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RemorsefulWH posted 8/14/2013 15:42 PM

This is a bit of an expanded explanation relating to my post 'Another detail not given'. Details are a deal breaker for my BS and 18 months since D day I still can't give them all. Because of this I will be leaving tomorrow for a few days initially at the request of my BS.
I am expecting to be told it doesn't sound right, that I'm lying etc but this is genuine.
I can not recall 99% of any dialogue with the 3 x OW's, I can say it was 'like this' or 'not this' or this type of text e.g sexting. But i cant give any detail. This includes texts, e mails, chat messages and actual conversations.
This in itself is fairly unbelievable but to make matters worse when i finally admitted to the last physical contact and started to give the detail, I couldn't recall a conversation I had had with a third party 10 days earlier and still can't.
I have tried hypnotherapy which did help with some information, thinking for hours, days, weeks, putting myself back in the situation, writing my timeline....but I am getting no where, all the while torturing my wife. I want and need this information to stand some chance of getting out of limbo so am posting to see the responses of both BS's and WS's who might be able to share ideas or similar stories.
Thanks in advance.

stilllovinghim posted 8/14/2013 17:09 PM

Are you on any meds? Have you stopped or started any drugs or meds the past several months? How's your alcohol intake? Be perfectly honest. Don't be ashamed because there may be an answer in there.

How are you at handling stress? Not too good I take you tend to forget details you know are important? You're "there" but not? Does your mind wander a lot? These are key. Once again, don't be ashamed at your answers, it's worth investigating.

Also, have you thought about a poly?

ETA: Is your W asking verbatem what was said?

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 5:15 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

heartache101 posted 8/14/2013 18:15 PM

I didn't want to hear details. Those were his burdens to carry not mine. Just me.

Look I can't remember crap myself. But I like the other poster stating what meds you on and alchol etc.etc.

I would think if I was sexting and chatting other persons up I would know somewhat what I said. Just my thought on that and I am sure your Bss too..

Good luck.

RemorsefulWH posted 8/15/2013 01:50 AM

stilllovinghim - no meds either back then or now. Alcohol intake is average now and only with BS, although was frequent and significant whilst away from home and behaving this way. Not an excuse though and lots of the dialogue was sober.
On the surface of it I deal well with stress, particularly at work, but my BS has noticed a very clear pattern in my behaviour coinciding with stressful occasions in my personal life.
I wouldn't say my mind wonders a lot but I do struggle to take things in, when reading I often have to reread things to understand. Listening and taking things in has been an issue for years and is something I'm acutely aware of now and working on.
I did a poly early after d day and passed despite lying, I think the issue was the person/equipment doing the test, they are far less widely used in the UK and I have my doubts about their reliability here.

My BS doesn't expect word for word but can understandably not believe that I can send in excess of 1000 text messages and not be able to give more than the general 'gist' of the messages.

You have raised some interesting questions though and would appreciate thoughts on my answers. Thank you

Heartache101 - couldn't agree more, there are no excuses, I'm at a loss myself as to why I don't know

Thanks again

Scubachick posted 8/15/2013 02:11 AM

My husband is the same way but he's always like that. It doesn't help that I didn't find out until 6 mths after the fact so he really has problems trying to remember. It does bother me a lot because betraying your wife is a big deal and it seems like those times times would be ingrained in your memory but I guess not. You seem to have tried really hard to give her the info. Does she recognize your effort?

RemorsefulWH posted 8/15/2013 02:20 AM

Scubachick - most of these things occurred years ago but I have TTd throughout so my wife's confidence in anything I say is simply gone.

AStar posted 8/15/2013 02:21 AM

My WH is the same - unclear on some of the details. I need them the specifics or it outline.
When he contradicts himself, it drives me crazy because it feels like he is lying to me.
It's not easy RWH. Hang in there and if it is want you want, do everything you can to save your M.

Silentthoughts posted 8/15/2013 09:51 AM

I am like you also, I can't remember details of my online conversations, just the gist off etc. But I will say I am like that normally, my BH will tell a story About sometime years ago in our m - good memories- and I can't remember. Is this foggy memory A related or have you always been like that?

RemorsefulWH posted 8/15/2013 14:52 PM

Thanks for your replies, they are helping me analyse better whether this is just an A issue or a general problem.
Silentthoughts - it's a good point you raise, I set reminders in my calendar for absolutely everything, to set an alarm, take the bin out, BS used to joke I'd forget to breath without my reminders. My memory is hazy with a lot of things and my BS has always said I don't listen (which I am working on), but perhaps my memory is more of an issue than I/we realised. In fact my calendar stopped working earlier today and I was panicking that I'd forget something.

stilllovinghim posted 8/15/2013 15:06 PM

Pardon me if I missed it, are you in IC or any kind of therapy? I'm by no means a professional, though it sounds like you could have ADD or ADHD. Alcohol can have an effect on memory especially when abused for long periods of time.

The suck part of all of this is no matter what, your W won't be able to trust you for a long time. If ever. I had on more than one occasion my H tell me that I said or did this or that and years later I still can't recall it. Friends have told me the same. I feel like shit for it and it makes it worse when you can't remember the offending act because to the other person you're not fully absorbing the damage you unleashed. However, you DO feel it and you feel even worse for not remembering. Its a fucked game of mental tug-o-war.

I just had to get myself to the point to where no matter how much I wanted to deny the words or act due to faulty memory, I just had to accept it. My H was hurt. Who cares if I was right or wrong? Just because I couldn't remember it happening didn't mean it didn't occur.

I'm not saying the scenario above exactly applies to you, but maybe in some ways it does.

If you aren't in personal therapy, get in there. If you find a good IC, they may be able to help you unlock some of the lost thoughts or understand certain things.

I don't feel from your posts that you're trying to excuse your behaviors and I really do feel that your trying and working. I do. However, if drinking or drugs or FOO trauma were a possible contributing factor than its worth looking into. Its not an excuse but merely a tool to help understand and heal.

RemorsefulWH posted 8/15/2013 15:43 PM

stilllovinghim - we are onto our second MC as we weren't happy with the first and I have attended IC sessions, although I was still TTing with the first MC and IC. We started sessions again recently but my BS no longer wants to continue with these as she feels there is very little point until I can provide more details on the messages etc. I plan to look into a new IC or discussing IC with our MC in the next couple of days, although ethically in the UK they dont like to see you as an MC and IC, so would need to check my BS's thoughts on this in case she wants to go back to the MC together at a later date. I haven't abused alcohol although there were regular nights out binge drinking whilst away with work, which is a form of abuse in itself.
Part of the problem with any "I don't know" answers is that this was often the answer I gave whilst lying. I have even attempted guessing at what could be the worst, most painful things I could have said but this simply isn't good enough. After all the lies my BS needs something to come from ME and not her searching or asking others, another I don't know might as well be another betrayal.

stilllovinghim posted 8/15/2013 16:10 PM

Try telling her something like, " I'm sorry at this time I really don't remember. I will do everything I can to recall and give you all the information that I remember. I know this is painful to you. Please know that I'm not intentionally lying. I just can't remember at this time. I will no longer tell you I don't know as it's insufficient and isn't good enough because it isnt. I'm not asking for you to give me answers, I'm just asking if there are any specifics that you know, maybe you could tell me to help me recall."

Something along those lines. Make sure to acknowledge her pain. Do not give her any more "I don't knows". If you called customer service and asked a question and all you got in return was a bunch of "I don't knows" you'd be a bit pertured, right? However if the person on the other end stated that they didn't have an answer but that they would gladly get back with you as soon as they had one or offer future assistance, you'd give them a chance.

Now don't just leave it at that. Write down what she's wanting. Look through old texts, emails, phone logs, anything you have. Look at calendars. Try to figurr out how to spark your memory. Let her know in advance that if something pops into your head you'll let her know immediately. Sometimes when I would have some clarity and not be under a cloud of stress, sometimes something weird and random would just pop in. Something I completely forgot about so I'd take the opportunity and try to remember as much as I could. I'd then go to my H and tell him.

Anyway, have you thought about if you had any FOO that could play a role in this? Like, during turmoil you'd kinda tune the world out?

RemorsefulWH posted 8/15/2013 17:01 PM

I have tried words to this effect and your suggestion is much appreciated, although much like I don't knows, I haven't intentionally has become a big issue for my BS. Coupled with the fact that on various occasions I have asked for time and achieved no recall my BS is rightly holding out little hope.
My wife (and I) have been through old phone bills, even requesting from old phone companies, calendars, work expenses, hypnotherapy, Facebook...everything and yet this very significant piece of the jigsaw is missing.
In terms of FOO, on the surface looks like very little but my mother has told my BS that my father cheated early in their relationship (I think this was sometime before I was born) and I have barely seen a cross word between them in my life time that i would know of. I do however know my family can be quite closed and pretend significant issues are barely there at times. My BS has certainly spotted a pattern with a lot of my behaviour that links with major stresses in our lives that I seemed to tune out from when they were happening - I was there but not there.

Thanks for your replies.

stilllovinghim posted 8/15/2013 17:49 PM

Sounds like you are on to something then. You block things and some times it could be intentional and other times not. It's part of a defense mechanism. Now how to uncover some of the blocked things, that takes an expert.

My H has years completely erased from his mind from a traumatic childhood. Once in a while on a rare occasion he'll recall something but that was only after he realized that he had blocked so much out.

Its a process. Your W is going to have to make a decision as to how long she's willing to work on this. She needs to also work on herself and find healthy outlets. She's also going to have to figure out what she will do with the information once (if) it ever surfaces. What will she do if it's never revealed?

Its kind of hard at this point to really suggest anything else since I'm not aware of the full story and what she's wanting exactly. What has the counselor or therapist said in regards to all of this? What do they feel would be the best solution? Also, taking another poly is another suggestion maybe this time have it done by someone else. I think maybe a lot of therapy for the both of you, individually, is vital right now.

RemorsefulWH posted 8/16/2013 11:55 AM

Thanks for your help, I think it has helped me develop a better understanding of the issue, although that isn't really what my BS needs right now. In terms of time I'm not sure my BS can work on this for much longer and tonight will be my second consecutive night at my parents as she has asked me to leave for a few nights.
If I don't get anything, then I think she may be done, which is devastating for both of us and our DD.
To be honest I think our MC thinks my BS is done. I spoke to him earlier and he suggested some relaxation techniques but feels that there is either something subconscious within me that is blocking this information (which is believable) or I need to see someone with very specific knowledge of this type of issue. I am going to continue trying to contact others.
Another poly is a good suggestion but would only aid in proving that I don't know, which wouldn't supply the detail my BS needs, I also doubt my BS would have any real confidence in the process now anyway. Thanks again.

stilllovinghim posted 8/16/2013 12:07 PM

I'm sorry I couldn't be of much help.
Please don't give up though! No matter the outcome! Continue to work! You have such great potential. Please stay and post and read here at SI. Vent if you need to. It is safe. Please let me or anyone else here know if you or your W need help. This isn't the end, okay? Please know that.

I will keep your family in my prayers.

kickboxer posted 8/16/2013 13:26 PM

As a BW, I can't rationalize how my WH seems to remember every lyric to every song he's ever he knows random sports stats and player info and uncommon game his brain is full of information that relies on memory function, yet he can't seem to remember the answers to the questions I have.

I just posted about this during a sleepless night earlier this morning.

Scubachick posted 8/16/2013 14:05 PM

I have ADD and have a horrible short term memory. Especially if it's something that doesn't interest me. Sometimes I will tell someone something and the next day have no memory of it whatsoever. That's why I love text messaging. If I don't think about it or write it down, I won't remember it. Even when I do remember something like a conversation, It doesn't come out right when I try to explain it. I have no concept of time, distance or dates. When something really interests me, I hyper focus and don't hear or see anything going on around me. Can you relate to any of these things?

RemorsefulWH posted 8/16/2013 14:51 PM

Kickboxer - your post made me feel sick to my stomach knowing my BS has had many of these questions and initially I lied but the physical acts and all of the times, dates, locations and number of texts have been answered now through a lot of work from my BS and less from myself I'm ashamed to say. It's the message details that I really struggle with and in some instances whether I even sent a message at all. Strangely the song lyrics thing is something I too can recall. I'm sorry that you and my BS are going through this pain.

Scuba - these examples don't really relate to me, but I have just done an on line test which, although clearly isn't a diagnosis, shows moderate ADD. This has caught me completely off guard to be honest and is something I need to look into much more. Thanks for your help.

kickboxer posted 8/17/2013 11:04 AM

Thank you for your sensitivity. I know my WH doesn't want to get angry with me, but he does. I can't talk about his affairS or ask questions without it turning into an(other) emotional conversation that ends up being fueled by rage.

So we move from one day to the questions feel blown off as though they're insignificant...which may not be reality, but that's how it feels. Sometimes I get insight to the information I'm trying to reconcile in my mind. Most of the time I don't.

Please be patient with her. If "I don't remember" really is the answer, recognize how hard that is for her to hear...and recognize that she may ask over and over and over and over (ad nauseum), because part of her will always wonder if the memory will ever recover so she can get the answers she feels she needs.

Best wishes on the road ahead. I hope you're both able to find peace, recovery, and a renewed devotion to each other on the other side.

[This message edited by kickboxer at 11:07 AM, August 17th (Saturday)]

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