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My cognitive mind has known this for a while now, but it has finally processed and settled in my 'total' mind.....

I have been a complete non-entity in my 20 year marriage.

Stbx has seen me as a 'means to an end.' HIS desired 'end'.....my life and my hopes/dreams were just not even a consideration....more of a roadblock or barrier to HIM getting what HE wanted.

That's it. Nothing more. I am not seen as a person who brings anything of significant value to the union.

Wow. I haven't reached the point yet where I know how I feel about this. Right now I'm still at the point that comes right after confirmation.....you know, you've 'thought' <something> is possibly true, but then when it is actually confirmed? Because before that confirmation (realization) occurs, I think there's always a little part of you that holds out hope that what you 'believe' isn't true.

He was always very skillful at acting as if I were a 'partner'....and on the occasions that the 'mask' slipped, he was very good at saying what he needed to say to get me 'back on board' so that I didn't upset his apple cart.

And recently he keeps texting me that he wants another chance.

But he stopped going to counseling months ago. He is still the exact same guy.

The one that wants to just continue 'using' me.....

Why would I say *yes* to that?

I'm still very much the 'bad guy' because I've made my *no* very clear.

Saying *no* makes me selfish, self-righteous, judgmental, ungrateful, unforgiving, yadayada......like I said, still the *same* guy that he always was.

A 'means to an end' that is just easily discarded and tossed aside when *it's* no longer of use. Just. Wow.

But you also know, in your cognitive and in your total mind, that it is his failures, shortcomings and disorderedness that produce this, not yours.

Right?

sorry Gonna. it's a very tough

place that you r in right now. just know that you have my sympathy and support.

I can't wait till you have the realization that his opinion doesn't mean shit.

you were and are the prize, it was his choice to screw that up.

strength

I faced a similar realization in my own M. I was a source of financial support or reassurance. All taking, no giving.

I also realized that I behaved exactly the way I knew I should. I was true to my own values and integrity.

In a bad situation, whether it's your M or something else, the best any of us can hope for is that we don't let it change us and remain true to ourselves. You did that. You were authentic. You were, and still are, an example for your family of how to be. How he sees you ultimately carries no real weight.

I feel the same. Feeling like I was a non-entity. A sense of comfort when he needed it. He was selfish and still is. Thinks he is telling me what I want to hear and that is "good enough"

You know what you're worth.

(((gonnabe2016)))

You are a wonderful entity to SI. Your words open my eyes into my own WH who probably sees me as a non-entity too.

I like what Rebreather had to say it is their issues and disorders that cause this way of thinking.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 2:04 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

Oh ((((gonna))))

He's the fucked up one, not you. Maybe that's another thing you 'know' but don't really feel.

Keep moving forward, you don't have to accept his self-serving opinion of you and your role in his life.

((((gonna))))

Ok, so I've had time to think about what I posted and to think about the responses....

It is current dissonance that I'm having to deal with.

The last couple of weeks have been heavily laced with the "can we talk," "please talk to me," "I want another chance," yadayada, texts from him. He's sorry, he's fucked up, he'll do anything texts. All of these have received the "no. you're still the *same* guy" responses from me. Because he is. I KNOW that he is.

I know that NC is the way to go on this type of stuff, but we're in the middle of a D and he is holding shit up because he believes that we will reconcile ("because we love each other").

So in the midst of all of the above-mentioned messages, I'm seeing shit that is happening business-wise. And these are things that I need to address and so I have been asking about them. And this is where I got walked down the path of 'you are a non-entity' and slapped in the face. Very decisively and coldly.

He seriously believes that he has achieved what he has achieved due purely to himself. In a way, he is right. He is very talented at what he does.....although *who* he is plays a big part in that. But no man is an island. I can guarantee that his life would not have been what it was without my support. But my 'support' means nothing to him. Absolutely.Nothing.

He has told me that "the only thing you did was marry a guy that is successful." Really? No I fucking didn't. I married a guy that was getting a stipend from the Navy ($600/mo), who had just been 'invited' to leave college because of his shitty grades, and who had absolutely NO direction in life. But then he goes on to say that I should try to 'do it' without *his* money and see how I do.

What an ass. I wasn't raised to live a 'chauvinstic pig' lifestyle. When we married *I* was the one with the college degree and an eye on an actual 'career.' HE was a floater who sat at our home and played baseball on Nintendo. I was not one of those girls who always aspired to grow up and be a SAHM. The SAHM role was one that I took on because it made the most sense for our lives.....for a few reasons. I really like that my kids know that they can count on me to always *be* there for them....and also because I was supporting 'him' in his quest to build the business. For us (supposedly ). I stupidly thought that I was upholding *my* end of the marriage-partnership bargain. You know, the whole give-take thing.

I just got kind of cold-cocked with this statement from him: "Some man made law will allow you to cash in on the work I do in the future. Some man made law says half this money is yours." I was honestly just stunned. What??? Ok. My response: "Ok. Wow. I have nothing else to say to you."

What the fuck? The dude is (supposedly) so broken up and miserable and remorseful about the demise of his marriage.....but all that we have is "mine, mine, mine!"???

Anyway. I do know that it's HIM and not me. (And RB, you were a BIG help to me in my early days here on SI)

Who drew up his fucking game plan to get his wife back? Because saying all of THAT shit is most definitely NOT the way to try to woo your betrayed wife back. Fucking idiot.

I let him have what he wanted (against my L's advice) as far as placement because I figured that it was futile to take it to court. He is his own boss and makes his own schedule, and could have totally sold that to a judge. But this whole summer has been a total nightmare because what he insisted that he could handle as far as placement? He can't....or chooses not to. And I have received an enormous amount of brain damage over it. He has implied multiple times that I'm a 'bad' mom because I'm not available to *cover* for him and that *he* has a job and "what do I do?". Well sorry dude, I make my plans based on the placement schedule that YOU insisted on.

I just get so tired of having to constantly do the 'positive self-talk' thing because he's so busy telling me that I'm such a non-entity. It's tiring to have to go back through the history of our marriage and remind myself that *I* have always acted in the 'best interest' of the marriage as a whole.

And the whole "it's *his* money* thing?" It's no wonder that I'm sifting through all of the finances with a fine-toothed comb....because if he really sees it as *his,* then what's to keep him from hiding it from me....since I supposedly have no claim to it since it's *his?*

He's the non-entity. He is an empty MotherF'er who has no empathy, compassion nor a whole lot of other things that makes up the average human-being.

My ex tried that "it's my money" BS. I told him to tell that to a judge and see what happens. This was right after "Mr. Nice Guy" started being more helpful and being involved with our kids more. Apparently that didn't cause me to start kissing his ass the way he thought I should so out came the asshole he really is.

Your stbx wants you to believe the bull he's spewing to make it feel more true for him. He is an incompetent jackass and he knows it! When he faces the struggles that come from being an incompetent jackass, rather than recognizing and fixing the problem (him) he destroys and discards. It didn't solve his problems every other time he's done it but because he's a rigid piece of shit, he keeps doing the same stupid things.

I'm sorry gonna! I'm having a hard time too dealing with the fact that 10 years of "love" was actually 10 years of being used like an object. My ex needed a mommy (to be his caretaker and to take out all of his mommy issues on), he needed a maid, he needed someone to give him the family-man doting husband and father image (without doing any of the work of course), ego boosting, sex, a meal-maker, errand runner etc. etc..I thought I was doing that for a man who loved me and instead it was a man who saw me as a handy object that took care of multiple needs (but never good enough). I have no doubt now that he was always looking and waiting for what he thought was a chance to upgrade me like an appliance.

They are sick bastards who will likely die the same POS they are today. They may grow old but they will NEVER mature and become the great man they think they already are.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 11:52 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

Gonna,

You know that as a narcissist you exist as an extension of him, not separate. As such, you are not your own entity. This robs you of your identity.

This is his issue, not yours. Let go of it. You know what your identity is. Own it. He does not have the ability to take this away from you anymore. And you know what the reality is of your M regardless of what he believes. Always remember what a narcissist is capable of. I am sorry that more of this is becoming very real to you, it is difficult to realize exactly what our reality has been. Hugs.

Hang in there Gonna.....

This too shall pass. Once the divorce part is over, it will get better.

Fight for you, fight for your kids.... He has repeatedly shown you who he is.

(((Gonna)))

Please go back and re read what tired girl posted.

You are such a kick ass, strong, awesome woman that it sucks to see you get down. I know that when this is done, the world better watch out, because nothing is going to stop you. You will be happy, and successful, and raise awesome people.

He is a slefish, narcissistic, manipulative, mind bending, self justifying ass. He is not worth your time, or your brain space. Hang in there. D will happen.

(((and strength))))

Oh, (((((gonna))))). BTDT. Almost word-for-word with Daffy. The rewriting of history and trying to sell it to the person who was *there* is crazy-making!!! But keep your eye on the prize and your witty or angry WTF responses here. It sucks right now but it's almost over!

FWIW I used the phrase, "I completely disagree with everything you've just said," when necessary. No emotion. Just fact. And I never gave anything more. (And that phrase was specifically CYA in case any of that spewed nonsense went before a judge -- didn't happen in the end.)

I don't know if that would help you or not. With Daffy, crickets wouldn't work. But that statement was as close as I could get to crickets, and it basically had the same effect.

Gonna - I wish I had wise advise for you, but everyone else has said everything that you already know anyway, It's him - Not You!

Just keep moving forward, you know in your heart what's good for "you" don't let him doubt your decisions. From what I can see here, you have fought a good fight to save the M.

This too shall pass!

I can't wait until your D is final, all that weight will be lifted, and you'll be a new woman!

I think what you're feeling is just another interpretation of knowing your M was a fraud b/c your stbxmfaposwh (soon to be ex mother fucking asshat piece of shit wh) was never real, never committed, never who you thought he was.

His constant bombs of attention to you - both positive & negative - mean you don't really get to settle on one interpretation of events since it means you spend a good deal of time in emotional triage mode, trying to fight it off, stand your ground, not get distracted from reality and what you need to do to make the D work for you.

Please remember, this is all smoke and mirrors designed to get you to feel badly. You *know* you were a full, true, the best partner. You *know* you are a fabulous mother whose kids couldn't do without her. You *know* what's true. You are the holder of your identity. Not him, nor has he ever been, nor will anyone else define you. Only you can do that.

His words are meaningless b/c whatever he says is only of the moment, with an angle, attempting to "get" something. All this "his money" talk? The angle: to get you to back down so he can keep more of it. And he'll say whatever it takes to make that happen.

Do not take his words to heart. Please. You know better.

All of these have received the "no. you're still the *same* guy" responses from me.

It's time to shift your wording to what's real. The response is no longer characterizing him with an eye towards he has a choice in who he is. It doesn't matter if he does. He's crossed too many lines, done too much damage. He is now a non-entity, unwanted, not good enough. So now it should simply be: "I do not love you. I do not like you. I do not respect you. I do not want to be married to you."

So, it's I want this D because I do not love you. I do not like you. I do not respect you. I do not want to be married to you.

I am uninterested in what you have to say because I do not love you. I do not like you. I do not respect you. I do not want to be married to you.

No matter what you say, I do not believe you because I do not love you. I do not like you. I do not respect you. I do not want to be married to you.

And so on.

I'm sorry Gonna, that must get overwhelming to deal with his constant bombardment. It sounds like he's trying to pull a guilt-trip w.r.t. the money, which is ridiculous and extremely hurtful - you did support him all those years, you were his family unit for those years, and you raised and still raise children that BOTH of you wanted. Can't he say thank you? Then, combined with his "let's get back together" messages - Hoovering for the lose.

You will get through this, and then hopefully you won't have to hear his remarks anymore. Or if he keeps harassing you, you can simply turn up the music.

It must be very painful that he minimized YOU so much during your marriage to him, that he made you a non-entity. That's painful. You can reclaim yourself now, but doesn't take away the pain of what he did, you'll still have to heal from what he did, hopefully it can mean that you're on your way to a safer place, away from him. Take care my friend.

great post cayc!