've seen a lot of unhealthy situations, a lot of people pressured, a lot of people who have left their existing relationship to shack up with someone else... it does happen (hell I guess it's what's happening to me, though I don't blame the lifestyle). And it can complicate things. When it's done right, it is very free-ing. It's hard to describe. It can greatly enhance a relationship (again if done right). I've managed to become a part of a very close-knit group of friends, people who do all the normal things that people do with friends, like help them move and celebrate birthdays and watch each others' pets when we're out of town. We also happen to swap partners sometimes or play in groups, and yeah it's fun. And there is a lot of trust in our group, and we all play safe and get tested regularly. New people come and go (no pun intended), but the core group has known each other for years. And when someone new is brought in it is because someone in the group knows them and thought they would be a good fit. Reputation is very meaningful in this group, and being ethical is important for those who want to stay.

In my situation, the cheating happened with someone my WH and I were both seeing at the time (we're technically polyamorous, so while we do some swinging/orgy sort of activity, we also have full-on relationships outside our marriage), and it happened via them failing to use protection and agreeing to lie to me about it (about five years ago... when I first came on these boards). And although my husband and I were on the verge of full R, having been separated this whole time but basically dating each other for the past 3.5 years and getting ready to move back in with each other, I just found out that he's lying to me again, about meeting up with a couple for sex, a couple that I don't know about, and that he hasn't told me about or admitted about. So who knows what else he's been lying to me about. Our rules are that we tell each other. I did ask him directly about what he did that night and he said he stayed in to recover from a busy week at work. So here we go again, and this time I'm done.

All he had to do was tell me, and if it was going to be ongoing, for me to meet them just to make sure all was cool, and he couldn't manage that. Which is why I'm back on the boards because I'm about 90% sure we're headed for divorce now. There really, really needs to be trust in a marriage, regardless of whether or not arrangements are made for outside activities, and ArableSands hit the nail on the head - it's the lying, the betrayal that is crushing, the failing to consider me and the very few rules that we set up to be successful in this lifestyle.

@missymomma thanks for the clarification and recognizing probable bias. I know some people who would meet that description... I don't play with them. As for me, I probably have sex about four times per month (in fact being poly has helped a lot with this, since my partners can get their needs met away from me when I'm working long hours or otherwise too tired for sex, it really takes pressure off me to perform), it's all I have time for because I have a really demanding career, and when I go to parties with my group of people I sometimes go just to talk and catch up and don't play at all. But I am very much a hedonist, and I guess in the interest of shared values in relationships and friendships I tend to primarily be involved with other hedonists as friends and lovers. Anyway yes there are sex addicts who do this, though there are a lot of people are aren't sex addicts that do this. I would probably have more sex if I had more time for it.

@c6248x for me, it depends on the person. If someone I don't like is going after one of my partners, it does incite jealousy. If someone I know and trust goes after one of my partners, we've usually already discussed it and know that it's all good, and then I smile knowing my partner is having fun with someone else I care about because it's usually a mutual friend, or another established girlfriend that I've met and that we're aware of each other.

@DecadeCentrifuge... one of us, one of us Sometimes I feel like I love my partners even more when I see them so happy with someone else. And then they come to me and, eh, share the love. Personally I couldn't be with someone who expected total monogamy from me, I'm not wired that way, so I just don't mess with monogamous people. I like the option of screwing my friends but it isn't required for friendship, we just all understand the boundaries and clarify as needed. My husband and I would work great if he weren't lying to me. I also have a boyfriend who isn't a lying bastard, I always know what/who he is doing, and I always have an opportunity to express any concerns, which he listens to without accusing me of trying to control him. Unlike my husband. And I also have a girlfriend, who is married to a man, I don't play with him but we know and trust each other. She is now mostly monogamous, I am the only "outside" partner she has, I was grandfathered into their arrangement because I was involved with her long before he came around (I've been with her for six years, he's been with her for two), and because I respect their marriage as their priority. I don't mind taking a back seat, I'm just happy to see her so in love, and treated well by a great guy, and grateful that he trusts me and allows us to still play together, and if she felt that it would be best to transition to "just friends" I would abide by that because I love her and I am respectful. Mostly though I babysit their kids (we're discreet with the kids, they know me as a close family friend) and watch their dog when they're out of town and hang out with them, the relationship is hardly about sex, they have tons of it, she and I might only get down and dirty twice a year. And it's all good, because at the root of all this filthiness is genuine care for the people in our lives, and wanting what is best for them and their happiness.

I have a beautiful photograph... it is me, my husband, my girlfriend, my boyfriend, and a now-ex-boyfriend (who was also a boyfriend at the time), all standing with me when I graduated with my bachelor's degree, all of them having supported me emotionally through school, sometimes financially in a pinch, all of them hanging out with each other, all of them aware of the others' role in my life, all of us just smiling on a day that was important for me. No sex involved, just love. Real love.

I still don't understand how my husband managed to screw this up. Again. At least I have a strong support network because I have a feeling I will need it. But I guess I'm so used to spending so much time alone, it isn't like the first time, when we were living together. The first time, it was like my whole world was ripped out from under my feet. This time, I'm just disappointed with him and looking forward to moving on. I still love him, I suspect I always will, but I love myself too, and I deserve better.

TattoodChinaDoll posted 8/5/2013 00:22 AM

Men cheat. Women cheat. Boyfriends/girlfriends cheat. Husbands/wives cheat. What is it that makes the cheating? The lying...the hiding...the abuse...the lack of respect...throwing away I need to go on? What is it that we want?, I think you get my point). I don't think how you prefer your sex has anything to do with that as long as communication is open and all those things that I listed about cheating isn't happening. Do I want to do what PolyGal does? No. It's not for me. But seriously, some of the things I enjoy sexually are considered "perverse." Doesn't mean that I'm destined to be a WS.

ETA: I know you are hurting. I know that you were venting because what you saw was traumatic. I'm sorry that is what you experienced and my hope for you is that you get help you need to learn how to deal with this shit sandwich you were handed. I definitely suggest IC. Maybe look into EMDR. Don't stuff your feelings but definitely learn how to not let them ruin you.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 12:25 AM, August 5th (Monday)]

SBB posted 8/5/2013 06:17 AM

That said. You were not in that type of relationship. So walking in on your wife with someone else must have been shocking and incredibly painful.

^^THIS. Big time.

There is a huge difference between being a willing participant and either being an unwilling or unwitting participant.

My guy having sex with someone else didn't turn me on or off. I didn't even consider it a possibility in my M (well, I did I just didn't think he'd actually be fucked up enough to do it).

I've thought of me having sex with lots of other people in ways I know I wouldn't enjoy IRL. I don't consider that a kink, just a vivid fantasy life.

Him hurting me didn't turn me on or off - it just plain hurt.

Affairs are not about mutual arousal or exploration.

Affairs are about secrets, compartmentalisation, lies, deceit, disrespect and a complete lack of self-respect or self-love on behalf of the wayward - amongst many other things.

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