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numbandnauseous posted 8/29/2013 00:30 AM

Here is the handwritten "contract" he gave to me tonight. This comes after I asked him last night why so much of his cash expenditures were labeled as "miscellaneous." (e.g., $300 out of a $400 ATM withdrawal was "miscellaneous.")

I filed for D in June; court date is set for Sep. He says he wants to R, so I am watching to see what he does. We are in in-house separation now.

I am posting this in R after I posted in S/D and they recommended I post here.

Here it goes:

1. In order to rebuild trust, I will commit to a monthly polygraph test for the next 6 months. If these tests are positive, meaning "no deception," tests will be every 2 months for an additional 1 year. If "no deception" in these tests, testing will end at the end of that year (approximately the end of 2014).

2. I will continue to see (CSAT) and follow his treatment plan, in whatever form he recommends. You will continue to have access to him to report on our meetings and progress, but he is my therapist, not you.

3. I will terminate my facebook account.

4. I will continue to keep receipts for all cash transactions and will minimize cash transactions to the greatest extent possible.

5. I will provide you with the password to my personal email account. I will also provide you access to my work email, but not my passwords to my work devices.

In exchange for items 1 through 5 above:
(a) You will refrain from giving me the third degree about cash spending, travel, email correspondence and any alleged misconduct.

(b) We will continue the court hearing until Jan 2014, unless either of us decides that our differences are irreconcilable, at which time a new (and earlier) date may be _____???

(c) You will reduce your therapy to 2 sessions per week for September and October and to one session per week beginning in November.

(d) I will seek to break the lease on my condo as soon as possible.

(e) I will be permitted to: (1) travel to ______ for 3 days in September to meet with (6 guys names) at ____'s home and (2) travel to Las Vegas in October to meet with (5 guys, including all the guys from the "cheating" Vegas trip).

Additional items:

1. No home repair or improvement activities will be pursued or undertaken without prior discussion and mutual agreement (i.e., no calling for door repairs without first consulting each other).

2. Cleaning lady will be reduced to 2 times per month.

3. Our son's counseling will be re-evaluated to determine if the current schedule is overdoing it, with the goal of reducing paid counseling to $250 per month.

summerain posted 8/29/2013 00:47 AM

Personally I feel that the 'contract' is bullshit.

and any alleged misconduct.

= bullshit 'alleged'

(c) You will reduce your therapy to 2 sessions per week for September and October and to one session per week beginning in November.

no freaking way

but the pure gold is

I will be permitted to: (1) travel to ______ for 3 days in September to meet with (6 guys names) at ____'s home and (2) travel to Las Vegas in October to meet with (5 guys, including all the guys from the "cheating" Vegas trip).

HA! what a self entitled person!

sinsof thefather posted 8/29/2013 03:16 AM

He tried to write this very tit for tat. But then he realised that he had eight things he wanted - compared to his only offering you five things. So you both got five things on your 'official' list - his cunningly disguised as letters - and then he just added his other three things on the end as additional numbered items... so he can number them 1-3 instead of 6-8.. - manipulating much?


But it struck me as all just window dressing anyway. What he really wants is 'a' and 'e'. He laid the groundwork with your list and his 'a' .....and then he played what seems to me his real cards with the 'e'. Those two are the biggies on his list, even though he tried to separate them and wrote 'e' as the last item on his (official) 'list of five demands'


It's like 'e' is actually written in *glowing* neon capitals - that's how much it stands out - becuase that's the 'fix' he has in his sights this time, and everything on your list is just what he's prepared to do to GET it.


What he *wants* comes sooner than what you're supposed to be *getting* - so as long as he gets your 'permission' *NOW* he gets what he wants.... to meet up with 'the guys' and 'go to Vegas'...whether the rest of the contract holds up afterwards - or not.


That's what it appears like to me. I know that sounds *really* harsh and maybe I'm being too hard - but that's just how it struck me.


....but now I'm wondering if I'm being too cynical...but the fact is, he just wants to go to Vegas with your permission. Maybe he doesn't plan to actually *PHYSICALLY* DO anything 'wrong' there - but I'm not sure a guys trip to Vegas is a good idea for someone who's this early in CSAT therapy, wouldn't it be like a dry drunk at a party surrounded by beer?

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 3:21 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

confused615 posted 8/29/2013 06:15 AM

Um......NO.

heforgotme posted 8/29/2013 07:02 AM

Why does he want you to reduce your counseling????

numbandnauseous posted 8/29/2013 07:16 AM

He wants me to reduce my IC because of money. I am spending $1200 on IC per month. We have the money, so it does not affect our lifestyle.

[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 7:20 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

LivingALie posted 8/29/2013 07:27 AM

I'd put the contract in the shredder.

Kelany posted 8/29/2013 08:02 AM

I might use it as toilet paper and then give it back to him. That is pure and utter BS. Manipulative all the way. It's designed so he can continue his wayward behavior completely.

musiclovingmom posted 8/29/2013 08:02 AM

nan - I have spent most of the night thinking about this. I know that my response is jaded, so please feel free to ignore. The thing that struck me is that he wants you AND your son to reduce counseling. In my VERY humble opinion, this is his opportunity to keep you vulnerable. If you continue your counseling, you will heal and get stronger. He doesn't want that. He seems to have a strong desire to be in control of the situation and if you are strong enough to contest and stand up for yourself, that throws a kink in his plans. I don't see him taking ANY responsibility here. Why else would he say 'alleged misconduct'? Maybe I have the read all wrong, but this reeks of an abuser mentality to me. I hope I am so wrong. I also hope that you and your son continue to get the help you need - especially since cost is not affecting your lifestyle.

Rebreather posted 8/29/2013 09:33 AM

He is the same guy. I smell NPD.

I suggest running.

JustDesserts posted 8/29/2013 09:42 AM

@Sins:

That's what it appears like to me. I know that sounds *really* harsh and maybe I'm being too hard - but that's just how it struck me.

....but now I'm wondering if I'm being too cynical...but the fact is, he just wants to go to Vegas with your permission. Maybe he doesn't plan to actually *PHYSICALLY* DO anything 'wrong' there - but I'm not sure a guys trip to Vegas is a good idea for someone who's this early in CSAT therapy, wouldn't it be like a dry drunk at a party surrounded by beer?

No, not harsh. Not cynical. SPOT ON!

Dry drunk (or someone in early recovery) at party surrounded by alcohol...great analogy. And NOT a great idea.

Recovery from addiction NEVER happens without changing "people, places, and things". I speak from experience as an alcoholic/addict who spent a substantial time NOT recovering due to NOT changing people, places, and things. And as an alcoholic/addict who did finally get it and is coming up on 19 years clean and sober. Those fighting against recovery who don't give up people, places, and things have one destiny...relapsing.

This contract would be laughable if it weren't so sad and delusional. Sins hits the nail on the head, and everyone else replying is seeing the barely concealed truth - he doesn't want R. Deep down, you're hoping it is somehow otherwise. But deeper down your gut must be telling you what you know is the truth. It doesn't matter that your WH doesn't see it, believe it, or have a clue what he's really doing (though he sounds sly like a fox).

"A" is about general opportunity to cheat (travel) and the untraceable funds to support his addiction. "E" is a preplanned playdate with "people, places, and things". The rest is BS, window dressing, and selfish, delusional gibberish.

I'm a Wayward. And your WH is giving us a bad name! I feel for you. And actually him, too.

JD

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 9:43 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

PamJ posted 8/29/2013 10:05 AM

Ridiculous! Where does he get the idea that he has any ground to negotiate what HE wants at this point?
He's not getting it and he is resentful of you. Entitled is putting it mildly.

HurtButHopeful? posted 8/29/2013 10:20 AM

When I read this contract, I got the feeling Mr. n&n was dictating R, on his terms...giving a little here and there, but digging his heals in over certain things.

Time in Vegas with the same guys who were part of his cheating? No way! He shouldn't even be friends with them anymore.

Sadly, IMHO he is not interested in real R, and you need to continue with the D in September.

((((numbandnauseous))))

Silentthoughts posted 8/29/2013 10:26 AM

Wow, I'm sorry you are in this position. Agree the contract should be toilet paper or if you have a bird, lining for the bottom of the cage. Holy NPD Mowly! and i am a ww.

Type it up with only 1 - 5, add any of your conditions not listed and give it back to him and say this is MY contract for you.

And continue the therapy for you and you child as long as you need and have the $$.

Good luck.

sisoon posted 8/29/2013 12:14 PM

Points 1-5 and d - sound good to me. Point b sounds OK if you come to an agreement to work on your M.

Add'l item #1 has merit on the surface, but it sounds like there's an ulterior motive here, and that bothers me a lot.

On the whole, I'd like to see commitment to:

NC, full transparency (not just the e-mail accounts you know about), willingness to answer any question any time, recognition that he has to prove he's trustworthy, recognition that a poly just isn't enough (IMO, that is, and I hope it's not enough for you),
a commitment to monogamy,
a commitment to spending time together
a commitment to helping you clean the house (since he wants you to give up paid help)
a commitment to being with your son...that's just off the top of my head.

Also, I just don't see how a desire to travel periodically to LV with the guys fits with monogamy. Fishing or hunting (if you don't like that), camping and backwoods hiking or biking (if you don't like doing those things or can't keep up) with the guys makes some sense. Going to NYC for a week of shows and opera with the guys makes sense, if you don't like theater or opera.

But LV markets itself as a place to break through normal boundaries. LV with couples makes sense to me. LV with just male or females - that bothers me a lot, for any participants who are M.

it sounds to me like he's got a long way to go before he becomes a good candidate for R. JMO, and I could be way wrong, of course.

numbandnauseous posted 8/29/2013 12:19 PM

sins - you are amazingly brilliant and spot on re: manipulation and everything else. I like how you noticed the numbers vs. letters to throw me off - I didn't catch that!

music - you are not jaded at all, you are seeing very clearly. Thank you.

I agree with you all. My thoughts:
1-5 are requirements for me to stay M to him, so he doesn't get anything in "exchange" for 1-5.

He just wants to go on his trips, remain an SA and a bachelor; he has no interest in R.

But, it gets even better. This morning, he came into my room and after some pleasant small talk about the kids, he asked me if I had read his letter. I said yes, he asked what I thought. I said I have to think about it some more. He said it is a way to "build trust" and give us some space. I am noticing how he takes what he knows I want - to build trust and a polygraph - and uses it to manipulate me.

Anyway, he then asks me not to share the letter with anyone and then ASKS FOR THE LETTER BACK. I said, how am I going to read it if I don't have it. He said he will give it to me later, but he "unfortunately" doesn't trust me to not show it to anyone. I didn't tell him that I had already shared it with thousands of people on SI.

I am going to call my L to see if I can hefty bag his shit and change the locks today. I want this crazy mother fucker out of my life pronto. Can't believe I gave him yet another chance at R. Live and learn.

lordhasaplan? posted 8/29/2013 12:22 PM

"In exchange for". sorry it all is meanngless after that phrase.

faithhopelove23 posted 8/29/2013 12:33 PM

Have to agree with the others about this "contract".
There's nothing in here to your benefit. It's still all about him. And honestly it sounds VERY financially motivated.

And will honestly say a trip to LV was my WH's 2nd mistake. I abhor LV and wish more people could truly see how dangerous it is for marraiges. WH and I have argued many times over LV trips because his main vendor has a huge conference once a year that he HAS to go to.

#1 and #a: You should be able to ask any and all questions you want and expect to get an honest answer -- polygraphs aside... and a ridiculous thing to suggest. Who would come up with the questions?

#2: I don't like the snide comment about you not being his therapist -- that just means he doesn't want to communicate honestly with you

#3: Anyone can set up an "anonymous" FB account and still keep in contact with anyone else.

#4: Not all places and receipts are obvious and many that cater to cheaters will ring up as something else....or if he is sneaky enough he can find some place that will return for cash.

#5: anyone can setup an anonymous email account that you would know nothing about. And I doubt his employer would be happy with him giving you his password to that email.

#b: just gives him more time to get HIS ducks in a row....I would continue on the path and not put anything off...nothing says you can't reconcile after the next court date!

#c: NO way ...you deserve as much therapy as you need to get stronger and be the best person for you and your son!
#d: umm...no he doesn't get to move back in until YOU are comfortable and invite him back
#e: NO Way IN H3LL.....See personal opinion above.
#1 additional -- have home repairs been a financial issue?
#2 additional -- umm, yeah he can help come and clean if he wants to stop the cleaning lady (although I did stop mine and the lawn service when WH moved out just because I had a very limited budget and was unwilling to spend college funds/savings for it not knowing when I would need it later)

#3 addtional : here's where I would fight til kingdom come....I'd maybe give on some of MY points, but not on anything that had to do with my child!

[This message edited by faithhopelove23 at 12:34 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]

Card posted 8/29/2013 13:00 PM

I guess my first question would have to be, 'where is the transparency in this arrangement?

I really don't see much if any?

Though I agree that this contract is ridiculous, I'm going to comment on some specifics anyways.


1. In order to rebuild trust, I will commit to a monthly polygraph test for the next 6 months. If these tests are positive, meaning "no deception," tests will be every 2 months for an additional 1 year. If "no deception" in these tests, testing will end at the end of that year (approximately the end of 2014).

Interesting? Using a polygraph to keep him accountable.

Expensive! Yes, but if it's affordable it might just work.

Caveat, 'You are present at all tests and he signs a waiver to release all results to you before hand'.


2. I will continue to see (CSAT) and follow his treatment plan, in whatever form he recommends. You will continue to have access to him to report on our meetings and progress, but he is my therapist, not you.

Throwing you a bone!

3. I will terminate my facebook account.

Really? Why hasn't this been done already?

Will he give you the password to this account prior to shutting it down?

What about a keylogger on all his computers? IMO, it's a must!


4. I will continue to keep receipts for all cash transactions and will minimize cash transactions to the greatest extent possible.

How about no cash transactions!
It really is very simple to go without cash with all the debit and credit card availability today.
I'd go exclusively to a bank that will track all transactions on your statements so that none are conveniently forgotten.


5. I will provide you with the password to my personal email account. I will also provide you access to my work email, but not my passwords to my work devices.

This one made me laugh out loud.....
He can give you everything you need, even his work passwords. It's nonsense for him to hold out on anything......
Transparency, Transparency, Transparency!


In exchange for items 1 through 5 above:
(a) You will refrain from giving me the third degree about cash spending, travel, email correspondence and any alleged misconduct.

In other words, 'You need to shut the ______ up'.


(b) We will continue the court hearing until Jan 2014, unless either of us decides that our differences are irreconcilable, at which time a new (and earlier) date may be _____???


An escape clause?

Really!

(c) You will reduce your therapy to 2 sessions per week for September and October and to one session per week beginning in November.

In other words, if YOU get to make decisions about my IC, I get to interfere in yours.


(d) I will seek to break the lease on my condo as soon as possible.

This is more simple than he's making it.

Empty out the condo and turn in the keys to the leaser along with a check for the duration of the lease. Ask them to lease it out ASAP and send back any unused funds once a new tenant is found.

This is what I did!!!
In my case, they had it leased out two months later. They sent a refund for the balance remaining.


(e) I will be permitted to: (1) travel to ______ for 3 days in September to meet with (6 guys names) at ____'s home and (2) travel to Las Vegas in October to meet with (5 guys, including all the guys from the "cheating" Vegas trip).


No!
No!
And, Hell No!


You can always offer to make the trips together or not at all!

Your WH is still living in a fog!

If I had given my wife a contract like this, she would have gladly handed me my ass with a hat on it!

I'd recommend that you think about what YOU 'need' at this point. Protect yourself in every legal way possible.

I'd also ask myself, what could YOU loose if he drags this out for a year? IMO, most waywards aren't thinking very far ahead, but I've seen some that are very strategic in their planning and they burn the BS by dragging out the timeline of the court/finances/lookback periods/etc.

numbandnauseous posted 8/30/2013 16:18 PM

Oh, he's not going to drag it out for a year. I am going to tell him tonight that I can't be M to him anymore and that he needs to move out. We already have our court date scheduled for the end of September.

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