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User Topic: What my Psychologist is saying
Camalus
♂ 40199
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is kind of long, but I do want feedback and appreciate the advice of others during this trying time in my life.

My psychologist has given me some advice and homework to do before I confront my WW. I would like opinions on her advice and how accurate her view of WW’s affair scenario sounds.

First she says confronting the issue with my wife is a must. That if I just decide to let the past stay in the past I will continue to suffer with a form of PTSD which will ultimately destroy our marriage.

As homework, I am to make several lists: (1) the top four things I will need to make me feel safe in our marriage (2) What I envision as four possible outcomes of the confrontation, (3) four things I love about myself. We will discuss and modify these lists over the course of my next few sessions.

She (the psychologist) says I will likely never know the complete truth and what I do find out will come out piecemeal over an extended period. The mere fact her affair was fourteen years ago (approximate – still trying to get a timeline) complicates finding out anything my WW does not want to tell me.

I am also to be braced for the fact my wife likely thought at the time she loved this guy and may even have considered leaving me and our daughter to be with him. She explained most married women enter into an emotional affair that later becomes a physical affair and the idealized romance was, in her mind, much better than her real life marriage. I don't know why, but that bit of information HURT!

I’ve also been told most married women’s affairs follow the same pattern. I have tried to outline below the pattern and explanations as given to me by my psychologist but may have missed or misunderstood a few things. Does this match with what y'all have seen or learned?

Most married women’s affairs start as emotional affairs only later evolving into physical affairs. The emotional affair may last years before becoming physical and the physical portion typically lasts no longer than eighteen months to two years.

Many emotional affairs start in the workplace. Other common places are school, sports functions, church groups and activities that only the wayward spouse attends.

They will discover a common bond; a hobby, a favorite TV Show, medical condition, or other item they share. Over time, as the friendship develops, they will begin to discuss aspects of life outside of work. She may discuss problems she is having with her children or husband and he will contribute to the bonding by discussing parts of his personal life. They will begin to complement one another. She may complement him on a new tie and he might mention a minor change in her hairstyle.

Assuming it’s a coworker (which is what is suspected of my WW). At some point, they will go for lunch or after work drinks with no other coworkers present. This is where the deceptions begin. The wayward wife will ‘forget’ to mention going for lunch or drinks with a male coworker. She will cease mentioning this coworker at home whereas previously she would have mentioned things he had said or jokes he had told. They will possibly even limit their time together at work to minimize office gossip or speculation about their friendship. She will only consider them close friends but realizes deep down their discussions about personal issues and friendly lunches have crossed a line.

The emotional affair is full blown when the lies start. When a ‘girls night out’ is in reality an excuse to meet her affair partner for dinner, when she starts asking friends to provide an alibi, claims to be working late, or otherwise deceives her husband as to her whereabouts and actions, the emotional affair is on the path to sexual intimacy. In her mind, it may still just be innocent lunches, dinners, or drinks with a friend but she realizes her husband would not agree or approve and recognizes it is wrong. The wayward wife will justify in her mind that she is doing nothing wrong, that this is not dating, etc. because they use separate vehicles to arrive at the same destination and nothing physical has happened.

Once the affair has become physical, it has begun a downward spiral towards ending. The physical portion of the affair takes the bloom off the idealized romance the woman has been envisioning. She will begin to see things in her affair partner she had not seen before the affair becomes physical. She will discover he farts, scratches his crotch, and belches. Her affair partner will decrease the number of complements, such as noticing and mentioning minor changes in her hair style, complementing her on how great she looks, and saying all of those little things that led up to the physical affair.

When the affair becomes physical, less time is spent on the emotional aspects of the affair. The time required for intimate discussions and emotional bonding that sustain the romantic intimacy will become a thing of the past as that time is now dedicated towards the physical aspects of the affair.

The simple facts she and her affair partner no longer have time for the emotional bonding, her affair partner has human faults (much like her husband), and has questionable morals, all lead to the wayward wife realizing enchantment is not reality.

Unless the affair is discovered or the woman becomes so detached from reality she abandons her family, most of these affairs die a natural death within a few years of becoming physical.


Me–BS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
mixedintherut
♀ 40330
Member # 40330
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so incredibly sorry you are going through this. As someone who just discovered a WH in an emotional affair, is it SO hard. I could not hold anything back, I confronted him immediately and needed him to admit there was someone else. He admitted he was talking to her, but of course the "we are just friends" followed everything!

The fact that you are in counseling already, and doing homework is great! I am in the process of getting into IC.

The whole thing is so very hard. Please post as often as you like! You are not alone!


DD 1: PA 12/4/09 He spent 2.5 years with OW1
R: 8/31/2012
DD 2: EA 8/16/13
BS: 26
WH: 25
1 young daughter.
Terribly disgusted. He refuses to give up his "friend". Headed towards D.

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: kentucky
mixedintherut
♀ 40330
Member # 40330
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so incredibly sorry you are going through this. As someone who just discovered a WH in an emotional affair, is it SO hard. I could not hold anything back, I confronted him immediately and needed him to admit there was someone else. He admitted he was talking to her, but of course the "we are just friends" followed everything!

The fact that you are in counseling already, and doing homework is great! I am in the process of getting into IC.

The whole thing is so very hard. Please post as often as you like! You are not alone!


DD 1: PA 12/4/09 He spent 2.5 years with OW1
R: 8/31/2012
DD 2: EA 8/16/13
BS: 26
WH: 25
1 young daughter.
Terribly disgusted. He refuses to give up his "friend". Headed towards D.

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: kentucky
ionlytalkedtoher
♀ 39802
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it accurate and typical--I'd say yes very.

Confronting is a must I agree. You need to find out all the info you can first and decide where to go from there.


Posts: 264 | Registered: Jul 2013
kg201
♂ 40173
Member # 40173
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The simple facts she and her affair partner no longer have time for the emotional bonding, her affair partner has human faults (much like her husband), and has questionable morals, all lead to the wayward wife realizing enchantment is not reality.

Unless the affair is discovered or the woman becomes so detached from reality she abandons her family, most of these affairs die a natural death within a few years of becoming physical.

I don't think this happens in all cases. My wife had/has an LTA that has lasted 3 years. I found out almost 4 weeks ago. She is at the moment saying she is not willing to give the other guy up. She considers the emotional support she gets from him the primary thing, and the physical is secondary. I don't know whether her relationship with the other guy will ultimately end or not.

The rest of what you write sounds about right from what I know about my WW's LTA. The homework you received sounds good, but I know I needed to confront my wife the moment I suspected. I wasn't able to keep it in. Some of the HW you have is what I am working on right now after the fact.

Good luck.

K


Me: BH, 39
Her: WW, 40
Together 18 years, married 15+
LTA 3.5 years, ongoing
Dday: 7/28/13
Divorcing, 3 children
---------------------------------
"There can be no friendship without confidence, and no confidence without integrity." -S

Posts: 773 | Registered: Aug 2013
solus sto
♀ 30989
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She (the psychologist) says I will likely never know the complete truth and what I do find out will come out piecemeal over an extended period. The mere fact her affair was fourteen years ago (approximate – still trying to get a timeline) complicates finding out anything my WW does not want to tell me.

As one who found out/confronted years after the fact, I think it quite likely that you will NOT get the information you want, at least not all of it.

That said, I don't think there is a "typical woman's affair," as you go on to describe. Women are individuals, and while many affairs (men's and women's) have similar features, I just don't think it's particuarly helpful to speculate about, "most women's affairs."

Until you learn about your WIFE'S affair--which requires action rather than talking in a counselor's office-- there's not a lot of sense in educating yourself about imaginary "most women." Because your wife isn't "most women."

No, her affair won't be special. It won't have extra Skittle-pooping unicorns. But it also likely won't fit the profile your IC seems intent on creating.

So, I think your IC's exercise in profiling "most women who cheat" is an exercise in (your IC's) self-indulgence. It's not apt to help you with your confrontation, and it doesn't tell you anything about your wife's affair.

OTOH, I think your IC's advice to prepare for hearing things you do not like is a good one. (This might include an awful lot of, "I don't remember," "Oh, my God! It was 14 years ago--can't you JUST GET OVER IT?!" and "I don't know.")

If you are prepared for that--can role-play some possible responses--then perhaps you can guide the confrontation in a more constructive direction, so that you do get some answers.

I think it's a great idea to create a list of what will make you feel safe---as long as you know that the list will likely require revision after confrontation. After confrontation, you will be better able to identify the demons from which you need protection.

Limited speculation before the fact may be helpful. Revising lists over several appointments certainly will not be. Why? Unless confrontation occurs, you have no basis for revision.

While some preparation is good, there comes a time when it's time to stop talking and start acting.

I'd suggest that, unless your IC has found that your toolbox is missing important coping tools that she believes are critical to your well-being upon confrontation, it's TIME TO ACT.

Why the slow, slow removal of the Band-Aid? Your IC seems intent on ripping each arm hair out individually, as slowly and painfully as possible---and I just don't see the benefit.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9042 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds like your psychologist has a solid handle on this stuff, though I would disagree that different genders follow different patterns; there are plenty of OM who weep tears of dismay when a WW drops them at the curb because she was just fucking them to feel better about herself.

The lists are a good idea but to add to that make sure you keep eating properly, drinking enough water and sleeping enough. Exercise also. Your physical condition will influence your mental health immensely and you want to do everything you can to stay focused and safe.

This link goes to a post called Tactical Primer and has some pretty good advice, and should also bear out some of the advice you've already received from your psychologist. Good luck.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7572 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
kg201
♂ 40173
Member # 40173
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

as long as you know that the list will likely require revision after confrontation.

I'm at that point right now. I gave my list of needs to my WW, which she took with her on a vacation with the kids this week. I need to hand her a different list when she return after a week of reconsidering some of what I wrote.

k


Me: BH, 39
Her: WW, 40
Together 18 years, married 15+
LTA 3.5 years, ongoing
Dday: 7/28/13
Divorcing, 3 children
---------------------------------
"There can be no friendship without confidence, and no confidence without integrity." -S

Posts: 773 | Registered: Aug 2013
SeanFLA
♂ 32380
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think some things with gender profiling can be correct. But no not all. Every person is different. Every FOO issue can be different. But some things I have realized about men and women. For instance:

Men play on a woman's emotions to get sex, whereas woman use sex to try to get at a man's emotions.

It's one way men and women view the world differently many times. But until she can actually talk to your WW (and your WW can be honest) there's no telling what those issues truly are. I think many BSs (even like myself) take way too much time trying to understand their broken WS. Ripping a band aid off slowly doesn't lessen the blow or fix the problems any better.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
sparklezombie
♀ 40095
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First she says confronting the issue with my wife is a must. That if I just decide to let the past stay in the past I will continue to suffer with a form of PTSD which will ultimately destroy our marriage.

Yes.


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 253 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
devasted30
♀ 39439
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello tirednconfused
This is textbook - and I mean textbook. Right now I am reading the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass and she is quoting her practically word for word so far. Mind you, I'm not finished the book but everthing you have been told up to the part where the attraction starts to wane is exactly what the book is about as well. I must admit, the book is giving me a lot of insight.
My gut says, she is probably right - get the book, read it. It's helping me quite a bit.


And remember Murphy is right. Nothing is so bad that it can't get worse!!!

Posts: 1381 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
tushnurse
♀ 21101
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yah I'm not buying it or why it's important what "most women" do. I'm more concerned with your coping methods and tools with your wife's coping methods and tools.

Meaning if your wife is an avoider you need a certain set of tools to deal with her than you would of your wife is a blamer. That's what you need to prep for. Not what a typical affairs stages are.

You need to decide if you are willing to attempt R If you are willing to attempt it then what is it going to take from her to do that. If This is a deal breaker for you of she is unwilling to own this what are you going to do. Creating plans for scenarios.

Honestly. This is where my somewhat negative view of therapy plays in. Your therapist should be helping you figure out direction and helping you to cultivate your coping skills. Of course they don't get paid to fix you, and make you feel strong. They get paid when you continue to come week after week after week after week. (yes I'm a cynic I've worked healthcare to know how the game is played).

Have you seen a lawyer yet? You really should. Get the lay of the land on how things could play out. Knowledge is power but secrets are soul sucking.

(((( and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
jb3199
♂ 27673
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, August 27th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that generalizations are frowned upon here, but I think that this is a good starting point.

Your psychologist has the same dilemma that you haven't(and maybe shouldn't) confront your WW at this point. That is an area outside of her realm, so I assume that she wants you to proceed with caution.

As for you getting the truth, TC, there are a few reasons I would expect her NOT to be honest with you, and only one reason why she may come clean immediately. And this is the parts that hurts the most: she has been lying to you for 14 years...nonstop. She lies every day that she doesn't confess, and the even more concerning part is that the way that you described her behavior at the time, and a resuming to her "normal" lifestyle afterwards, tends to show that she was able to file that era of her life---YOUR LIFE---away, without it eating her up inside. That is the scary part---that she has been able to live with herself while continually lying by omission to you.

But the one reason I can see her come clean is for the wrong reason---fear of mortality. I guess at this point, the most important thing to get is the truth, but I hope I am missing another more plausible reason for her to be honest after all these years of dishonesty.

I do like the approach that your psychologist has had so far. If she feels like a comfortable fit, I would continue this path.

The best of luck going forward.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2115 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
FightingBack
♀ 34770
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, August 27th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know about "most women", but I know something about our OW.

She is an example that follows your psychologist's theory almost to a T.

I say I know, but I am basing this knowledge on what WH and OW told me.

She (OW) felt validated and special by my H. She claims her own husband didn't value her opinion or think her very smart.

She and my H talked at work after hours for almost two years before the physical affair began.

They began going out for drinks after work together and although my WH says it was still "innocent", he never told me that he was spending time alone with her.

He had to drive her home one night. Her husband and son were out and they had sex.

He admitted he made the first moves, but she pretty quickly escalated things by giving him a BJ.

She continued to "service" him in this way for another year or so before they actually had sex "together".

I'm explaining this to support the theory of "men play on a woman's emotions to get sex whereas women will use sex to get at a man's emotions."

As the years went on, yes, less and less time was spent talking and building up the emotional bond.
Sex became the assumed result of their after hour time together.

The only part that doesn't match up is that their affair did not die a natural death. It ended, very abruptly, when I discovered it. By then it had lasted 15 years.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 809 | Registered: Feb 2012
Thefly559
♂ 40268
Member # 40268
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 27th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry you are here ,but you will get some good advice from the people on this site to help you through this extremely traumatic time .i have been in therapy for a year now and it was actually my therapist who told me my wife was cheating way before I caught her. Everything your therapist told you is accurate as to the signs of an exit affair. The ending part where they realize their mistake is not that accurate because I am sure many people like me on here never got that part . The part where your spouse comes to her senses at the end so I wish you luck with that.it is great that you are in therapy and working on you! And trying to understand. Someone mention " not just friends" by Shirley glass. Read it if you have a chance , it helped me understand greatly. I do not think you will ever get the full story so just be prepared for the worst , although I hope you do . Good luck and know you are not alone !


"what does not kill you , makes you stronger"

Posts: 709 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc
3Xthefool
♂ 40113
Member # 40113
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, September 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think your psychologist makes some valid points but as some of the others here have pointed out.....every woman is different and follows a unique path to infidelity.

I think overall, most of us....men & women both.....tend to seek out things and people that satisfy specific needs if those needs aren't being met by the spouse.

Using my WW as an example: when we moved to a new city she noticed that she was getting hit on by the men here very often which was new to her since her physique wasn't the "ideal" look in our old hometown. Once she started getting all this attention, it escalated to her actually seeking it out. It was a downward spiral from there until, at one point, one of the men she worked with was relentless enough that he wore down her resolve to be a faithful wife and to just "see what it would be like to have sex with someone outside of the marriage". Once that first time happened she was "addicted" to the attention she got from it and to the "validation" of her ego.

Here we are 8yrs and 5 OMs later. 2 of those men were LTAs. The only one of those affairs that followed the pattern your psychologist describes was the last one which went on for 3 1/2 years and may very well be continuing....except that it has gone underground to an extreme.


Posts: 59 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New York City
Topic Posts: 16

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