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How blatantly honest should I be in MC ?

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Hope2B posted 9/3/2013 01:51 AM

I'm calling my HMO tomorrow and setting up an appointment with a marriage therapist/counselor who has expertise with infidelity--and hope I don't see anyone I know when we go for the appointment (I went thru grad school & being a therapist was going to be my second career until I realized I loved teaching more).

I know being honest is required, but just how honest do I have to be about our sex life?

For his tall and broad body (now overweight by about 65 lbs), he has a very undersize penis. When flaccid, it looks like a button resting in a nest of pubic hair. I didn't marry him for his penis size.

I have compassion for something he cannot help because he was born that way--his penis size and how it (doesn't) work--except it worked for his affair & he primed it with medication to be sure it worked for the 10 - 20 seconds it takes him to get off.

I know I will be tempted to vent my anger on his penis and about my unsatisfactory sex life with him because of the betrayal and my frustration. It would take an effort for me to not disparage and belittle him and his small, relatively non-working penis, but it's also something the MC should know, right?

Sex with him prior to the decades of celibacy (where I finally gave up because of so much frustration and him blaming me, denying he had a problem, etc) was less than satisfactory. I would be very glad to NOT ever have sex with anyone but myself for the rest of my days, and really, I do not want to have sex with him, even though we shared a "reconnect" after I found out (a very frustrating-as-usual for me "reconnect")

How can I be honest in MC and not address this issue?

More detailed info is in my post on the Just Found Out thread. Tonight, he made some comment about a commercial we saw on TV, saying did I want one for my birthday or Xmas. His own birthday is coming up mid month.

I said he had his little "affair" since last July, and during my birthday, Christmas, our Anniversary, and Valentine's Day, he was lying to me and betraying me, and didn't that bother him? I said I wasn't feeling much like doing anything to honor any special birthdays or anything coming up. (This was also my way of telling him not to expect any birthday gifts from me this month.)

He says yeah, it bothered him. Then I said "Didn't it bother you enough to stop?" and he turns it on me and says anything he says is unsatisfactory and I'll twist his answer, so why should he bother.

I then ask, okay, Why did you continue the behavior?

He says he hasn't thought about why so far & he doesn't know. I mention that he's had since Feb to think about it (that's when I found out).

He's not exactly giving me any extra attention or being super nice to me, to try and make things better or show me that he's contrite. He's just Happy Hank, going his happy way. He knows I'm a strong woman, and maybe he thinks I don't need this, but I do and I tell him so. He's a simple guy to the point of ignoring the obvious, so I often have to use my words and clearly communicate with him...and he's soooo happy go lucky, nothing is ever bad or really wrong. A simpleton is more like it.

I realize this post may sound like a vent, in which case this would be the wrong forum and I apologize, so if someone could please send me a private msg, I'll edit this post and go over to post on the other forum.

Me: early 60s
Him: early 60s
Married since 1980
No children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
(His affair-since July 2012--says it was only 8 times, that being about once a month until I found out)

[This message edited by Hope2B at 2:00 AM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]

devasted30 posted 9/3/2013 02:18 AM

Will you be going to IC as well? If so, then you could talk to about the sexual issues then. I feel you need to be very honest in MC/IC or you are just wasting your time and theirs. But, I also do not think you need to be deliberately cruel. You don't want to play that game - lowering yourself to someone elses standard?, do you?
Sounds like you are still extremely bitter as well you should be, but if you truly want R, then you need to walk softly while carrying a BIG stick. IMHO

HurtsButImOK posted 9/3/2013 04:48 AM

so sorry you are hurting. Finding out the efforts they go to for APs that they don't for us is just an extra bit of pain to have to swallow.

Caution - once the words are said they can never be unheard.

If you want R you may be able to phrase your dissatisfaction in a constructive way. Maybe focus on what you like and need to satisfy you whether they be acts of service, touch etc. It really is about your needs.

He's not exactly giving me any extra attention or being super nice to me, to try and make things better or show me that he's contrite.

Is this ^^ the crux of the issue that you should address in MC? What should he be doing?

A somewhat crass saying but 'its not the wand its the wizard behind it'. It sounds like he could be doing more to help you feel safe, appreciated and satisfied.


nekorb posted 9/3/2013 05:37 AM

Remember those *i* statements!!

"I feel like I wasn't worth the effort to try and have sexual intercourse with me."

"I feel hurt that more effort wasn't made to make intercourse with me possible."

"I feel hurt that no effort was made to learn other ways to enjoy a sexual relationship that did not include intercourse."

These are just examples of therapist says the one hard and fast rule about *i* statements is that they can NEVER ever ever ever contain the word YOU.

You can't say, "I feel hurt that YO U didn't make the effort to....

Just a suggestion.


confused615 posted 9/3/2013 05:38 AM

I think you should be honest..but temper your words.

You have every right to voice your dissatisfaction. I get the impression that when HE wants to get it up,when HE wants to have sex..he can. But with you he has put you through "decades of celibacy" and before that,he was a minute-man who never bothered with making sure you had an orgasm. But for his AP,he was willing to take meds to insure he would be able to get it up and keep it up long enough to impress the OW. Now that the A is over,he's back to not taking any meds or putting any effort into pleasing you sexually. Correct?

Hell yes I'd bring *that* up.

As for the size of penis..again,I have the impression that once erect,has the potential to be pleasurable..(omg..the things we say on here..Thank goodness it's anonymous... )..though maybe not overly large. He can't help that..and penis size really makes no difference...a man with a 10 inch penis can be a bore in bed,while a man with a 4 inch penis can make a woman see stars. So,really his penis size isn't the problem. It's that he has sexually neglected you for years..but made an effort for/with OW. Im so sorry. That has to be so painful.

I say be honest..but not cruel. There are a few things I would like to say to my WH,but haven't. Because I know it would be mean...truthful..but mean. And while he may deserve it(some days), *I* don't want to live with the knowledge that I said those words out loud..because once said,they can't be taken back.

painpaingoaway posted 9/3/2013 06:45 AM

Wow, this is without a doubt a very very touchy subject, and honestly, I'm not quite sure how exactly it should be handled, so I do hope men will chime in here to help you deal with this.

All I can tell you is that based on what I have gathered over the years, is that a woman should never, ever insult a man about penis size, just as a man should never, ever insult a woman about her body size or beauty. I think those subjects are equally hurtful, painful, and extremely destructive to both genders. Once spoken, I really dont think the pain could ever be undone.

I think you have so many multiple layers of issues and dysfunction in your marriage, that honestly I don't think penis size should be at the top of the list of issues to discuss, and as Confused said,

penis size really makes no difference...a man with a 10 inch penis can be a bore in bed,while a man with a 4 inch penis can make a woman see stars.

I believe your H's unwillingness to attempt to please you sexually in other ways, and his attitude of 'blaming' you for the problems in your sex life need to be addressed before ever even venturing into the 'size' issue, because, quite frankly, there is nothing that he could do about that issue anyway, other than to lose the extra 65 lbs you say he is carrying which would add an inch or two to his penis. (I heard Dr Oz say that for every 30 lbs a man loses, he gains back an inch of length).

confused615 posted 9/3/2013 06:48 AM

WH lost 50 pounds..Dr Oz is correct.

Nature_Girl posted 9/3/2013 11:21 AM

It sounds like you need quite a bit of IC before you attempt MC. I don't mean this as a way to insult you, I mean this as a way to help you. You have a lot of well-deserved & understandable rage & anger. Your IC would be the best place to discharge that negativity and sort through it. Your IC would also be the place for you to honestly answer the question if the affair was a dealbreaker for you or not. The posts I read from you sound like it was.

TxsT posted 9/3/2013 11:34 AM

You need to be completely and totally honest about Anything in your marriage that has caused past resentment in either you or him. Not only do you have to bring up items that haven't worked for you but you have to be brutally honest about yourself and be willing to say openly and honestly what your failings have been as well. You may not right now think you have any but I dare any BS on here to be able to say and put into writing that there is nothing worng with them or that they in no way contributed to the disfunction of their marriage. You are where you are today because things were not working between you and your H. Figure out what those things were......they will start to reveal the WHYS. If you are honest on both sides of the fence the why should become very apparent. If it doesn't dig deeper!!!


[This message edited by TxsT at 11:37 AM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]

TxsT posted 9/3/2013 11:35 AM

I also agree with Pain.....don't attack. Figure out how you can say things using feeling not blame. Blaming is a one way ticket to A will never be released from its hell!


EvenKeel posted 9/3/2013 13:25 PM

Is it an option to see a sex counselor as well?

As others stated, sizes vary...but that is no excuse not to feel the intimacy, connection and appreciation. That is an entirely different problem.

letitout posted 9/3/2013 14:18 PM

In a fit of anger I told my WH he had a small penis and that was one of the reasons why we didn't have sex for 10 years. It didn't even phase him. He said well the prostitutes told him he was a good size and he believes it, because they said it. That said, I wish I hadn't said it and told him later that I was sorry, and I was. As said here, it was cruel and I don't like to see myself like that. My WH is also overweight. I've been getting him to lose weight and then he could gain somewhere else?

Lionne posted 9/3/2013 20:19 PM

I love SI. Never IRL would I be able to hear these amazingly blunt, and honest, HELPFUL answers.
And Hope, my advice is a cliche..."Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean..."

Hope2B posted 9/3/2013 21:51 PM

I guess the bottom line is that I really don't want to have genital sex anymore. IC will bring out some issues that would be hurtful to my husband during MC, and he cannot help it because he was born that way physically. A sex therapist is focused on ways for couples to be closer and more intimate, and often that means penetrative sex.

I don't want that.

I know it seems that I'm closed to the possibility, and I am. Too many years of frustration and anger about it. His fondling and me using a vibrator, and a hand job for him are things I'd be willing to do, and have done recently (that was a surprise--I guess a good night's sleep can do that for me because it's been about 5 or 6 or so months since we tried reconnecting after I found out).

I want him to use his words more often to express how sorry he is. I want him to be more thoughtful around the house and pay attention to the details that make life better--pick up your mess, wipe up that stain from food you dropped on the floor etc.

Even when he was at a normal weight, he still had a 4 inch penis, so losing weight isn't gonna make him bigger, longer, harder, thicker, and for me, penis size is a factor--and as I said before in a post, I didn't marry him for his penis.

Thank you, scaredyKat, for the reminder of "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."

StillGoing posted 9/3/2013 22:10 PM

I dunno. I think it's good to talk about it but from a position of figuring out a solution for yourself and not venting. I could zero in on how my wife busted her ass to be in shape while she was fucking some other guy and now has slacked off (I have just as much), and I think going into an MC session with the intention of basically saying "You're fat, I don't want to fuck you" to a woman is like beating her vagina with a furious raccoon covered in glue and iron filings, no matter how tactfully worded or even truthfully spoken.

I think my wife looks absofuckinglutely beautiful and sexy, mind, and really the part that bothered me isn't how she looks but how she paid attention to what she looked like for someone else; that she spent all that time and energy for him, but not me. Caveat: I understand why and it does not bother me (well, it does a little but in that irrational FEELINGS way that makes me think I must be part woman because like Snotlout said in that new How To Train Your Dragon cartoon "Heartbreak? Don't be stupid, I'm a boy I don't have a heart"), I use this past experience in the present for illustrative purpose.

So he has a small dick and it bothers you, but is the root of it that he went to the effort during his A for someone else, where you had accepted shortcomings? I really didn't set that up for puns, they just came. Fuck. Sorry.

Be honest, absolutely, but be open to the possibility your focus is a part of a larger whole.

joeboo posted 9/3/2013 22:27 PM

An MC can only be as effective as the information they are provided. Our MC was actually a certified sex therapist. I am a little under average and my fww proclaimed how one of her AP's was so well endowed he had more wiener than she had who-who. Of course my wife didn't bring it up in MC, but when it came time for one-on-one with the MC, I admitted my shortcomings because I thought maybe it would help her to understand the marriage dynamic and the potential motivation for my wife's A(s). I was much more comfortable admitting it to a woman MC, especially one that was a sex therapist. My only issue was her only reply was "oh, I'm so sorry. But if she loves you it shouldn't matter". Not exactly an ego boosting reply, but it's not like I can take it back to walmart and exchange it for a bigger one, so even if I don't like it, I'm going to have to live with it.

Think of the MC as a marriage doctor. If you had a gunshot wound, you wouldn't cover it up and go see the doctor for a cure and not let them know. You don't need to tell the MC the first time you visit in case they give you the creeps, but if you can confide in them, then do. If it is an issue in the marriage, it is an issue worth resolving. That is the whole purpose of MC to try to find the root cause of the problems so you can repair what is broken.

Good luck. I'll admit the topic is not any fun on my side of the conversation, but it simply cannot be ignored. I wish you the best.

[This message edited by joeboo at 10:30 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday)]

circe posted 9/4/2013 05:40 AM

At heart you have compassion for the issues he can't help, but it sounds like your incredibly justified anger and hurt over the things he could control has connected those two things in your mind. If that's the case, then addressing the sex issue in MC could be really helpful, as it's connected to so many other issues about respect, fidelity, compassion, selfishness and generosity.

But the size part - well, sounds like it's only one part of the dissatisfaction with your sex life. If he were a great husband, the small penis wouldn't be an issue. If he were an otherwise great husband, selfishness as a lover still would be an issue. So try to separate out what parts are at the heart of the problem and which ones just exacerbate the real problems.

My FWH has his own set of insecurities and I wish I could take back two things I said to him in anger and frustration after his A. They weren't the issue I had with him and in a loving marriage they wouldn't have even been something I consciously noticed. There was nothing that could be "fixed" about them. It was just insult to injury that these things existed during the affair. So maybe the size thing is similar?

The good thing about IC is that you can focus on you, and if you want to tell your IC about the size issue and your anger surrounding the amount of sexual sacrifices you've made and his subsequent affair behavior, you can do that and a good IC will listen and ask you about it and help you find some peace with it. Whereas a MC is about the relationship and will look at this information from a relationship perspective. You deserve to have a place to vent everything you think and feel, and I think having an IC who can focus on your needs and feelings would be really helpful.

[This message edited by circe at 5:45 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

painpaingoaway posted 9/4/2013 07:30 AM

Don't mean to T/J, but stillgoing, you are killing me. but DAMN, do you ever 'get it'!

"You're fat, I don't want to fuck you" to a woman is like beating her vagina with a furious raccoon covered in glue and iron filings, no matter how tactfully worded or even truthfully spoken.
the raccoon part might be just a tad excessive, but I have told H in the past, that a man telling a woman she is fat, or insults her beauty, is equally as painful to the woman as a woman telling a man his dick is too small.

doggiediva posted 9/4/2013 07:45 AM

First thing is to find a counselor who is good and not full of sh888t..
One of the MC's (the worst one I ever went to) told me that if I didn't give my WH enough sex he would explode "down there" and stroke out..
As others have mentioned IC may be more helpful to you..MC with a "good" counselor is helpful only if BOTH partners are committed and invested in helping the marriage/relationship to heal..

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