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Tried to leave, tried to forgive, tried to what?

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Confusedmnman posted 9/4/2013 07:54 AM

It's been almost a year, my wife had an EA with her supervisor for a year when I found out, then had a PA with a disgusting co-worker for several months before i found out about that one. I tried to learn from it! I tried to get the whole truth but it never seemed to feel right. I begged her to help me see the truth, to help me understand! I begged her to help us heal! She said she was sorry many times, she says its not my fault many times, she says it was not the sex that she was after! Beyond those words she does nothing to help me and she will never talk about her affairs unless i bring the up. She says she loves me!!!! After 4 months of waiting on her to even bring them up let alone do the things i requested ( timeline, changing jobs so she is not with POSOM every night at work, or informing POSOM spouse with my help...) i finally filed for divorce thinking that might show her I'm serious. My thought was the marriage as we know it is dead and i never want to remember the sadness i am feeling now. I file to divorce her, i told POSOM wife what he was doing, and three weeks later POSOM dies of a heart attach...I am NOT sad by this fact one single bit! I was thinking if wife makes things better we can date and possibly remarry in the future. Now that POSOM is dead i feel more like the second place prize. Well divorce is weeks away from final, she says she loves me, but still has yet to do anything i requested. I have went out with friends when she was at work or gone to the gym ( doing the 180 )...all that does is make her angry and she compares that to her cheating.....thinks i should stay home every night while im off and she is working! I can't see myself with anyone else! I can't let her go!
I can't do this any longer.... I can't live without knowing the whole truth about my wife...her affairs...and what are marriage was really about! I have had the barrel of our rifle in my mouth sever times in this last year and it seems like the only answer that i can find to get out of this painful mess. I have been to IC! i am so sick of being coddled and told i deserve so much better.....i am a good person for the most part, i feel i deserve the truth.....i deserve to trust my supposed best friend! I am just so tired of her affair consuming my life and not being strong enough to just accept it and let it go, makes me feel weak and even less of a man!

[This message edited by Confusedmnman at 8:14 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 9/4/2013 08:02 AM

Have you gone for any professional help, Confusedman? If not, get some help immediately. Having a gun in your mouth is not normal and is a sign that you need help ASAP. Please call the suicide hot line. 1-800-273-8255 They can get you directed to the correct place to get some help in your area.

Take care of you! Please!

Confusedmnman posted 9/4/2013 08:18 AM

Nothing in my life for the past year has felt "normal". I am just tired of the pain and all the self doubt.

heforgotme posted 9/4/2013 08:22 AM

First of all, do what SisterMilkshake said.

Then, I want you to go down and read in the Divorce/Separation and New Beginnings forums. It seems impossible right now that you could get through this. But there are lots of people who are doing just that. Let their stories inspire you.

You have said that you don't want to be told that you deserve better, so I won't tell you that. But I read your profile and will tell you that I don't think your WW will ever come around. So, the "now what" is divorce. Let it go through and make sure you have some support for when it is finalized.

I am so sorry you are going through this. But you can't make her come around, and if she won't there is no point in staying married to her.

Hang in there. Keep posting.

LosferWords posted 9/4/2013 08:31 AM

Confusedmnman - I am so sorry for all of the hurt that you are having right now. At the very least, keep that number that SisterMilkshake gave you written down and within easy reach. They can help talk you through.

Have you told your IC about your thoughts with the gun? I was feeling very helpless at one point, and ended up going on a low dosage of antidepressants, and that did wonders for me.

Keep talking to us here. We're here for you. There's another really supportive thread that you might be interested in called "Betrayed Men" down in the I Can Relate section of this site. The guys down there can help talk you through just about anything and then some.

Please don't make a permanent mistake in order to try to solve a temporary problem. You can come out of this, and even thrive. People here do it all the time.

Hang in there, and keep talking to us.

MutedMan posted 9/4/2013 08:46 AM

Keep coughing out the bile your wife has filled you with. Eventually you will see that like me, you are better off without her than you are with her.
I too did everything I could to fix her problems- she chose to ignore them and went outside the marriage.
She still will not work on herself as her IC tells her she's fine and just better at coping than me. When she has to start working full time and cannot screw around all day she might realize how badly she screwed up, might.
Keep your chin up- this is not your mess to clean up, you have nothing to prove and no reason not to focus on the future- your future.

atsenaotie posted 9/4/2013 10:00 AM

Hi Confusedmnman,

I am sorry to read your story, but glad that you found SI.

You are a year from her first EA, so I presume only a few months since the last PA. Your feeling angry and consumed by the A and wondering what occurred is not unusual for where you are at. Many of us start to hit the real rage and anger stage at about 6 months after the final dday, and many report the second year as being harder on the BS than the first. Recovering from the betrayal of a spouse is difficult, and it takes time to work through the various stages. Since your WW is unwilling to assist with honesty, remorse, and other support, it is even more difficult for you.

She says that she loves you, but has done nothing (damn little) to demonstrate that. We learn after dday that actions speak much louder than words, so despite what she says, your WW is telling you she loves herself more than you and will not admit to her faults.

i finally filed for divorce thinking that might show her I'm serious.

From reading your post I understand that you are serious, but filing for D to try and manipulate your WW into different action is a mistake. We cannot control other people. She has to want to fix her issues and want to repair her relationship with you and the family because it is important to her, not because she is afraid to be D.

While the WS can make healing easier on the BS, in the end it is the BSís job to heal himself and get to a point of understanding and acceptance about the A. I found books like Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines helpful in understanding why a person has an A, and what I needed to do to move on in my life.

I can't live without knowing the whole truth about my wife...her affairs...and what are marriage was really about!

You never did know this, and you never will. In fact, I suspect that your WW has re-written your M to hide the truth from her self, so that even if she wanted to she would not be able to give you a factual story of your M. You do know some things: Your WW was (is) selfish, so when the M became difficult or dull, when an OM provided her with attention and affirmation, she went for the feel good candy of the A rather than defend her integrity, marriage, and family. You know that she has bad boundaries with OM, you know ahs lacks empathy, and puts her feelings ahead of your and those of the OMís BS. You know she would rather end up D than admit her faults and work on her self and the M.

Very few of us ever get the full truth, not just in our M, but in many parts of our lives. All we can do is react and respond to the evidence presented to us, and take the best actions for us and our families. This is the R forum, but with a unrepentant WW who has refused to come clean, identify and own her issues, and projects the blame on to you, I really think that D is a reasonable option.

I can't see myself with anyone else! I can't let her go!

This is where to focus your efforts. First, it is ok to not be able to see yourself with anyone else. Yu do not need anyone else just now, you need to get to where you feel safe and ok just being yourself. Why is it you cannot let her go? She let you go and had emotional and sexual A with OM? Why do you still cling to a woman who betrayed you, and then does nothing to repair her damage and still wants to control your life? What are you afraid of? Stop thinking about who will replace your WW, and start working to feel OK being yourself, alone. Make plans for expanding your network of friends, are there old hobbies or activities you can return to? Your WW telling you to stay in on your nights off should not have any bearing on your actions, but in a few weeks you will be D and it will not matter at all.

Keep posting and reading, SI is a great resource. Also consider looking up the Betrayed Men thread in I Can Relate.

h0peless posted 9/4/2013 10:08 AM


I remember a lot of the same pain that is coming through in your post. I would very likely be in the same spot as you if my ex hadn't left to be with the OM. She would have done the same thing your wife did.

The first point I want to touch on is the fact that you are going to have to let go of the outcome here. All you can control is yourself. As much as you want to fix this, you can't because you didn't break it. If she isn't willing to fix it, you'll come to realize with some distance that she wasn't good enough for you.

The feeling that your life is effectively over is normal and natural. It does pass, but working through your own issues and distancing yourself from her is how that's going to happen. I get that you're hurting and that you just want it to stop but you're toying with a really permanent solution to a problem that ultimately doesn't have to ruin your life.

Hang in there, Confusedmnman, and please reach out to a mental health professional. You're in a crisis right now and you need help to cope. You have a lot to offer.

FeelingSoMuch posted 9/4/2013 12:34 PM

You tried leaving, forgiving and forgetting ó all failed.

This is normal and part of the process. The next part is figuring out what questions to ask before you can figure out a new game plan for your life.

I had help from IC, MC and my family doctor who prescribed Cypralex ó an anti depressant.

Venting here also helped. All of the above can help you, too.

You're not going to feel better for a long time. And yes, you've been done an injustice. You're exactly where most of us are that soon after d-day. You will be where the veterans are, too, one year after d-day, five years after d-day and so on. I'm not there yet, but people here say that life feels good again. The same will be true for you and for me.

For now, you need time and work. Time and work.

RyeBread posted 9/4/2013 13:08 PM


You got served a shit sandwich and the person who served it to you doesn't want to take it back and make it right.

You are right, you do deserve the truth. You also deserve to be with some one who honors and respects you, and you deserve to have a fulfilling and happy life.

Unfortunately, you are dealing with a person who only thinks of themselves. Sure she says I love you, but what does that really mean at this point. Actions should be speaking, not idle words with no meaning for you.

My STBXWW told me of her A. She gave me details of the things she wanted me to know. But when I pressed her she started lying. My point is, even if you get some of the truth you won't get all of the truth. Accepting that is tough, very tough. You are not weak or less of a man for not accepting it yet. You are human. Work through that in your own time on your terms.

Regardless of what your marriage was, it was that marriage your WW had the A in. Even if you R, the old marriage has to be dead. You are starting new and fresh and if that means you need a D to do that then thats what needs to happen. If you don't have a remorseful WW then you can't work with that. It sucks beyond what you deserve to be going through.

The best thing I ever did for myself was take a step back and focus on me. I started doing things for myself, the things I "gave up" to be married. Make yourself the priority in all you do. If your WW has a problem with it then her actions are telling you she is not remorseful and she does not respect your healing. Do you want someone like that in your life?

Razor posted 9/4/2013 13:14 PM

I normally dont post in this forum because I can at times come across as pretty negative. The title of your thread caught me eye and so I peeked in for a look see. I do have something to say regarding a personal revelation that may (or may not) help. I will mind me manners.

Like you I tried all of that. Even down to filing for D. All of it hurt. It hurt me more than her because I was still in love with WW. Even after all the verbal abuse. After her LTA. After her obvious not giving a shyt.

Like you I got nothing I asked for from her. No time line. No list of places they went and things they did. As far as me questions went I concluded that if WW could lie and get away with it she would. So for a time I would only ask if I already knew the answer. But whats the point of that?

It took me a long time because Im a bit of a slow learner. But in time I realized that the problem was not WW. It was me instead.

We cant change our WW. We cant change who they are. You cant change a cat to a dog or visa versa. Leopards cant change their spots. The problem I was having. All that anguish I was feeling and you know it well yourself. All of that came from me wanting WW to be something she was not. Wanting her to feel something she did not feel.

We have all heard the saying that when someone shows us who they are we should pay attention. This is important because our WWs have shown us who they are. They have not changed either. They had their fun and do not care enough about us to do the uncomfortable thing and help us heal. Instead they do nothing. Bury it. And pretend everything is fine.

That is who my WW is. The problem I was having was that I wanted her to be otherwise.

This next bit is a thing easily said but very difficult to do. I gave up caring. About WW. About her LTA. About being second choice. About all of it. I stayed M to her because as long as I dont ask more of her than she can give we get along fine. That and family (children) ties and finances. D would hurt me more than staying with her would.

I gave up giving a damn about all of it. She will do what she does. And I do as I please. I charted a new course for me life and she is not the central player. I am that central player in my life now. My wants and needs are more important than hers.

Now I must add that I am kind to her in every way possible. We get along fine. We are more *friends with benefits* than all else. We are friends nonetheless. And I will never go out of me way to hurt her in any way. But her happiness is not my problem. Just as my happiness is not her problem.

We all need to find fulfillment and happiness on our own. Those things are our responsibility not that of our spouse or partner.

We both know who our WW are. They have shown us that. All we can do is accept that fact and either decide to stay or go.

As I said a thing easily said but difficult to do.

joeboo posted 9/4/2013 13:18 PM

I won't try to tell you that I know exactly how you feel, because I don't. But it sounds similar to where I was in my relationship with my fww. Everything except the divorce, but we were virtually separated in-house with no intimacy whatsoever.

I remember my fww trying to find anything to compare to her A's and I would bite on it every time and we would argue.

I know at the time suicide seemed like a legitimate option but I am glad I am still here. I hope that you will realize that too.

Things started to change for me once I let go of the marriage. I finally realized that I couldn't survive until I was more important than the marriage. It doesn't mean the marriage isn't important, but you have to be the best you before you can be well suited for a good marriage. I also realized that my wife may never get to that point so I detached even more.

Tried to leave, tried to forgive, tried to what?
Try to become content with you. I found several different projects. I rebuilt a boat, remodeled a man-cave bathroom, etc... All those things were activities that didn't involve her and didn't have any input from her. Sounds a little selfish, and it was. Its supposed to be. It was very out of character for me, but I started putting myself first. It didn't mean I couldn't be a good husband, but it did mean that I would always try to treat myself right. I spent the majority of time working on me, not "us", and not the "marriage".

You may not always live with her, but you will always have to live with yourself. So be good to you until you start to like you again.

I wish you peace and strength and hope you find your way through your struggles very soon.

[This message edited by joeboo at 1:21 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

crazyblindsided posted 9/4/2013 14:42 PM

Things started to change for me once I let go of the marriage. I finally realized that I couldn't survive until I was more important than the marriage. It doesn't mean the marriage isn't important, but you have to be the best you before you can be well suited for a good marriage. I also realized that my wife may never get to that point so I detached even more.

This was the only thing that worked for me too.

Sal1995 posted 9/4/2013 14:48 PM

Confusedmnman, I'm so sorry you are going through this nightmare. I encourage you to seek professional help to get past your thoughts of suicide. Please visit us on the Betrayed Men forum when you can. If nothing else you'll be in the company of other men (only) who are struggling with the same kind of pain. Take care of yourself, brother.

7yrsflushed posted 9/4/2013 15:12 PM

Your M doesn't define you, your WW's A doesn't define you, whether you stay M or get a D doesnt' define you...YOU define YOU.

I didn't come out of the shitstorm until I realized what I typed above. I went around in circles for over a year before I finally said enough and gave up on it. I got tired of trying to save my WW and my M and decided to save myself. I sat down one day after being up for 2 days straight and said what do I want out of life? Funny thing is the only answer I could come up with was I DON'T KNOW but then it clicked. I could do whatever I wanted now it was completely up to me so I went about making that happen. It gets better Confused. No matter how you feel right now it gets better once you let go of things you can't control and focus on the things you can. You just focus on YOU and living your life because the only thing you ever had control over was yourself.

I made a list of things I needed to do and wanted to do, some big some small and proceeded to work on that list everyday. It included things like going on trips, painting the house, spending more time with the kids, fixing stuff on the house, goign to larger cities, museums, anything and everything I could think of. It sucked in the beginning because I had to force myself to do them but after a bit I enjoyed doing them and I started meeting other people and living again. Things are good now.

My STBXW is still the same person. She was never truly remorseful and never gave me the complete truth but I don't need her to be because she doesn't define who I am. Don't allow your W or her actions to define you. Those are her burdens to carry not yours. Let it go and live your life. I am not saying forget or rugsweep what was done to you but what I am saying is don't own HER choices.

Confusedmnman posted 9/4/2013 16:36 PM

Thank you all for your advice. It is so hard to see that you never never mattered to someone that mattered so much to you! I have been going own trips, working out, quit smoking after 30 years, and going out with some new friends, but it seems to make me sad because she is not a part of it. She hurt me to my core and for which i have no words to describe the pain her affair/betrayal has caused with exception of one, shattered!
You what hurts the most is the realization that i will never again be the man that makes her laugh or shows her something new and beautiful that she has never seen.
You may be confused why that hurts me or I guess scares me.....that's because i never stopped loving her or honoring our marriage. i now have to pick up the pieces of the man i have become and i am afraid some of those pieces are lost forever.

Simple posted 9/4/2013 17:04 PM

Or those pieces, you just don't realize can be put together a different way and it will show a brand new better picture.

You can't control her, you can only control yourself.

she says she loves me, but still has yet to do anything i requested.

Tells you everything you need to know. Now DO for yourself. Heal yourself, forgive yourself, love yourself again. You're the only one who can make yourself happy again, you're the only one who can live YOUR life. Don't let POSOM dictate your life for you from the grave. Take charge of your life and let go of the pain, focus on positive, and you will get your manhood and happiness back.

Hugs your way.

h0peless posted 9/4/2013 17:19 PM

You may be confused why that hurts me or I guess scares me.....that's because i never stopped loving her or honoring our marriage

I wish I couldn't relate to this. It's been mroe than a year since my ex left for the OM, five months since the divorce was final and I still feel badly about this sometimes. For the first time in several months, I woke up thinking about her yesterday morning. That was hard. I think about this less and less, though, as time goes on. It gets better. It isn't always a linear process but the line is trending upwards.

The great thing about this place is that we have all been where you are. Some of us are still there. We've been there and are working on climbing out. Some people here are already out of the pit and can throw you the lifeline that is experience. All you have to do is have faith, grab on and fight like hell to get to the top.

MoreWould posted 9/4/2013 19:13 PM


Man, this is horrible. I really feel for you. Not as bad as it gets, but close enough that we donít need to debate the rounding errors.

My sitch was different, but not all that different, and in the end, these Aís all rhyme.

In our sitch, my WW worked with POSOM, didnít confess, didnít want to end it after she got caught, and didnít for a while. Worked with him for another two years. Not very remorseful or transparent, she didnít even want to admit it was over after it was. I even had to prove that for myself. Shit sandwich, no bread.

Despite all that, I never stopped loving her, and we did successfully R and are now happily married over 30 years later. Iím not saying it is for you, maybe D is the best course in your sitch. Only you can decide, but it all starts with YOU.

Iím 100% with Razor, a post that speaks closer to what saved me than anything I could have written myself.

But in time I realized that the problem was not WW. It was me instead.
We canít change our WW. We canít change who they are. You canít change a cat to a dog or vice versa. Leopards canít change their spots. The problem I was having. All that anguish I was feeling and you know it well yourself. All of that came from me wanting WW to be something she was not. Wanting her to feel something she did not feel.

Once I realized that, I was halfway home. Now today, brother, you may be hurting too much to hear this. I get that, probably wouldnít have been able to when I was where you are now. So print Razorís post out and put it someplace where you can find it in 6 months, and read it every 6 months until it makes sense to you. It will most likely take years. Do not despair.

In the meantime, drink plenty of fluids, get some exercise, and sleep when you can. You are now in training for a marathon, and whether you finish with her or without her, YOU will finish. And, YOU will finish with someone worthy by your side. It is written.

jjct posted 9/4/2013 20:25 PM

I am another who never got the truth.
At some point, we realize "we know enough", and we begin to detach from the behavior of others who previously defined our lives.
My wish for you is that we would paint our own lives, dripping glue from shattered pieces as they are. Some pieces are worth being lost
-like the ones where we fix *other ones* that cannot be fixed
- some pieces are worth saving, like the true you, the faithful.

I promise you. The portrait of your fixed self,
the pieces you pick up and you assemble as new,
are far beyond your imaginings right now in your pain.

"You know enough" about what's outside of you.
Time to know you.
It's amazing.

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