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After all this time, I have not really pushed FWBF to figure out his whys.

He said that he felt like our relationship wasn't going where he wanted it to (not married yet, no kids of his own) and he didn't think it was ever going to happen so he thought he had to move on.

In my mind, this is putting the blame on me. I was the one who didn't want to get married or have a baby. I always told him he was too selfish and that he needed to grow up before I would marry and have kids, that I didn't want to marry someone who wanted to go out with his buddied to the bar, drive home drunk, and be hungover and useless all the time. He never changed that (until recently).

I have just been hoping that by working on R, he will realize that there is more to it than that. I have gotten him to read a couple books, he reads on SI sometimes, he seems really remorseful, and is trying very hard to give me what I need for R, but the other night he still said something about our relationship not going where he wanted it as his reason why he cheated.

Is it just me, or is this just a surface reason? I feel like there has to be something much deeper. I have an idea that his dad's A and marriage to the OW caused him some abandonment issues, although he denies that (but I've seen him get very emotional about it while completely shit-faced drunk). Then I quit working at the same place he worked and it probably seemed like I was moving on and abandoning him by going back to school (I didn't have much time for him, lots of studying & working part-time). Couple this with his mom babying him at every turn seems to have given him some entitlement issues also. I've mentioned this, but he just kind of blew it off. I thought maybe that even though he blew it off, it would stay in his head a little bit and he would change his "why", but apparently not.

So, I guess my question is-am I right in thinking that his "our relationship wasn't going where I wanted it to" is not a good enough "why"? And if so, how do I get him to understand that he needs to dig deeper than that? And what if he doesn't know how to dig deeper? (He is totally against IC, he says he won't go talk to a total stranger about his problems, plus financially he really can't go anyway).

Hi

You are right. NO MATTER WHAT, this was his SELFISH decision. It doesn't matter where the relationship is - he chose to cheat and that IS WRONG. If things weren't going the way he wanted them to, he should have spoken up....NOT CHEATED. It sounds to me like he is still "in the fog".

He needs to face facts and quickly before something else happens.

Look after yourself - you are who matters here. If my WS wasn't in this 100%, I don't know what I would do. He has made some colossal mistakes, but at least I know he is really trying.

Lots of thoughts are flowing your way. Take care.

Together 30 years.

2 affairs - 1 - 6mos, 1 - 3 years offandon/mostly off.

I will be stronger, I am stronger

His reason IS a surface reason. It's also full of bologna!

If he's totally opposed to IC and can't afford it anyway, get some self help books for him. One that really helped H and I (after we had already done IC, MC, Retrouvaille, more MC and IC, etc.) was the series by Dr. Harville Hendrix. It's IMAGO therapy, it really helps you dig to the root of your problems, no matter if they are infidelity related or not. He has books for couples, and a few books for individuals. I highly recommend all of them! You can find some of them at the library sometimes, just search for him by name as the author. You can also get his books through Amazon, I bought EVERY book he wrote plus all the workbooks that go with them for less than $70 on Amazon, and that was less than a counselor set us back each week anyway.

The "why" is always the same: selfish, entitled, immature behaviour and they thought they could get away with it. Period.

The "why" is always the same: selfish, entitled, immature behaviour and they thought they could get away with it. Period.

I could not completely disagree more if I tried. There is no "always" when it comes to why's. They are all different for each person, and can be in any combination as well. And honestly, the why's listed above are merely the surface reasons anyway.

I think his why is a copout. My WH spouse told me last week that if I were more emotionally and physically available, he wouldn't have the desire to cheat. That's putting the blame on me and your FWBF is doing the same. Don't accept that. now, he might not really know why he cheated though. I think that takes IC and time to figure out. IF you/he wants to R, I suggest IC for him.

Maybe he should answer the question of how having an A would get your relationship to where he claims he wanted it to be.....

Blameshifting

Sorry, I believe what I said. Whether it's because of FOO's, problems is the marriage, personality disorders, etc., the decision was made to make themselves "feel" better, at the expense of another, because of those things: selfishness, a sense of entitlement, and/or immaturity.

That's my opinion and I'm sorry if it offends. It's not meant to but the question was asked.

I've forgotten who I stole this from, but it continues to sound exactly right: people cheat to avoid facing their pain. IMO, it always comes down to that, but there are many routes to get there.

It's important to note that no 'why' will make sense, on a gut level, to a BS. The purpose some people emphasize that the WS needs to understand her 'why' is that knowing the problem should make finding a solution easier.

What I look for from my W is insight that allows her to switch from 'cheater' to 'non-cheater'. If calling herself 'selfish' is enough, fine. If 'I will now face my pain' does the trick, fine. If 'these umpteen FOO issues combined' allows her to fix herself, fine.

But I'll never understand why she didn't just say, 'No.'

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Devestated, he says that he tried to tell me that he felt that way, but I wouldn't listen. The thing is, the only times he would say anything was when I was pissed at him for something (usually staying out drinking all night) and he would be pissed off and say things that I thought were just trying to take the focus off of what he had done

doesitgetbetter, thank you so much, I will definately be looking those books up and ordering them as soon as I get the chance! He's not a big reader, so I know it will take him a while, but he'll read them if I ask him to.

sparklezombie, yes, I feel like its just a copout too. So what happens the next time he doesn't feel like we are where he wants us to be? He did tell me the other day that he has realized that he has never been a good candidate for a relationship because he has always thought of himself first. I thought that he was getting somewhere, but then he mentioned the not going where he wanted again, and I don't want to accept that.

mightsurvive, he didn't think cheating would get us anywhere-he was done. He was going to move out and in with OW. He did tell me that he cried at night when he thought about about moving out, but he figured if he wanted to be married and have any kids of his own that he had to find someone else to do it with because it wasn't happening with me.

sisoon, that's why I want him to figure this out and get to the bottom of it. I don't think anything is really going to make all this shit make sense on a gut level to me, but at least if I can make it make sense in my head, maybe I can deal a little better? And of course, finding a solution so that I will never have to go through this hell again.

Thank you so much everyone, it's good to know that I'm not thinking too much on this one (as I tend to do). I would like him to post in wayward so that they can help him dig deeper, but I just don't think he understands this part of this mess he's created.

sisoon, that's why I want him to figure this out and get to the bottom of it. I don't think anything is really going to make all this shit make sense on a gut level to me, but at least if I can make it make sense in my head, maybe I can deal a little better?

jost1125, I wrote a post yesterday on R called, Me @ 8.5 months. I should have called it,

Understanding why is not necessary in order to Accept

I am a logical, rational person. I NEED to understand. But last week I finally understood that no matter how much delving he does (and he is making his list), no matter how many times we run through that first night....I will never fully, wholly, totally GET it. It's like Sisoon said...

But I'll never understand why she didn't just say, 'No

I cannot reason this one out. It defies logic.

LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 8:30 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)]