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How to get the truth?? long sorry

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olwen posted 8/29/2013 10:19 AM

Sorry this is my third post today, my head is spinning.

MY question is how do you get the truth out of them?

I have tried everything, suggested a lie detector test (out of the question due to money) his calm response was anything you want sweetie but remember they are not accurate, we will find the money if you want one but is it worth it?

I have threatened to not accept his story and separate. I have offered an amnesty, his chance to confess all with no repercussions. Nada. He sticks to his story like glue and claims to have forgotten lots, blocked it out he says, but that he is 99% certain the info I have is the truth.

Sorry to rehash my story again but I have inserted the relevant questions. I want him to read this as when we talk he denies everything and I lose my train of thought cos I want to believe him.

So why does so much not add up? If he just wanted a friend why did he keep their friendship and texting secret? If he didn't fancy her at all why did he kiss her twice -he claims he did it to try and sort out his confused feelings, she made him feel so good there had to be something between them but after the second kiss he realised supposedly he still loved me and felt nothing other that friendship for her.

Why did he allow himself to be seduced? If he was as turned off by her advances as he says why did he do what she wanted? He says it was panic. She knew too much and was unpredictable. He was scared she would tell me of the kisses, hand down top, texting etc. He was caught off guard and couldn't think so he did the bare minimum she expected. She got angry and dropped him off in a mood. If he didn't want her why not open the blasted car door and get the hell out of there!?

He says he just stayed friends the next 3 weeks to keep her quiet. There was nothing more physical again. He did however go with her at lunchtimes on her errands, cos she sulked if he didn't. HE claims he was too scared to end it in case she told me so she had to be the one to do it. That's why he let her come here for me to do her nails. So she would see his family and back off. It worked she called it off the next working day. I however had spidey senses on overdrive and started questioning him about his strange coldness to her when she was acting doting towards him. I knew something was up.

So if he wanted nothing more to do with her and brought her here to end it what happens next makes no sense!

That weekend was horrible. I asked him that Saturday night what his feelings for me were and he was guarded. I asked if he had feelings for her and got a delayed mumbled no, sounded more like a yes to me it was that weak. I went to bed in tears.

The next day I pushed harder, he blew up and said he didn't find me attractive or love me and stormed out.

Now why would he say that unless he still had feelings for her? Or had decided he didn't want to be with me after all...

On the Monday she broke it off cos meeting me made me seem real, but when he came home and I confronted him with my theory of an ea he denied it and told me he needed her, she was his best friend etc all her good points and how they were 'just good friends'

why do that if he had got his way and she had called it off that day?

Later that night he agreed it was an ea and they had text a 'few' times.

The next day he confessed to my shrink that he had 'got too close' to a female colleague and that was why I was breaking my heart in the office.

That night I stupidly asked for the password to our phone records. He denied knowing it. I asked to see his phone, he handed it right over, totally empty everything deleted. If I had just gone on site and done forgotten password I could have accessed info but cos I warned him inadvertently he changed both password and email address so I could not get the info. I rang him at work and let rip what a lying bastard he was. He came home and verbally ripped me to shreds, he admitted they text 2-3 hours a night, shouted at me and went back to work. He texted her on the way. I then text her and gave her a piece of my mind. I got a nasty response as expected. When H got back to work she flew at him for letting me 'drag her into it' he signed onto fb and changed his details there. I got a notification as I was sat crying. He later said his next move was to change access to the bank account. I am afraid I lost the plot, my world had turned upside down and I took a big overdose. I was out of it in hospital for 24 hours. I have been told H kept crying and insisting it 'was just texting' as I was trying to attack him which I can't remember. I was out of it.

Got home in the early hours and he was very apologetic saying he only wanted me etc and that nothing else had happened. Next day I got access to the phone records and found 750 texts in a 6 week period. Now normally he only answers about half my texts, our records show I text him 2-3 times as often as he does me. He admitted he always answered her texts though so as not to annoy her.

We struggled on and have been up and down ever since. My dad died and H was amazing. Then I got recurrent oral thrush and he admitted to kissing her twice when I made out it was the only way I could be getting it. Then on father's day he stood in the kitchen after opening his gifts and told me I love you but am not in love with you and I am leaving. He grabbed his bag and told our son he was leaving. Five minutes later he was back saying he did love me but couldn't live with the guilt so came home and confessed. He claimed he thought it would be easier for me if he dumped me rather than deal with his confession. It came right out of the blue as I thought we were in R. I said I would forgive him but it would not be an easy road and I needed the FULL truth.

WEll that's been the problem. Everything he says is 'probably, I think, perhaps, i'm not sure I don't remember'. He says he cant remember his reasons, feelings, what was said, why he made the decision to have sex with her,it's all theories and they are getting very jumbled up.

The facts of his story, how, where, when, who, in what way etc have not changed once since his confession but it's all very 'sanitised' imo. Things like he didn't fancy her, never kissed when they had sex, stopped after a minute, she felt all wrong, didn't hold her or touch her anywhere else, he shut his emotions down to do the deed just to stop her telling me about the ea, she was like a statue when they kissed and later had sex, she never kissed him back and never once touched him in any way, he got his lighter from down her top but never saw or touched her breasts, just a passing bump with the back of his hand. She seduced him, just asked if he wanted to see her sexy undies, he says he didn't answer and she just lifted her skirt and asked if he wanted to touch. Obviously he did cos he spent the next 20 seconds (according to him that was all it was) masturbating her. Then she nodded to the back seat and asked if he wanted to. He claims he said no but did it anyway, he can't remember what she said to change his mind.... I could go on but you get the picture..

I think now he has confessed the stark truths of the matter are irrelevant. Like he keeps saying, I had an affair! it's his stock answer when I ask awkward questions. Like at the end of the day he has an affair so the details are irrelevant - I know what I need to and that is that he lied and cheated. That's the important stuff in his eyes.

He claims to have 'blocked it all out' and doesn't remember but I really think there is more to the story and it's making me miserable. I think I believe him, his justification seem to make sense then after a while I start thinking and feel it just doesn't add up!

How do you get them to tell the full truth? I think he is scared I won't cope and honestly I don't know how I will but it had to be better than a story that just does not add up.

Am I asking too much, should I just be happy with what he has told me? I feel I have been made a big enough fool of without swallowing an 'I didn't want any of it, just friends, line......

He seems 100% into R and is trying his hardest to make it up to me. He is doing all he should be but I just think there is more he has no intention of telling me. They still work together but he says he only speaks briefly about work and no pleasantries. He has applied for lots of other jobs and is trying to get her moved away from him.

Any advice?

[This message edited by olwen at 10:41 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

NeverAgain2013 posted 8/29/2013 10:43 AM

Wow, he's extremely verbally and emotionally abusive, he's manipulative, condescending, patronizing, self serving, and sneaky.

He tells you his watered-down version of the story and the second you don't believe it or have doubts about the validity of what he's said, he goes off like a bomb and tells you he doesn't find you attractive and doesn't love you????? Or he verbally slices you to literal ribbons and then storms off.

His problem, loud and clear, is that he has zero remorse.


All he wants you to do is believe his very slanted story, shut the hell up, and move forward. I know you say he appears to be 100% into reconciliation, but your post belies that claim. Hiding passwords, screaming at you, manipulating you into choosing not to do the polygraph, telling you he isn't in love with you, verbally abusing you every chance he gets, lying and telling you he 'can't remember because he's blocked it out,' and on and on and on.

Olwen, those are not the actions of someone who truly regrets what he's done. I'm really sorry, but that's my opinion.

lieshurt posted 8/29/2013 10:53 AM

Based on what you've posted, I don't believe you are ever going to get the truth from this guy. He is in CYA mode and that doesn't appear to be changing.

I think that what you have to decide is can you live with the continued lies or not. I don't believe you can. I know I couldn't. From what you've described, he is not somebody I'd remain with.

olwen posted 8/29/2013 10:54 AM

Never again, Sorry I don't think my post could have been very clear. All that denial and abuse came BEFORE he had confessed and was still hiding his affair from me. he was still in his affair until the Monday after she came here so that horrible weekend when he was verbally abusive was when he had confessed to no more than a close friendship. But he claims that since they had sex 3 weeks before I started asking questions he had been wanting the A to end. This does not add up to me if he could be so cruel when I got suspicious. He says he panicked and was trying to push me away rather than me find out the truth.

Then on the Monday she ended affair and later that night after many denials he accepted it as an ea. That was all I knew for the next three months although two kisses were confessed to in that time.

He confessed to sex in July and told me his story, since then he has been mortified about his behaviour and the model husband.

I just don't think his confession was the full truth when it comes to his reasons why and the actual details. I believe he has told me the bare facts and downplayed the affair as he believes he had an affair and that makes the things he can't remember irrelevant. All the facts I should need are there in the fact he did it. everything else is just details he doesn't want to remember for him. He says he has tried many times and just can't remember.

olwen posted 8/29/2013 10:55 AM

Lies hurt, what does cya mean?

lieshurt posted 8/29/2013 10:58 AM

CYA = cover your ass

lieshurt posted 8/29/2013 10:59 AM

He confessed to sex in July and told me his story, since then he has been mortified about his behaviour and the model husband.

He was truly mortified and the model husband, then he'd be telling you the truth.

olwen posted 8/29/2013 11:08 AM

I think my post my be unclear.

Affair lasted 6 weeks. first 2 weeks secret friends and texting. Week 3 she put his lighter down her top and he put his had down to look for it. Later that week he kissed her twice. Next night she picked him up, drove him to a car park and seduced him.

Next day he came home saying he had a terrible night and would never go out without me again.

3 weeks later she comes here to get her nails done and I get suspicious. I questioned h over that weekend and that was when he was verbally abusive. Trying to cover his tracks and push me away rather than admit what he had down. That Monday she ended it and he confessed to an ea after defending himself for hours. A ended that day.

I found out weeks later that they had kissed twice during wk3. it was July before I knew of sex, also in wk3.

Since confession of ea he has seemed a changed man. Back to my old H. But I had the confessions to deal with when I thought we had been in R.

Since then he has been great I just think his story is too sanitised and not the full truth but I can't get any more out of him and my gut says I have only part of the story as his reaction to me when I got suspicious is not the reaction of a man who wanted to end his affair. Even on the Monday night after they had split his actions make no sense. Why defend his friendship with her then? Why tell me how wonderful she was it only made me more suspicious. That night he admitted an ea in the end.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

He says all his horrible comments about me were to push me away and he was defending her cos she had not ended it yet and if he went against her she might tell me.

[This message edited by olwen at 11:15 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

NeverAgain2013 posted 8/29/2013 11:11 AM

Oh sorry Olwen, I have a better idea of the timeline, now. Thanks for clearing it up.

In truth, I think you've still only heard a real watered down version of the truth - he blames her 100% and refuses to take any responsibility. If he's not claiming he was afraid she'd tell you about the affair if he didn't do her bidding, then he was claiming she'd pout and make his life miserable.

It just seems as though he's trying to put ALL the blame for every single thing he did on HER shoulders.

I'd be willing to bet she has a drastically different story to tell.

Unfortunately, it's pretty common for cheaters to claim, "I blocked it out - I can't remember!" when you start pressing for the truth.

They remember. They just don't want to hand you any more ammo than they have to.

That's why LiesHurt says he's in CYA mode. He clearly is. If he's not blaming HER for every single thing that happened, then he's claiming he can't remember or that he blocked it out because it's just so horrible.

Honestly? I'd borrow the $400-600 a polygraph test would cost - beg, borrow, or steal it if you have to. You haven't nearly heard the whole truth yet.

I hope you're doing well today.

Josephine01 posted 8/29/2013 11:15 AM

My guess is Neveragain did understand what you said Olwen. I don't see him as having Remorse and manipulating through this ordeal. Giving you TT's just to satisfy your questions.

IMO, he thinks if he says anymore you will never forgive him. So it is better that you don't. Do you now have access to his electronics and emails? If not that is a huge red flag.

I am sorry (((Olwen)))

confused615 posted 8/29/2013 11:15 AM

I notice a pattern.

He does alll of this shit for OW..running errands with her..did the "bare minimum" expected,so as not to annoy her or upset her..brought her into your home so she could see you and DS...etc..etc..all because he didn't want to annoy or upset her.

Why was he so concerned about annoying her...why was he willing to hurt you to avoid annoying her?

His story is confusing and makes no sense..because it's not true. Your gut is telling you there is more..and what he has told you doesn't add up.

olwen posted 8/29/2013 11:22 AM

I have access to everything, phone, email, laptop etc. He has been away on business last night and took our son so I wouldn't worry.

TBH it's me that blames her. He admits he was weak and pathetic and only got hooked because she made him feel good. That he didn't want to upset her or his attention would stop so he bent over backwards to keep her happy as she was a distraction from his real life with me which I will admit was in a bit of a mess. He blames himself cos he led her on by acting the single idiot. She knew he was married though and he would moan and she would boost him up, oh aren't you good to her, oh you're such a nice guy, you should have the freedom to live your own life not constantly be looking after your family etc. He loved hearing all that!

He admits he got his feelings for her confused and may have kissed her to find out how another woman could make him so happy if he loved me. he says after the kiss he knew he loved me but was too scared of offending her to stand up to her.

Something just doesn't add up for me. If he knew he didn't want her physically why allow himself to be seduced?

He does admit he thought before they had sex he would have probably kept the EA going cos he got so much attention and ego stroking from it.

Could he really have had sex with her just so he wouldn't lose the attention she gave him?

also he claims after the sex he wanted NOTHING from her not even and EA so why did he act the way he did when I got suspicious?

I don't think I will ever get the answers.

[This message edited by olwen at 11:24 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

Lovedyoumore posted 8/29/2013 11:47 AM

He should absolutely read Not Just Friends by Glass with you and discuss it as you read each chapter. After that, he needs to quite the jiving, cool, do not remember type answers. If he continues then R as a couple is not possible. You may learn to cope and live with it, but the wall will always be there unless he makes a good faith effort to tear it down and demolish it. He cannot have a real relationship with you if he has to keep shouting over the A wall to communicate and crawl over that wall every time he wants to be with you.

When A's get disclosed, the truth that comes out at first is like an iceberg. You can bet there is more under the surface to see. Unfortunately how quickly you get the truth depends on a liar and cheater to give it to you.

Ask him which means more to him: you, your family and marriage or his A, his OW, and his secrets. Right now you are last and you deserve to be first.

olwen posted 8/29/2013 12:11 PM

He has just got back. Very cagey with me. I have told him I don't believe him and have asked him to read this thread tonight, mull it over and get back to me.

I really hope you can find the courage to tell me the truth H.

The look on his face when I talked to him and the way he held himself looked very much like I am right and he has not told me the full truth. It looked like he has realised I am not going to give up on getting the truth and he is going to have to admit it and deal with it.

I am scared but it will be better that living with the ache in my gut that things just don't add up.

TS68 posted 8/29/2013 12:37 PM

First of all, how were you able to find out they had sex?? I might have missed it in your post, but I don't think he told you, or did he?
I find myself in a very similar situation. Only I know far less but suspect much more. On our 20 year anniversary (yesterday) I brought up the time my husband told his OW that he wanted to build a bedroom in the basement to get away from me that I was always raging at him. Well , when I brought that up, he told me I have to let it go and then proceeded to call me a c__t and a bitch and ungrateful and threw pillows at me. See, like one if your responders put so well, they just want you to "believe the slanted story and shut the fuck up and move on"
Bingo. My h reacts so negatively if I bring up any of his lies. It is like "hey I already handled that... I will scare the shit out if you so you don't bring it up again"
If I could only get proof, then I would be marching into the divorce attorneys office without looking back.
Without proof he will deface me

olwen posted 8/29/2013 12:48 PM

He told me in June (think I may have said july somewhere but it was june. 3 months to the day he had sex with her. Affair had been over since 3 wks after they had sex so he took his sweet time in telling me and chose the worst possible way to do so. He just said he didn't love me anymore, walked out, came back 5 mins later and blurted it out. Said the guilt was killing him. He lost 2 stone and looked awful. I think the love, cards and gifts on Father's day tipped the scales.

I hate that we are all having to deal with this shit! And why do they have to get so nasty when they are found out? I wish they would all face what they did and tell us as soon as they realised they had feelings for someone else or even straight after the deed, no tt would have made things so much easier but like many I had 3 months of it and who knows, depending on what he says later perhaps even longer...

[This message edited by olwen at 12:50 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]

Chrysalis123 posted 8/29/2013 13:02 PM

the ache in my gut that things just don't add up

Trust your gut. It is trying to tell you something.

whattheh posted 8/29/2013 13:11 PM

The truth will set you both free. Wish these cheaters could understand the true meaning of honest communication and drop the damage control.

Damage control just causes more damage. My H finally told me the whole truth and details I needed and in hindsight it has helped rebuild trust and increased our emotional intimacy. Even though it was a difficult process to go thru it has strengthened our bond. My H was terrified I would leave him so I kept reassuring him that wasn't the case. He took the risk of telling me the truth which allowed us to be able to move forward. And I took a leap of faith to stay with him.

I also kept asking my H to let me make my own decisions based on the truth. When they refuse us the full truth they are still disrespecting us. Their secrets have to be exposed to move forward.

[This message edited by whattheh at 1:18 PM, August 29th (Thursday)]

sisoon posted 8/29/2013 13:16 PM

Some random thoughts & opinions...

I don't think there's a limit on the number of posts you can make in a day, as long as they adhere to the guidelines. There's got to be a technical limit on the amount of data that can go to and from the server, and there may actually be a limit on the number of posts, but I don't think 3 comes close.

It sounds like your H is not accepting full responsibility for what he did. Not answering clearly and unequivocally sounds like his way of saying - more to himself than to you - 'maybe I'm not as bad as all that.' This is a yellow flag, at least - he can't R unless he takes full responsibility for cheating and its consequences.

It sounds like he's using his devastation over his actions as a way to avoid actually being remorseful. R takes work. For a WS, it's especially difficult - he has to face all the pain he's been trying to avoid. He should be devastated - if he wants to R, he needs to work through his reluctance to do the necessary work, and then he needs to do the necessary work. This site is filled with remorseful fWSes who found the strength to heal themselves. Your H has the strength he needs. All he has to do is decide to use it on behalf of himself and your M. If he thinks he's too weak to look deep inside and change, he's too weak to be a good H.

Forget ow's role. He let himself get seduced. He could have stopped himself. He's responsible, not ow, no matter how manipulative she may be.

It sounds like you've got a major communications impasse, and MCs are trained in helping in exactly this sitch. Have you considered MC?

You seem to know a lot about the A - i.e. the truth. What's missing for you? Is it that you just want clear answers? Or is it something else?

Again, the above are thoughts and opinions in response to what you've written, but they're filtered through whatever blinders I put on today, so I could be way off.

Josephine01 posted 8/29/2013 13:17 PM

Said the guilt was killing him. He lost 2 stone and looked awful. I think the love, cards and gifts on Father's day tipped the scales.

On Father's day he told you he didn't love you and walked out on you and the kids because of guilt? I wonder if it wasn't the guilt he felt for this OW having to be alone when he was with family and then realized his mistake. Your right things don't add up. But, one thing someone who is thinking of his family doesn't do is hurt his children on father's day to help himself.

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