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I was mulling over infidelity-related stuff this weekend, as I tend to do.

I see on here all the time where BS say that they never cheated, even though they had an opportunity to do so. I've been hit on as a married woman, but always by creeps. Not anyone I'd be interested as if I were single.

So I started wondering, what's wrong with me that I have never had these "opportunities" that other people seem to have frequently? Am I a troll? Or is it some sort of TAKEN vibe I send out? And what's wrong with me that this bothers me?? Shouldn't I be GLAD? What's wrong with me that I feel like it's a bad reflection on me that I haven't had this experience, when in reality these experiences should be offensive to me?

Then I had the REALLY shitty realization. I think what would have stopped me, in the past, from cheating is the fear of the consequences. Not the wrongness of it. But the fear of the fallout. That gave me pause, big time. What was wrong with me, that that would have been the thing that stopped me? Not THIS IS WRONG, but THIS WILL BLOW UP IN MY FACE.

Of course, I can't go back and occupy my brain as it was in my 20s, but looking back, I think that's a true assessment of where I was mentally.

That's messed up.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 2:11 PM, August 19th (Monday)]

I've had some if these thoughts as well. I don't get hit on really at all. But here's the thing, outside of my H and close friends, my boundaries are always up. I keep my distance from co-workers and employees and I don't have any really close guy friends. I always considered H my best friend so I never needed that kind of attention from others even if I thought it would be nice once in a while. Obviously he didn't feel the same way. He's always had girl friends and loved the attention. It hurts that I was not enough for him but I'm slowly understanding why he's like that.

Maybe it's just that you don't put yourself into those situations so often that statistically you don't have to deal with: A PENIS APPEARS! DO YOU WANT TO A) FIGHT B) FLEE C) LOL

I have fallen into situations like that to some extent. I accidentally picked up a prostitute outside a 7-11 once. Or she was trying to rob and kill me, I dunno. Also I think back to the number of times as a teenager I was alone in some girls bedroom after she'd invited me over to talk about XYZ and her parents were gone, and I talked about XYZ until she just went and got the phone or something that I like to believe it's another one of those not seeing what's really there. Because if you do see it, you're probably looking for it.

Also, you seem to have a pretty regular thing with being worried about your looks. You are probably going to have a half dozen ladies come along and tell you how you aren't a troll (I admit you have Green in your name and the old school AD&D trolls are Green but I have a hard time imagining you as something that requires fire or acid to kill unless you want to end up with 2 of you) but maybe you should talk to an IC or something about it if you aren't able to feel like that with your H? I grok not feeling attractive, I mean I have a belly you could paint orange with a red stripe and a star and nobody would take me for a Sneetch, and after being cheated on off and on it sucks, but no matter how much I work out I won't look like The Rock. I did get mistaken for Indiana Jones at Disneyworld though, but that's probably because I put my hat on my face on the bus to sleep. I lie to myself and say it's because I am dashing but I would probably really just be the skeleton stuck in the spear trap.. no, actually, I would just buy all the pigs from the village I hired the guides from and herd them ahead of me instead. If they got speared, bacon AND the trap is sprung.

Anyway. Sorry. Fear of consequences isn't a bad thing to have as a crutch in the moment, since we can be stupid in the moment. THIS WILL BLOW UP IN MY FACE means you are thinking about WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WILL FIND OUT because IT WILL HURT OR ANGER THEM IF THEY DO after YOU KNOW YOU WILL FUCK UP KEEPING A SECRET so OH MY GOD I DONT WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE carries connotations of BECAUSE I LOVE/LIKE/WANT THE RESPECT OF CERTAIN PEOPLE and even if it doesn't, it's at least a bullet in the moment to kill it so you can examine it at leisure later.

Sorry, I don't know why I can't keep it to like 50 words or less today.

So unlike you guys I have had an opportunity to have a door to open.....a big one with a nice man that would have even been better suited to me then my husband. It started as a friendship, just like my H's a and we supported each other while both of our spouses were happily doing something else. In his case his wife was a high profile trial lawyer, in mine he traveled relentlessly. We even discussed the possibilities of an A but we both realized that to go to that level would break the bond of trust not only between us and our spouses but us with ourselves. I held back and even removed myself from the proximity of the situation when I knew either of us was getting beyond our acceptable limits.

I have shared this entire story with my H. He knows the man involved. our children played soccer together with each other for years. We are all still friends, good friends. This is the man I turned to to get a male prospective 2 days after I discovered the A. He was shocked that my hubby would ever be able to do that to me but he was not only supportive but he is the reason why I stayed put and tried to work it through with my H. My H has a lot to learn from this man about not being selfish. He knew he could cross a line with me but neither of us wanted to hurt our families or our spouses. Sometimes you just have to man or woman up and realize you will meet so many people during your life time and you WILL be attracted to a few of them. You just have to know what is important to you when you do.

T

I don't get hit on or feel like I get a second look from other men. I used to be bothered a lot more by it when I was single. A friend once told me that it was how I carried myself. She said that when I walk in to a place (bar at the time) that I gave off the I have a boyfriend vibe.

I also suffer from BRF...bitchy resting face.

I still have times when I feel like it is because I'm unattractive but at the same time I'm married now so I guess it really shouldn't matter.

But having been in the position of opportunity and unfortunately taking it (while engaged). I will say that in the moment you don't really think about the consequences. Of course being impaired by alcohol helps the lack of thinking things through.

[This message edited by Nohopeleft at 3:00 PM, August 19th (Monday)]

Gosh, this thread has made me realize a few things. For one, I wouldn't cheat because of consequences, unless they are my own. I wouldn't cheat because I love my husband, and love to me, is not a feeling, its a way of treating another person... Because I love him and my values reflect what I think about love, the question has already been answered.

Before I was a WW I probably didn't even think about this or for certain thought of love as an "in love feeling." And now, I know it's not. I read somewhere recently that love is keeping your promises, even when you don't want to keep them - something like that.

So, I guess growth for me. Thank you for posting!

BRF -

No Hope, I DID cheat - emotionally - on a boyfriend while in college. It was definitely a case where I let myself get too close. I ended up ending the relationship with my boyfriend after convincing myself I wasn't happy (I wasn't - but it was because of me, not him). I did see how quickly things could get to a place I didn't intend. I guess maybe that made me standoffish with other men during my marriage (I mean, as in not flirty - I am friendly.) Not on a conscious level . . . maybe somewhere deep down I had a fear of things getting out of control?

Also, you seem to have a pretty regular thing with being worried about your looks.

Yes, I do. It makes me feel sort of ashamed, because it's such a vapid, shallow, self-centered thing to worry about. And I'm the mother of a daughter - I want her to know that her worth isn't based on her looks. And although I don't call myself troll in front of her, or use the f(at)-word, I know kids are perceptive.

I wish my insurance hadn't changed on January 1st. My beloved former IC is now $70/session.

I feel MUCH better about myself than I used to. I guess it's a process, feeling good in my skin.

StillGoing, I always get a kick out of your replies. Please NEVER limit yourself to 50 words or less!

Thank you everyone for replying! I was afraid I'd get flamed for posting this. I often times identify a LOT with wayward thought processes.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 3:20 PM, August 19th (Monday)]

I don't think its a matter of boundaries. I don't think it is self control.

I think it is that people who are 'looking' give off a certain vibe - hold a glance just a second longer - etc. If you're not 'looking', you don't give off those vibes.

I'm pretty sure that any of us - even those of us (me) who aren't thrilled with our looks - could get hit on many times - IF we put our selves 'out there'.

But we don't. That's the difference.

I don't know about you, Jana, but I can tell you what occurs with me: before my marriage ended, I simply did not NOTICE when I was being hit on. Seriously, my friends (or even Mr. Trac-Fone) had to tell me, "ooh! he was hitting on you!"

In addition to being generally oblivious, I also gave off a strong not-available vibe.

Now that I'm available, this is changing. I have no idea how, it just seems organic.

So no, it's not because you're a troll. Because you're most assuredly not.

It's because you haven't positioned yourself to engage with other men in that way.

Roughly translated: your boundaries are strong.

I guess what I'm examining is - is the reason they are strong a good, admirable reason?

I mean, I guess if you donate $20 to charity because you want to help people, or if you donate $20 to charity because you want people to think you're generous, the charity still gets $20, right?

I've struggled with this. People think I'm so nice, so sweet. But I always feel like I'm nice because I want people to like me. My mom, she doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about her, but she still buys Christmas presents for poor children that she encounters through her work. To me, she's more genuinely nice than me, because her motives are more pure. Does that make sense?

Are you a total bitch to the people you don't give half a shit about? Like "BITCH I SAID I WANTED A FUCKING DIET COKE" and then you throw the silverware at the waitress as she retreats behind the counter at Denny's, but you don't leave it there you get up while she's trying not to sob and you throw those little mini-moo creamer things at her shouting obscenities like THATS RIGHT COW I SAID DIET COKE, then you definitely have some suspect motives.

If you don't give an actual fuck about the people you are donating to, but are doing it wholly for the acknowledgement that you're awesome then you have some suspect motives.

If you do nice things because you want to be a good person and are worried that people may not think you're a good person, you're just insecure.

I SAID UNSWEETENED TEA! WHAT IS THIS SHIT??!!?

omg im sorry brb w/ur t

**ducks flying creamer**

I went through a period where I got hit on all.the.time. Looking back, it was near the time of my spouse affair. I dunno if I "felt" that or what, but I did get more flirty when out with my friends, etc. Ick. No like.

Now? Never get hit on. And I don't think it is because I am markedly less attractive than I was then. I just think I have NO vacancy sign up above my head.

You know...it's ok to not be a nice person. I used to be a nice person. I got over it. I'm nice when it matters, like to kittens and when these baby deer came by my office and in general to strangers, but I don't care if I piss people off in general. Usually, they are in the wrong for being pissed off and they get over it. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize. Meh.

That is how I want to be, Rebreather.

Mmmmm tea.

You know...it's ok to not be a nice person. I used to be a nice person. I got over it. I'm nice when it matters, like to kittens and when these baby deer came by my office and in general to strangers, but I don't care if I piss people off in general. Usually, they are in the wrong for being pissed off and they get over it. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize. Meh.

Word.

Yours is a practical way of looking at things, Jana. I never really got the nebulous 'good' 'bad' stuff. Being able to consider consequences in advance seems to me like one of several good ways to live and exhibit morality.

Guys have never really hit on me either. My H and I have been together since we were 14 and 15 so everyone always knew I was "taken" so,in retrospect, I think that vibe we give off is a reality, not just something we tell ourselves to comfort us that nobody looks at us.

I will talk like a sailor with guys if I feel comfortable with them and they all seem to really enjoy my company. That being said, I would not cross boundaries and I think they also pick up on that.

Now, when H & I were S'd for 7 months and were in process of D (which didn't end up happening) the guy I saw for 3 months would poing guys out to me that were checking me out. I think he knew I felt like guys never looked at me and wanted me to feel good. And it was true...they really were checking me out.

But now that H & I R'd, I don't notice the guys checking me out anymore. Guess that married vibe is back.

You say you never had the opportunity to cheat with a nice man.

Couple of things I have noticed since my wifes affair...

Opportunities are all around to cheat...I just never was aware of them. If I never thought there was an opportunity, I never saw it. Kind of like....If there is no devil, how can you protect yourself from him...sort of thing.

So I am willing to bet there have been opportunities right near you.

You say its only been creeps. Well, again, creeps are easy to spot...nice guys still have affairs. Perhaps some of these nice guys WERE open to cheating with you and, since you recognized them as nice guys...and your perception is creeps cheat but nice guys don't cheat, then you ruled out any opportunities you had with them because you thought they didn't exist?

Just a thought....

That's my thoughts on OPPORTUNITY.

My thoughts on some reasons why you DONT commit adultery...

Lots exist to not cheat, so very few exist to justify adultery! That's why it is hard for me to comprehend WS actions. So your reasons to not cheat may not have been the most noble of reasons...you might get caught! It was still motivation enough to refrain from committing adultery. Does it really matter in the story that is your life WHY you didn't cheat? I know it is important for our WS to determine why they DID cheat...but this is the beauty of not overthinking your reasons not to cheat. You don't harm yourself or your spouse by NOT cheating...who cares what the reasons behind NOT hurting your spouse is. You picked up something along the trail that is helping you do the right thing. So does it really matter the level of nobleness of your reasons to not cheat?

I don't think so. I feel this way because all of us are broken and imperfect. We will have less then perfect reasons to do the right thing at times. What makes one person do something is not the same motivation to make another do something.

I have seen this throughout my career....what motivates one worker to increase input hardly ever works at the same level for another. Sure it would be nice if the simple pat on the back and satisfaction of a job well done kept all workers highly motivated. But if the same involvement is had by a worker trying to get a bigger raise to provide for his family (or to buy a faster car, or...), are his actions any less important to the task at hand?

One may be more self sustaining then the other...or maybe not.

Point is you did not commit adultery.

It is good you question this about yourself. Motivations can and do change throughout life....so this might be a time when you alter what motivates you. Don't let that scare you...embrace it!

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:01 PM, August 19th (Monday)]

while she's trying not to sob and you throw those little mini-moo creamer things at her shouting obscenities like THATS RIGHT COW I SAID DIET COKE, then you definitely have some suspect motives.

Omg, this is a prime example of why I visit this forum. Seriously, you had me at mini-moo.

I need a "like" button!