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bytheboard posted 8/21/2013 08:43 AM

Last Friday was a very bad day for me and SAWH. He is military and there was a family PT day at his base. The kids had fun and it was nice to see him interact with them. His job is a major trigger for me as I feel that his life long career has been a huge factor in his addiction.

As we were leaving, a big trigger came up for me around a female trainer that he had previously disclosed fantasies about. Much to his credit he handled this trigger vey well with me. He addressed it I was leaving with the kids and he called me later and discussed it thoroughly. He really seemed to get all the feelings of hurt and insecurity it brought up and he was very reassuring. I felt like it was a really good step forward for us in that he showed appropriate remorse, compassion and empathy.

Things fell apart when he came home. When I left with the kids earlier, he told me he would be home around 2pm. I took the kids to the park since were out and thought I'd be home long before him. He called around 12:30 and said he was home. When we got home he was eating lunch and I was playing with the baby.

He kind of laughed and said that they were supposed to have a farewell lunch for one of the guys at his work at, catch this.... Hooter's.... But he "fell asleep at his desk while everyone was leaving so he didn't go".

I was immediately thrown into a tailspin. So many things were off here.

A) he always tells me about his upcoming lunches/ functions because I have asked him to... Trust building since his whole job makes me nervous... He didn't tell me about this one at it was at a place I would obviously have an issue with

I said this to him immediately and he became super defensive, saying he knew I would have an issue with it although "he didn't know why because people bring their kids there". So he fell asleep so he wouldn't have to go.

B) why wouldn't he just discuss this with me and why would he present it to me as " I fell asleep, so I didn't make it"? Instead of saying he didn't want to go so he made an excuse.

He also said that he never had any intentions of going because he was uncomfortable with it himself.

C) if he never had any intentions of going than why did he say that he would be home at 2pm which is when the lunch would be over?

I asked him if he had thought of going and then changed his mind. He said he " was never going to go"

So then, why the falling asleep story and saying he was going to be home at 2?

By this time he is angry and I am upset and I say I am just really confused and wish he would be straight with me. He offers two more statements as "evidence" that he never meant to go:

The first was that if he had really just fallen asleep and missed them leaving he could have met them over there instead of coming home.

The second bothered me the most. He said that I "had to know that he hadn't planned on going because he hadn't packed civilian clothes and he would've if he had planned to go. I called him on this immediately. He has been to so many of these farewell lunches since I have lived with him and he has never once packed civilian clothes. When I confronted him on this, he looked confused and said, " you know, you are right... I'm one of the only guys that gos in uniform".

By this time I really disintegrated because I felt like he was throwing out one "explanation" on top of another regardless of if there was any truth at all in any of it, just to see what would stick. This has been a pattern of his when there is a lie or something he is hiding or even some part of himself that he doesn't like and doesn't want to come to the surface.

This whole exchange made me feel so confused. He clearly didn't go. He was clearly uncomfortable about the whole situation... But it does seem like he was going to hide the fact that it was going on... Perhaps justify that I would "get upset for no reason" etc. it seems like he thought about going. In the end... The REAL problem isn't the going or the not going... It is the complete lack of full disclosure and openness... It is all the trappings of deceit even if he truly wasn't trying to hurt or deceive me.

It is the feeling that I can't believe what he says and that he will throw out anything or present things in crazy ways to try to avoid any potential arguments or uncomfortable discussions. I spent the whole rest of the day crying and being devastated and lost so much confidence in the process.

Plan to discuss it in MC today. Any thoughts from the wise folks on SI? Appreciation in advance....

Kelany posted 8/21/2013 09:00 AM

Hi sweetie. My husband is also a SA, who just passed his 1 year sobriety date. I totally understand what you're feeling.

Few key things though.

1. He did NOT go. This is huge, because the temptation for an addict???

2. He DID tell you about it. He didn't have to, but he did. That's a big step.

Him making an excuse to the people at work may have been him just feeling uncomfortable to tell them that well, he was uncomfortable. There is still such stigma about saying "Hey, I don't want to go because this makes me feel uncomfortable." He may have been worried that they would have teased him or tried to push him in to going regardless. And given that he's early in his recovery process, maybe he didn't think he'd have the strength to say no to them, so he did it in a way that he could still NOT go, but avoid a possible confrontation with them, if that makes sense? Granted I'm speculating here, but that kind of what my husbands thought process would have been.

My husband recently had to go out of state for work for 4 days of training. Several men (and one woman) went bar hopping, to Coyote Ugly and then a strip club one night. He did NOT want to go. He was legitimately sick and used that as his excuse. Would it have been nice for him to say "I don't want to go because strip clubs make me uncomfortable"? Sure. But in the end what was important to me is that he DIDN'T go, he told me about it and we spent the night on the phone talking. The temptation he faced was huge. He was out of town. I would have NEVER EVER EVER known. He didn't give in. That is the important factor.

Right now, I'm just concerned with him and his recovery, not exactly what he tells other people. I want him to continue to come to me when events like that happen, so in order to encourage that, I don't get upset at him when he DOES tell me. Though sometimes it can be difficult because hey, just say, I'm not into that! But again...at least he's not giving in.

Should your husband have told you beforehand? Yes. But maybe he was afraid, getting up the courage, etc. The thing is, he DID tell you in the end. And he didn't go. The defensiveness is a coping mechanism for them. He may have seen it as "Hey, I'm telling you now, why are you getting upset?" and anger at himself for not telling you to begin with, so it in turn went right to defense mode.

bytheboard posted 8/21/2013 09:59 AM

Thanks so much for your reply SamanthaBaker, your words are very appreciated. I do agree with you that it is wonderful that he didn't go... And I truly want to clarify that I could care less what he tells the people at his work. I understand the pressure and I'm not looking for him to make a stand in that .

I was confused when he presented it to me as "funny" that he fell asleep and didn't make it and my initial approach to him was gentle and asking if he had struggled with the situation and why he felt like it wasn't safe to share it with me.

I became hurt and fearful when he threw the clearly dishonest pieces out there about the civilian clothes....

If he is going to lie and grasp for straws in a situation that absolutely doesn't require it, what will he do if he ever has a true slip from sobriety?

That is my greatest fear, that he will relapse even just once and deny me reality again because he is afraid of consequences. I try to make him feel safe in talking to me, I truly do. And sometimes I fail, sometimes I fail to control my reactions. Still, why lie when the stakes are so low?

And if he will use deflection, manipulation and bending of the truth when the stakes are low.... What would he do if the stakes were high? I feel that my health, safety and life depend on his honesty and willingness to face consequences...

sodamnlost posted 8/21/2013 10:13 AM

He kind of laughed and said that they were supposed to have a farewell lunch for one of the guys at his work at, catch this.... Hooter's.... But he "fell asleep at his desk while everyone was leaving so he didn't go".

What would bother me, other than him not discussing it with you before, is that he didn't tell you he fell asleep *so that* he wouldn't have to go. Maybe I am reading it wrong but it sounds like he is telling you the story as if you need to believe the lie he told his fellow workers? Why not give you the full story before you get upset? With a WH who still has his head partially up his arse most days, i understand the fear that you must be feeling. For me, when my WH does stupid crap - I end up thinking - wow - are we REALLY still HERE? Like what's being done to make him safe? Your Dday isn't too far from mine - maybe its a stage they go through?

Kelany posted 8/21/2013 10:22 AM

My husband has told me things in a "funny" way before too. I think it's his way of covering up embarrassment? Fear? Not sure. He's gotten better about this however. He's had YEARS of lying and addictive behavior so I know it takes time to get out of that cycle too.

He especially lied about stuff when he was put on the spot. For example, after one of the many porn discoveries, he told me he swore he told me that he was looking again. Yeah, no. I'd have remembered that one. Or when I caught him masturbating one morning a year ago(his own recovery choice is to NOT masturbate) he said he was waiting for me to come into the bedroom so we could have sex and he was getting ready for me. Um...again, no. When he was put on the spot he'd grasp at anything to down play the incident. But again, he's gotten better with time, therapy, more sobriety under his belt.

Hell, during his LTA he told me "Hey, people at work are accusing me of having an affair with Lxxx at work, ha ha, isn't that funny?" Except...he was. I mean seriously?

I would definitely talk about this in MC, but try to do it in a non-confrontational manner. Instead of saying "how could you have told me xxx" say "it makes me feel unsafe when you said XXX, how can we work on this?" and make him a part of the solution?

Is he in IC? Does he go to SA meetings? Have a sponsor?

Kelany posted 8/21/2013 10:22 AM

P.S. I'm in Virginia too so depending on where you are I can recommend some SA meetings.

sparklezombie posted 8/21/2013 12:12 PM

Can you message me the meeting locations? I'm in Virginia

tushnurse posted 8/21/2013 12:38 PM

Honestly I think you are coming out ahead here. He passed up an opportunity that he normally would have jumped on, and then lied about. He also shared that with you. These are things to celebrate.
The little lies that he stumbled on and backtracked on are him trying to break the old habits of lying about anything and everything. He has done it for so long, and it is such a part of who he is, he is really struggling to separate it. This is good. He is starting to see it.

Definitely discuss in MC. But I would say these are positives.

(((and strength))))

bytheboard posted 8/22/2013 13:00 PM

Thank you so much for all the help and advice!

Maybe I am reading it wrong but it sounds like he is telling you the story as if you need to believe the lie he told his fellow workers? Why not give you the full story before you get upset?

^this really set the stage for my confusion... And was my reason for attempting to approach him gently and get to a point of understanding.

And this hits the nail on the head for the way the whole exchange left me feeling:

For me, when my WH does stupid crap - I end up thinking - wow - are we REALLY still HERE? Like what's being done to make him safe? Your Dday isn't too far from mine - maybe its a stage they go through?

Thanks so much for letting me know I am not alone in feeling this way!

And Samantha, it sounds like your husband reacted in the exact way that my husband does which causes me the most fear:

When he was put on the spot he'd grasp at anything to down play the incident. But again, he's gotten better with time, therapy, more sobriety under his belt.

It is so good to hear that this has become less of an issue for you guys!!!

We did talk about this in MC yesterday. Initially, the conversation led to more frustration on both of our parts and I felt a great deal of anxiety. The therapist suggested that my SAWH ask for time to respond when he felt "backed in a corner" as a way to mitigate his natural response to throw out whatever comes into his mind as a "reasonable explanation". MC asked me to stop trying to "get to the bottom of the exchange

This was hard for me and we drove home seperately. I was still feeling very frustrated. When I got home, he sincerely apologized and said he felt that he subconsciously hadn't wanted to deal with the uncomfortable situation and "knowing he probably wasn't going, didn't bring it up". He also said that he had told me he would be home at 2 because he " didn't know if he would get roped into going last minute". He told me he would've informed me if he had gone because he knows it would show up on the credit card and he said he realizes now that he really just should have addressed it with me in the first place.

I really appreciated the apology and the honesty and felt that we made some progress. I have a lot of anxiety about getting to a place of trust and openness- but one thing that occurred to me after his apology/ conversation when he was at his SA meeting that evening was that his initial silence was due to fear of confrontation... And if that was what he truly wanted, he could've said nothing at all. His presentation of it in a joking manner was distressing but I believe it may have been because he felt it was wrong not to say anything at all, even with the initial desire to do just that-. And this thought comforts me immensely!!!

I know my husband was reading this thread earlier which I think is vey good in helping us communicate... If you read this today why you are at work Regretwhatidid, thank you for the work you are doing and the progress you are making it... I truly do see it and appreciate it!!!

And also to Samantha... I am in southeast Virginia and have only been able to find meetings that are 45 minutes to an hour away... I try to make it... But with four kids.. It is hard. I am attending BAN meetings and IC. Luckily, there is a weekly SA group for my husband in town and he attends regularly. It is a very small but dedicated core group... I am proud of him for going! If you know of any other resources, I would love to have them. Once again, thank you for your offer of support!!!

[This message edited by bytheboard at 1:03 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]