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libertyrocks posted 8/23/2013 12:04 PM

I've been going through the roller coaster of emotions, sometimes revisiting the same ones.

But, I can't help but feel he deserves a consequence. How everything is not just going to "be ok" again because he decided he wants to be with me and not OW because he was "drunk" the entire time. Which, if it weren't for our chemical dependency therapists, I would not believe alcohol played a huge role.

But now what? He gets to live this great life with the boys and I? Does anyone else feel this way?

I feel so bitter, so disrespected, so violated, so taken advantage of, so nice, so giving, so trusting, so generous, all the time he was corrupting my innocence. The innocence of a faithful spouse. I know it's not fair and he is truly sorry.

I don't know where to go next. Emotionally, that is.
Any advice? He's not going anywhere. He WANTS us again. But, is that what I get in life?? Is this what I deserve. Every time I think this is it, I don't want him, I think deep in my heart that I do love him. I'm just still pissed off. I can't shake the anger, the betrayal. I've been trying, but those feelings of resentment are still there...

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 12:05 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 8/23/2013 12:11 PM

Consequences, justice, fairness, whatever you want to call it liberty, it just isn't going to be there for us, the BS's.

To have a healthy reconciliation I feel you need to come to a place of acceptance that there just won't ever be any consequences equal to what we have been put through.

When we started going to MC I decided we were going in with a clean slate, so to speak. I was going to let all my past resentments go so we could work on our present. Some were a lot easier to let go than others as I had a very long list made up from the past 30 years.

Really, I had a mantra that I had to repeat to myself over and over again. It is "Don't dwell in the past, don't worry about the future, live in the present" It has served me well.

rachelc posted 8/23/2013 12:21 PM

I think you have to dig deep in IC to see if this IS something you can accept. Once you get past the first year, and the survival instinct has died down, only then you can think. This is a trauma in which your brain has to heal.
I am currently going through this in IC... only when I'm healed can I think rationally.

As far as living in the past - I think past resentments can tie into what you're feeling today. We dug up another betrayal by him (not infidelity related) from 13 years ago today. It was something I needed to process.
So, to say that, "I'm just not gonna go there." Well, maybe you should go there and deal with it. Things that have happened in our past create our future and our present, IMHO.

[This message edited by rachelc at 12:21 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 8/23/2013 13:14 PM

Oh, and for goodness sake, liberty, I would still consider you a newbie. You're expecting too much of yourself at this point. I was just coming out of the shock and denial stage at about 8-9 months out and hit the anger stage at about 6 months out so was still pretty pissed off at 9 months post d-day. Pretty pissed for a good 18 months, actually.

When the shock and denial started to wear off is when I realized that this was a forever traumatic event. That this wasn't going to go away and things would Never. Be. The. Same. Maybe that is why I was so pissed off. An irreversible change that I had no choice or control over but I was the one that was effected the most by their choices. How dare they!!!????!!!!!

This isn't the fight about when I made a recipe of pork chops and apples (sounded good to me) and FWH was so furious (who the fuck cooks apples and pork chops together?) he threw his plate of food and it stuck to the ceiling and than crashed down to the floor and broke. This is one (of many) resentment I used to build a wall between FWH and I and it had to be knocked down before we could work on our marriage in the present. It would be pointless to bring that up from over 30 years ago. I am sure FWH has/had a list of complaints/hurts from and about me, too.

libertyrocks posted 8/23/2013 13:29 PM

I don't know if I can accept Rachel C. It was too long with too many OW. :( I always go back and forth.

I know, sister, I don't want to be a newbie! I want to be an oldie, like you! haha.
But, I always learn from your words of wisdom and experience.

And, wth, pork chops and apples go spendid with one another. They even make chicken and apples baby food nowadays.

AND, everything is great when I don't think about the past...But, I guess that's the trick, not to dwell on it.

catlover50 posted 8/23/2013 13:52 PM

((((Liberty)))))

IMO a truly remorseful spouse does suffer some consequences of guilt, feeling like crap about themselves, knocking themselves out to please us, digging deep into issues, etc. Not that it compares to what the BS goes through, but personally I wouldn't trade. I have felt immense pain, but never felt badly about myself.

And Sister, pork chops and apples are a classic combination!

Good luck Liberty.

tushnurse posted 8/23/2013 14:16 PM

I get what you are saying. I guess the way I finally got past this, was just accepting it.
We all know life isn't fair, and sometimes bad things happen to good people.
So as I healed, and saw my H being the man I loved, and the crazy man disappear I had to accept that I was one of those good people, and move on. He did the work, and we were gonna be ok.

So yah I accept that it happened, and we healed, and became stronger in the end.
However I have been known to go APESHIT CRAZY, I mean like what's wrong with that lady, when I hear someone say "Thats not fair". Yah Fuck you Life is not fair, you have no clue what fair is. Quit your bellyaching because you have to do something that no one else has to. Try living my life, and then come whining to me about fair. Oh and my kids of course were never allowed to utter the phrase.....

Undone1 posted 8/23/2013 14:41 PM

Liberty...

this is the hardest part of R. Forgiveness, moving on, accepting it, not needing to punish our WS's anymore. Nothing about an A is FAIR!!

Don't mis-understand, after 9 months, I am not there yet, but I recognize that I cannot continue to live a life of unhappiness if I am choosing to stay.

My goal ultimately is being happy with the remorseful loving H standing in front of me asking for my forgiveness.

crazyblindsided posted 8/23/2013 18:34 PM

When the shock and denial started to wear off is when I realized that this was a forever traumatic event. That this wasn't going to go away and things would Never. Be. The. Same. Maybe that is why I was so pissed off. An irreversible change that I had no choice or control over but I was the one that was effected the most by their choices. How dare they!!!????!!!!!

'this was a forever traumatic event' is how I feel today at 18 months out. I agree with the others, to give yourself time right now Liberty. I have just recently accepted that I am changed by this event. My outlook, my feelings, my beliefs, my visions, etc. And this is regardless of whether we stay together or not, I have been changed.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:35 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]

Skan posted 8/23/2013 19:39 PM

There's not a darn thing that's fair about this. I remember railing at my husband, speaking straight from the heart, This is all just GREAT for you! You get to go talk to your IC about why you're so broken and work on fixing that. You get to finally get your depression appropriately medicated and learn how to live with it. You get to work on yourself and having done so, have a MUCH better life now. You're getting all of the benefits, and I get stuck with someone who stuck his (this is the R forum so I will leave this part to your imagination) into someone else. I mean, I was railing, just shrieking.

He looked me dead in the eye and essentially said yes, it's not fair. I can't make it fair for you. I can't undo it. I live every day, getting up in the morning, looking into the mirror, and seeing a liar, a thief, an adulterer. Knowing that I am not the man that I thought I was. Knowing that I'm broken and unless I fix myself, I will live as a broken man, untrue to myself and to you, for the rest of the time we have together. I see what my actions have done to you and to us, and I have to live with that, while trying to help you process this. Its not fair to you and it never will be. I'm so sorry for that.

And he's right. No matter what, I am the person who didn't loose my integrity and who didn't violate my vows. And that has helped me to forgive. Never forget, but forgive. That, and time. (((hugs)))

Missymomma posted 8/23/2013 19:54 PM

Liberty, this is a 5 year process. Where you are right now is spot on! It is a stage to work through. Especially when dealing with an addict with multiple women. I am 2 years out and just hitting acceptance. Forgiveness is going to take alot longer!

ccw82 posted 8/23/2013 21:35 PM

Liberty, I feel just the way you (and many other of the responders) feel. When we look at the scoreboard, we see that WH got:

-dating other women when out of town
-multiple fantasies through porn and talking with other people (phone and email exchange)
-his "fantasy hook up sex" with a prostitute
-a beautiful wife who loves him more than life itself, and is really trying to forgive him and move on

Meanwhile, I got:
-a broken heart; grief and unbearable pain
-loss of self worth
-daily struggle over mind movies and unwanted thoughts
-a WH who is NOT the man I thought I married!

How the f*ck does this seem fair?!? I ask him that quite often. The fact that he has to look at himself in the mirror and see the man for what he's done...I don't sympathize with that much. He was able to compartmentalize all of that before so that he could get what he wanted, and I'm sure that's how he gets through each day whilst having to live with himself now.

Ok, I think I'm a little bitter and resentful as well...

Knowing posted 8/24/2013 03:41 AM

You got many helpful replies here but I was going to say what Catlover50 said: we can't completely underestimate the guilt and self-loathing a truly remorseful WS feels. Permanently lowered self-esteem, shame... Just like, I realized that my fWH is my biggest trigger, every time he looks at me he is reminded of what he did!

We can't and shouldn't compare pain, so I won't. I hate it when people say infidelity is worse than rape or some other atrocity...

The WS doesn't (always) show the storm of emotions brewing inside, that's part of who they are, being practiced at deceit and all. But it's there. Sometimes it's not us they want to get away from, but their feelings (the feelings that are triggered by our presence, our love, our support).

He is surely living his consequence now, and in the future he will come face to face with the atrocity of what he's done, either with or without you by his side.

Itstoohard posted 8/24/2013 06:41 AM

I too have like if we R it would be letting him off, but things he has said make me realize that is not the case. Just last evening he said when he thinks about the time he has lost not having the M we have now he could kill himself! I have never heard him say anything like that. So I do believe some WS do have it tough looking in the mirror.

Undone1 posted 8/24/2013 14:19 PM

I think there are consequences that our WS's have to experience:

Watching someone you love hurt/cry/rage and trying to help them heal
Walking on eggshells around you BS
Not being trusted-having to check in, have emails read
Never ending questions about "why" they did this--
Guilty until proven innocent
Children/family/friends knowing they are not the man they thought they were. Having people recognize they didn't have values,honesty, integrity, respect and they were selfish and stupid. The consequences of their actions will follow them in all their close relationships forever.

I was sitting with my H when he spoke to our 20 year old son. Our son said "Honesty is very important to me. I am very disappointed in you" and then walked away so as not to let his Father see him cry. My H felt the impact of my son's few words. I know this moment is emblazoned in my H's head.

How can you compare one person's pain to another person's pain. We are the BS's and have a hard time understanding their mindset. My fWH tells me often he feels grateful that he has the opportunity for transformation and that I stayed.

myperfectlife posted 8/24/2013 20:54 PM

Just had this conversation with my WS today. It was very difficult and in a lot of ways I guess I want him to understand exactly how hurt I am.
I told him he got to do all he wanted and that I've sacrificed everything to remain true to my vows.
We were talking about my upcoming reunion that he's not attending and he was asking if I was basically going to find someone to be with to make things even.
He said if that was the case then he didn't see any point in working on things. (I have filed for D and am in "wait and see" mode for now. I haven't committed to R.)
I told him that he had much higher standards for me than for himself. That he hoped/expected me to stick around after what he'd done but that if I did it, he wouldn't stay.
I have no intention of having a revenge affair and I told him so. Then he said himself " I know, I didn't 'intend' to do what I did either."
Then I told him that I could just tell him I wasn't going to do it, like he told me he never would.
Ouch.
The pain in his eyes, and the terror of him thinking of me being with someone else.
At a certain point after going on about this for about an hour I started to feel sorry for him because I think his imagination may be worse than my mind movies of him with her.
The phrase I have used several times is that staying to Reconcile is his reward and my punishment.
And if he doesn't fix himself, and I don't fix myself, that's exactly what it will be.
Does it have to be that way? I don't think so. I think many who have successfully R'd will tell you that the marriage they have now is a huge reward for them staying, and that yes, the WS still has to live with the fact that they caused all the problems in the first place.
I know my WS is having a very hard time with who he has become. He feels he has nothing, and that if I decide to go through with the D, he will have less than nothing.

RightTrack posted 8/25/2013 00:53 AM

Fairness? I think about this a lot. WH and I both work in the criminal justice field and fairness is a constant motivation and concern. How would you make this fair?? Having an affair on him just brings you down to his level and makes you feel worse about yourself ( I would imagine). Leaving him hurts innocent people, yourself and/or kids/family. Some people find fairness in this. Because of my kids I can't do it. What can I do? Stopping doing his laundry for the rest of his life wouldn't make up for tearing my heart out. I already sold his truck and outed OW to her BS. I told all of his family and my family, he told his friends ( back when I was pursuing D). Still, it's not enough.

I can't count on his conscience punishing him b/c he didn't seem to have one for the last few years.

I'm not giving up just yet. If I come up with something that will level the field without lowering myself or hurting and third parties I'll let you know.

Mack25 posted 8/25/2013 09:57 AM

This thread hits home so much for me as well. I think we can all relate to this thread.

Five months out from what some would consider a minor incident. I still feel like I have to live with all the consequences and all the pain. She got to cheat and move on. I feel that I have been put in a lose-lose situation. I either leave and say that this is unacceptable and hurt my family. Or stay and by staying saying that what she did was acceptable because I'm staying. I hate myself either way.

I do see her hurt, but that hurt has turned into her really not wanting to re-live that night. This leaves me with just more obsessive thoughts.

As for alcohol, at least our WH gave it up. My WW blames the whole incident on being 'so drunk'. But didnt stop drinking, just states-I will never get that drunk again. Alcohol is still a major trigger to me.

Landoes posted 8/25/2013 15:04 PM

Cheating has to be the most selfish act anyone can do. The cheaters are left with the fond memories of their A, while the betrayed are left depressed, angered, and a shell of what once was.
Consequences? I've been feeling the same way. Only consequence that would suffice is leaving and not looking back. But, I can't!

ILINIA posted 8/25/2013 18:56 PM

I feel like all of you do. It is unfair. At least they had a choice.

On a lighter note, one of the consequences is that we are going to swap vehicles. He has to drive the minivan when school starts and I get the sportier car. Lets just see how many 23 year old he can impress with a minivan!

It may be immature, but it makes me smile knowing that will be his vehicle going forward. :)

[This message edited by ILINIA at 6:57 PM, August 25th (Sunday)]