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I think this plays a lot into a successful reconciliation.

I understand the BS, at times, need to carry a load, especially if there is fog.

However, I think it comes down to the WS owning most of the fixing of themselves and a sincere attempt to put the tools in place for the marriage to heal. With that I mean finding a MC, making the appointments, reading - including here, maybe looking into a Retrouville, etc.

We are switching MC, mainly because our current one is 90 miles away. Its time for my husband to take the reigns and find a new one as I found the current one. My IC gave me the name of a guy in town she recommends and I told my husband about him. He has yet to schedule anything (says he has no time to call), read anything or do anything. That's ok... I'm just here watching. I'm seeing that I'm not the priority. But fantasy football is!!

It's amazing what you see when you step back.

I''m seeing that I''m not the priority. But fantasy football is!!

This might be extreme but maybe the point would sink in if he came home to find all of his stuff packed in suitcases. On top of the suitcases put a nice, garishly wrapped fantasy-football themed present and a reservation for a hotel with a note "I wanted give you a gift so I booked you a temporary room at <blank> hotel until you find your own place where we (your family) will not distract you from your true passion. Love ya!"

Privately, or maybe publicly for all I know, he thinks he is justified in neglecting the family for fantasy football because he "deserves the distraction". Hobbies and other interests are good. They''re healthy for all of us, but not at the expense of the M. He''s not getting that so maybe he needs to see there are potential consequences, regardless of whether he is oblivious to them or he is simply acting out in some childish passive-aggressive manner.

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 8:56 AM, August 29th, 2013 (Thursday)]

Lack of effort by my WH is one of the biggest reasons we're separated and not in R.
When I ask, "What are you doing to repair our marriage and to become a healthier individual?" I get, "but I'm trying," "why can't you see what I'm doing?" "nothing I do will ever be good enough for you," etc. I give him credit for the things I see, but he starts making excuses when I ask how many books he has read (none, he has started 3 and hasn't finished any of them), or when I remind him how long ago he told me he was going to schedule counseling.
I can't make him do it, but I'm also not settling. I want a healthy marriage and if he can't do his part to contribute then we don't need to be together.

I agree Rachel, and this time around I'm not lifting one little finger until he proves he is completely dedicated and doing the work. The ball is in his court. He has to decide what he believes will help me, him and our marriage.

If he thinks it's MC, he has to find and book the appt. If he thinks it could be changing his boundaries he has to come up with the changes and implement them and talk to me about it.

I told him what I needed and wanted the first go 'round, I'm not wasting my free time on him and his shit this time. If he wants me, he can EARN me, and he's running out of time.

I am so desperatly sad that my WH seems to think he has done what is necessary and nothing is good enough and I need to live in the present.

Like you I have tried to be patient but it feels like he is forcing me to lack his bags. That breaks my heart.

Kierst13: reading your profile is eye opening. I would not be surprised if my own WH wasn't doing the same thing. It's scary to think he could be hiding it & acting like the perfect spouse & me not be able to figure it out, but, I do believe he is capable of doing it & not feeling a thing. He has turned out to be the cruelest person I've ever encountered. Amazing how a person has no filter & can do things & not feel guilty.

I agree with you- a lot of the time the WS does not seem to want to put an effort into R. My WH was like that, and at times can still act like that- I all but have to stand behind him with piping hot tongs to get him to take charge and do anything.

Part of it is just HIM in general- he doesn't like speaking on the phone to people, he doesn't like to plan things in advance and prefers to fly by the seat of his pants so asking him to schedule something is always something he fights with me about.

But I agree, it says something HUGE about priorities when you step back and see that you are the one trying for them.

My WH and I are moving into a new home soon, and had to sit down and come up with a budget since mortgate is more expensive than what we are paying now. He whined and fussed about having less money for alcohol, and for his chewing tobacco. Then made a comment about how we weren't going to do christmas presents for each other this year (which I vetoed because as a combo x-mas/birthday persent, I got him the x-box one. I already preordered and paid for it, so I told him he can kiss my butt, but he is getting me something very nice for christmas). What I hear him saying when he makes comments like that is, "My alcohol and chew is more important than your christmas present and more important than you." He doesn't get it.

When I step back, I see him buying video games, and then complaining that we have no money for a date night. *rolls eyes*

You're completely right, Rachel.

The hardest part of R is trusting that the very person who eviscerated you will "make things right."

My WH turned to the very escapist things that led him TO the affairs after this past DD. It took some big, BIG confrontations for him to see that anything that was even tangentially connected to his previous behavior was ACTING OUT THE SAME BEHAVIORS STILL.

It's so easy for the WH/WW/WSO to fool themselves with the universal, "But I didn't mean it that way! This time was different!" compartmentalization.

That attitude is like the antimatter for the substance of real R.

It wasn't until WH could grasp that idea on his own that we weren't just spinning wheels. For the first time since this all hit March 2012, I feel like we are in real R now. He's taking steps on his own. He has a stack of books on his nightstand and he reads them on his own. He sets limits and boundaries for himself.

Most tellingly, he monitors himself about what he's doing/thinking/choosing. That's such a huge shift, I'm both stunned and EXTREMELY cautiously hopeful.

It wasn't about me nudging him along. It was about him choosing to do this and mean it more than anything else. It was all HIS effort.

Yep...stepping back here too. Wife insisting MC is important, we both agree our old MC has served her purpose...time to find a new one. But so far she has called 1 and left a message....he called her back and left a message....been 2 weeks thus far.

No big deal to me...have plenty of books to read and other things going on. But it is curious to step back and witness quietly and see where their actions put priorities in order in their lives.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:10 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]

I know how you feel sometimes. Our MC gave us a book to read to try and help with intimacy. She would rather read Twilight at night before bed. Sucks. I stopped asking her to read it with me. Crap like that makes me want to 180 again.

Undonelife, I hope you never go through that. I cannot put into words the devastation my WH has wreaked in my life.

As others have said it is truly telling to step back and watch their actions and see where their priorities land.

I learned the hard way that if they aren't willing to do the work and research for R themselves, it really doesn't hold a deep meaning to them.

I agree 100%. I tried with everything I had to do it his way. It didn't work. I kept things burried until I couldn't stand it anymore.

We went to MC, I found books to read and I went to IC. He started canceling MC appointments, never went to IC, and as far as books-I threw them out.

When I told him I wanted a D he decided to do the work and I wish I had done it ealier.

I feel the WS has to help the BS heal.

As a WH, it is ABSOLUTELY on the WS to help the BS heal. I agree that any WS (if they are truly remorseful and serious about R) needs to take a good hard look and make the changes necessary. For a long time, I told my Beautiful BS that I was sorry when my hobbies took over my life, but I didn't make the effort to change myself. I changed for a little while, but then would find new hobbies. It wasn't until I realized how much I was taking away from my family that I decided to make a change for good. I'm still working on it. As they say "Rome wasn't built in a day". But I feel I'm on a good path now. As for the reading, I don't completely agree but rather agree to some extent. I have never been much of a reader. I am seriously the world's SLOWEST reader. So for me, finishing books takes 10x as long as my wife. I'm still working on a book that took her 3 days...and I've been reading it for 6 weeks! It's not that I don't want to put forth the effort. For me to accomplish reading a book, I practically have to sit somewhere quiet, where I won't get distracted, and can focus only on the book. Now, the only place I have that is when I'm in the bathroom. So bathroom time has become my reading time. I still have other books to read, it just takes me a while to get to them.