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kg201 posted 8/21/2013 16:42 PM

I have a question that I am not sure how to phrase, but I'll give it a try.

This morning driving to work I was thinking about the ways that my WW has damaged our marriage, and specifically ways that her LTA has harmed me. But then I got to thinking about the kids. Her LTA lasted 3 years, but during that time she was a present mom. Generally her affair took place either during the day when I was at work and the kids at school, or in the evening when she was at work with her AP after the kids were in bed, or when I was away with the kids. So there doesn't seem to be a overt harm to the kids.

However I feel like her lying and false approach to our marriage had indirect affects on the kids, but I don't know how to put that into words. So my question...do folks have suggestions on ways to talk about those effects or ideas on possible effects? I don't have the language to describe what the effect is. What did her affair take away from the kids?

Hope this makes sense.

K

Camalus posted 8/21/2013 16:56 PM

I'm new here but I think I know what you are asking.

My WW's affair was over 14 years ago. (even though I just found out) At the time our daughter was in High School.

Several times over the years our daughter has asked why her Mom seemed so detatched and disinterested in her High School years.

Kids pick on much more than we think they. And a mother that doesn't express interest in her daughters Prom or SAT scores not to mention college applications is definately detached.

You might consider discussing this with a shrink. He (or she) should be able to tell you what signs you should watch for with your children.

I remember our daugher being 'hell on wheels' for a few years. Poor stupid dad just chalked it up to teenage angst.

Good Luck.

[This message edited by tirednconfused at 4:57 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

1Faith posted 8/21/2013 16:59 PM

Her affair took away time, energy and a true presence.

She wasn't really there if she was thinking of the AP or worry about how to construct the next lie.

She took away the faith their father had in his marriage and in his spouse. She took away some faith.

She risked their whole sense of security and family. She risked the foundation of their lives.

Directly or indirectly she was not being a good mother to them. Sure, she got the tasks done but she was putting herself first and that, IMO, does not make her a good mother during this time.

What if the AP would become violent and have hurt her or you? What would that have done to the kids?

What if he would of reached out to the kids to get to your wife?

They were at risk of losing their home, their sense of security and belonging and somehow having to reconcile that their mother put her own selfish needs before them.

That is a lot. Hopefully she understands this.

Hugs to you and your kids.

doesitgetbetter posted 8/21/2013 17:30 PM

My H thought the A didn't affect our kids either. Until the day he realized that he had taken them both to the park (both under 5 at the time) to give me some rest (I was sick) and he took his laptop. He spent the entire time cruising Craigslist personal's. When our kids asked for him to push them on the swing, he responded "no, I'm busy, push yourself". To a 3 year old he said this.

The day he realized that little nugget, he was a hollow shell of himself. That was the day that he realized it wasn't just about harming me, he was harming the kids by taking time away from them too.

Everytime our WS checks their cell phone and texts the AP, evertime our WS shows pics of our kids to the AP, everytime our WS has sex with the AP they are putting their health at risk and therefor their life and risking making our children grow up without at least 1 parent but most likely 2 since the BS would probably get the STD as well. And for her to be pregnant while having sex with him.... she was risking the very life of her unborn child.

By the way, has a paternity test been done? It's not pleasant, but it's probably a possibility that at least that one could have a different biological dad.

ETA: Sorry, I have a cold today and taking meds and I thought your post said she was a "pregnant mom", not present. Ignore my comment for the most part. :-)

[This message edited by doesitgetbetter at 5:31 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

Girlietoo posted 8/21/2013 20:10 PM

I know what my WH took from our children; me. His affair sent me into a deep depression, I was unable to function for many weeks and wasn't able to be the loving, attentive mom that I know I am. Sure, I fed them and got them to school etc but I was too lost in grief to do any more.

My WH also gave away what precious free time he had. His job was demanding and he was working long hours- hours that became longer when he started staying late to engage with his AP. Generally he saw our son at bedtime when he did the bedtime routine and story reading. More and more he didn't come home until long after our son was sleeping. He took that from our son.

This entire affair has the potential to harm my children by disrupting their lives should we decide to part ways. I know this will be especially difficult for our very sensitive 8yr old son.

As previous posters have said, every text message, every phone call, every email was time and energy taken from me and our family.

Girlietoo posted 8/21/2013 20:14 PM

Oh, my WH also risked his job and career; our family's financial security.

I'm sure his employer would not have been impressed to know that his long work hours included having sexual contact with a jr employee in his office.

OldCow18 posted 8/21/2013 20:59 PM

She risked your kids safe haven, just gambled it. Having an A was more important to her than keeping her kids in an intact family. Her actions could have caused divorce, custody issues, visitation nightmares, finacial issues...Yes, OF COURSE her actions adversely affected your children. And even if you are in R, how about the state of anger/depression/fighting the house is now under?

This is something I have fought with WH about often. He claims his A had nothing to do with the kids, but he gambled all of our lives and he lost. Cheaters always do. Although we are attempting R, EVERYTHING has changed, and if he thinks our 8 and 6 year old don't sense that our perfect family bubble doesn't exist anymore he's still got his head up his ass.

Our entire family dynamic has changed forever. And during his A? He checked out. I knew it and they knew it. He was here, but he wasn't really HERE.

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 9:00 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

1ost0ne posted 8/21/2013 21:18 PM

I've struggled with this topic. My WW's first A was 15 years ago that I found out 3 weeks ago. Was it an invisible (to me) thorn between us that led to her second infidelity and me being a bitter H? I would like to think so. In reality, we aren't great parents and even worse when we lie and hide things from the ones we love the most. In my small mind, I'm sure that if my WW had an unconditional love for me, things would have been different for the family.

keptmyword posted 8/23/2013 18:03 PM

So my question...do folks have suggestions on ways to talk about those effects or ideas on possible effects? I don't have the language to describe what the effect is. What did her affair take away from the kids

Kg201,

The damage to the kids is much worse and far more reaching than most know or acknowledge.

The damage can hopefully be minimized by a wayward spouse who grows up quickly and fully and authentically realizes what they have done and do everything possible to change their behavior.

Adultery/infidelity absolutely guts any and all trust within a home. This is the ultimate betrayal from the one you least expected to ever betray you. Where there is no trust, questionable trust, or trust with fear, the children will not feel "safe". Where within a home there is trust, honesty, and loyalty - there is safety and children will sense that.

One of the greatest lessons imparted to children in growing up in a faithful, yet imperfect family, is the ability to compromise and work through the differences that are within EVERY family. They must be able to SEE the action of their parents persisting and overcoming the hard times that reality brings to EVERYONE at some points in life. This prepares them to deal with and relate to people in a well-adjusted social way. The ability to function socially with others in a healthy way is a big determining factor in whether a child will grow to be successful and happy or not.

It is ok for children to see that if two people, who have HONESTLY tried and worked at, yet were ultimately unable to overcome differences or extenuating circumstances, end up getting divorced. It is understandable and the marriage should be and can be ended like adults.

On the other hand it IS NOT ok for children to have to go through betrayal from within the family. It can devastate their ability to trust or cause them to accept behaviors or situations that should never be accepted.

My children are boys. My XWW is their mother.

Their mother - whom they love very much.

The one that completely and ruthlessly lied, deceived, and betrayed their father in the most painful, cruel way.

Their father - whom they love very much.

At some point in the future when my sons are adults, they will probably be together talking about the divorce and how "mom was fucking around on dad".

And then, it will strike their minds:

"If my very dear mom would fuck around on my very dear dad, then what woman WOULDN'T fuck around on me?"

It sets them up to have trust issues and relationship issues as well as the possibility of them becoming doormats and gravitating towards people that treat them like shit.

The bottom line is that the kids get hurt the worst. They can't divorce their deceitful mom/dad.

After D-day, I offered reconciliation once - to show my kids that I believe in forgiveness. She deceived me again and took it underground. After that, I divorced her, even though she then wanted to reconcile, to show my kids that you DO NOT accept that shit in your life. To show them that if they are honest, trusting, and loyal, that they deserve to be treated better.

pewpewpew posted 8/23/2013 18:54 PM

Yikes. Yes this subject is very sensitive to me.
My WH A started when I was roughly 7 months pregnant. I do not need the "why's" since I obviously know what they were. Emotionally, I was of course worried about my pregnancy. I had a high risk one. After years of struggling with infertility, of course that was to be expected. I always worried if our baby was OK especially due to twice/week ultrasounds.
Sexually, I was off limits.

But, his affair went underground when I found out. Far past our child's birth.
I hate him for this. It is one thing to engage in an A when you do not have children but to my standards inexcusable once you do.
Did he ever wonder how this would affect our child?!
What if I had said enough was enough and I could no longer continue our M due to his infidelity?!
Ultimately our child would have a broken home. Due to his insecurities.

At first I stayed for my child. I would do anything in this world to ensure her happiness.
Now, I am happy I chose to stay. We are doing good. And happy.
However, I will no longer tolerate any BS. You fuck me over again and I'm out.

Did he ever think about her?!?!
Now, he wants to pretend he's the super dad - but in all seriousness - did you think that while engaged in your A?!
You bastard. That's how I see him these days...

nuance posted 8/23/2013 22:31 PM

She gambled with her kids life.

suckstobeme posted 8/23/2013 23:27 PM

My exwh's A took so much from my kids. It continues to hurt me through the hurt and disappointment that they feel.

To my kids, my exWH used to hang the moon. To DS especially, he many times was the preferred parent. When he started to engage in his A, he changed and therefore changed them forever.

They became a bother. He purposely avoided coming home until they were asleep. He let me do all the heavy lifting - cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, on top of working full time and taking care of two small kids. His big contribution by the end was to go out drinking after work and do me the favor to pick up dinner. He usually showed up at about eight o'clock when we were all starving and I had already fed the kids out of necessity. When he was here, he wasnt really here. In simple terms, he checked out of this life way before I ever knew there was a problem.

When he left with almost no explanation or fanfare, he created a massive void. The kids still feel it and are still confused by it. They know, without me having to tell them, that he left us all. He divorced them too. He is now caught up in a new life with OW who really doesn't like or want his children around much. His attention is completely divided and they know it. I think he loves them, but he now loves them from afar. He broke that bond and is too lazy or ashamed or blind to try to rebuild it. His world seems very choatic and messy with OW. He doggy paddles through life now and will always be their fallen hero.

It makes me so sad that they won't get the same bond with their father like I had with mine. My dad wasn't a perfect parent. No one is. But he never once made me feel bad or did anything to deliberately hurt me. He was the man who was always there literally until the day he died. They don't get that. Exwh had potential, but he went the other way and now all they get is some half assed attempts to sway their feelings when it suits him and when he can get away from OW's control. It won't work in the long run.

The only vindication I have is that it seems as though he now realizes that he's losing them and that his choices caused it. When he first left, he said virtually nothing about how it would impact them except that he felt they would adjust. Sadly, they have. But they have adjusted to a life without him. They have moved on and live their daily lives without a peep from him. Even though they are still young, they sometimes return the disinterest and find him an obligation rather than a joy. He sees it and feels it, especially when they don't want to visit or when they treat him or his house as secondary. He recently said to me, finally after three years "I know the damage I've caused them because of what I've done and my choices." That's probably the biggest revelation he will ever express. Too bad it's already too late.

So, in answer to the question, the A takes everything from the kids. Even if the couple ends up in R, the family dynamic has changed forever. Kids see and hear much more than we think and their perception of family, loyalty, faith and trust will never be the same once one of their parents commits soul suicide and turns away from the ones who love him or her the most. It's the saddest and most devastating effect of this whole thing.

keptmyword posted 8/24/2013 00:57 AM

So, in answer to the question, the A takes everything from the kids. Even if the couple ends up in R, the family dynamic has changed forever. Kids see and hear much more than we think and their perception of family, loyalty, faith and trust will never be the same once one of their parents commits soul suicide and turns away from the ones who love him or her the most. It's the saddest and most devastating effect of this whole thing.

This sums it up very well.

Well said and spot-on, suckstobeme.