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Does divorce have to be nasty?

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Athena1979 posted 9/6/2013 12:18 PM

I would like a reality check. Has anyone had an experience where the divorce wasn't nasty?

I've talked to 2 people about their divorces. One who was married to an abusive alcoholic and I was super afraid of divorce, from her experience and the nonsense he out her through.

The other person is using a mediator. $750 flat fee and he and his wife have negotiated the terms of their divorce on their own with the mediator.

My husband wants the furniture? Take it. My husband wants my house, fine, put it in your name and I will go buy my own house, again. You want my car? Fine take it.

My only contention would be visitations.

When do things starting going south in a divorce? Does it start out friendly? At what point, do things start to get nasty?

ninebark posted 9/6/2013 12:20 PM

While I still have lots of anger toward my ex, we don't have a nasty divorce.

We agreed on how we would separate everything and what his visitation would be and I took it to my lawyer. She said it was easier divorce she ever did.

Now we remain on 'friendly'terms (I still hate, but I am nice for our child). We are able to work out any problems with a phone call and can keep it cordial. He pays his bills on time and is always willing to pay for the extras like sports.

So while I hate the situation, we have managed to make it quite amicable for all.

Catwoman posted 9/6/2013 12:31 PM

In my opinion, it is very difficult to have a civil, give-and-take mediation, agreement and post-divorce life with someone who is personality disordered, has an overwhelming sense of entitlement or has major issues with truthfulness. If your STBX has any of these issues, look out.

Just my experience. I was put through hell by my NPD, lying, deceitful and thoroughly asshole ex. For the record, he is still doing those things--it has become one giant quest to make me miserable. So far,he has failed. Thank God.


Phoenix1 posted 9/6/2013 12:42 PM

We are having an "amicable" dissolution. $150, 30 days give or take, and poof, done. We agreed on the separation of items. I determined what I really wanted and what I was willing to let him "take," I put valuations on everything (which took the longest amount of time), split the debt evenly, and the bottom line numbers of the overall division are fair and equitable (a requirement for the court). Because of his NPD/PA tendencies, I played the game as I knew I needed to in order to get him to cooperate, otherwise it would have gone down the ugly path. Of course, the fact that I had reams of evidence about his adultery, including witnesses (we are either a fault or no fault state), and threatened to smear him and OW in court *might* have helped him see the light...

Newlease posted 9/6/2013 13:19 PM

Our children were grown - 21 and 19, so no custody or CS issues, we had a lot of debt and one asset - the house.

We divided the "stuff" - sold the house, paid off the debt and went on down the road. Took 3 months from filing to finalizing. Cost $450.

It wasn't easy - it was emotionally devastating, but it wasn't nasty. Neither one of us had to go to court - it was all done through the lawyers and the judge.


Mandilwen posted 9/6/2013 14:08 PM

From what you posted, things can start to get nasty when it comes to visitation, since that's your contention. Do you know what his angle is on visitation? Are you wanting more parenting time than the state guidelines suggest?

It really depends on the players. My divorce wasn't nasty, but we didn't have much and had already split most things. The only thing we had to get through was child support, which the state calculates anyways. But he wasn't working and wanted the amount lowered. Knowing he probably wouldn't pay anything anyways, I agreed to a lesser amount because I was done and wanted to move on. We did joint legal with me as primary physical. A clause was also thrown in about liberal visitation.

I had the lawyer, but we both went to his office to sign the paperwork. My lawyer told him he couldn't advise him, but could clarify things if needed. Neither of us went to court, and somehow slipped through the cracks on that parenting class your supposed to take. Given the circumstances, wasn't too bad at all.

osxgirl posted 9/6/2013 14:24 PM

My experience:

Caveat: no kids. I do think it's a lot easier to get through this when that's the case.

Although I wouldn't call ours a "friendly" divorce (not by a long shot), from the perspective of getting a settlement agreed upon and signed, ours went pretty quietly, I guess. I had a lawyer; he did not. We mostly did the settlement agreement ourselves, with the lawyer putting in the language needed to cover all the bases and make sure we wouldn't have issues later.

I will say, though, that a big part of the reason we got it signed without any real contention is because he was stupid. He ended up needing money to pay back use of a work credit card for personal use. Because he had racked up a lot of debt in his name behind my back (his name only; all our "shared" debt was actually in my name), his only way to get money to pay it back was a loan against his retirement account (similar to a 401K). Because we were still married, he needed my signature for that. And I refused to sign it until we had an agreement in place, because I didn't trust him to not drain his retirement and then come after mine. So even though he had started having second thoughts about the agreement - that he had previously agreed with completely - and had been refusing to sign it, he ended up signing it so I would sign off on the loan.

And it was a fair settlement. I kept the house and almost everything we had except his car, his computer, his music, things like that. But I also kept all of our shared debt, since I knew he wouldn't pay any of it anyway, and since my name was the only one on it, I had NO way of really forcing him to help with it, even if he had been given part of the debt in the D. But through the years, I had paid for almost everything anyway... so he probably got a better deal than he should have.

I said all of that to say this: Near as I could tell, our problems came in because of the skank he was seeing. He had been very agreeable to what we put in our settlement agreement, until suddenly he started saying that he thought he should be getting more. And that's about the same time that she started showing up when he came to get things at the house, and started inserting herself in everything we had to still deal with each other on.

Bottom line - I'm pretty sure that she realized he was coming out of the D with nothing but a whole lot of debt he had racked up running around with her. She saw that I was the one who had kept us afloat, and that he was not going to have much of anything except debt once we were done. And she got pi$$ed and started pushing him to get more in the settlement.

If he hadn't been stupid and needed the loan from his retirement fund, we probably would have ended up in a nasty fight.

So I would say it is possible to have a D that isn't nasty - but the AP can be a BIG factor in it getting nasty.

h0peless posted 9/6/2013 16:23 PM

Mine cost $1400 at a paralegal's office and a bunch of things I didn't want anyway because they reminded me of her. I suppose if she had wanted to try to take the dogs, things could have gotten nasty but she abandoned them too.

As far as divorces go, mine was pretty easy. No kids, though.

womaninflux posted 9/6/2013 16:30 PM

I do think mediation is a good way to go. Definitely less expensive. But when there is money involved, it's important to have someone who is prepared to litigate if necessary.

I think divorces can be civil, especially if people have arrived at the decision to divorce and they aren't angry about it any longer. I guess this is what people mean by waiting a year before you make any major decisions? Divorce is definitely NOT an impulse decision.

hopeandchange posted 9/6/2013 16:52 PM

Ours is still amicable. Stbxww wanted everything to stay the same, except without me. She would stay in the home with the kids I would pay child support and spousal support. She would continue to work part time. She would get 60 pct of the retirement accounts and we would split savings equually

I said no stbxww said the kids needed her to fix lunches and be home when they returned from school. College, HD senior and sophomore. Stbxww said she raised the family and I built a career (I was either at work or at home )

I said no

I would pay for ALL of the kids expenses school, activities, clothes, camps, cell phone, etc. we would set aside savings to pay for their college we would split the rest of our savings and retirement. I will refinance to pay her half of our home equity

and I agreed to the state recommended child support just to keep things amicable

I will have my home, 0 sAvings, and MY INTEGRITY!!!


PurpleRose posted 9/6/2013 17:19 PM

Like Cat said, it depends on the ex you are divorcing. I'm dealing with the most ridiculous idiot on the planet right now. He is So NPD that my 13 year old has even got it figured it out.

We have been "fighting" about the dumbest shit imaginable. Just today I finally said "ok whatever!" and agreed to shit I shouldn't have had to (according to both of our lawyers)just to make this problem go away!!

My lawyer, who has been doing divorces for a looooong time, says she has seen some major whack jobs in her career, and the Dooosh is high up on her list of the most immature and unreasonable creatures ever. He is dHis attorney is even embarrassed by the shit his client is fighting about!

I'm just over it. I truly could not give a rats ass if he drove into oblivion and was never heard from again- or if he lives to be 110. Do. Not. Care.

But I have to deal with him for the sake of the one child remaining who still has a relationship with the jerk. Albeit in a very minimal capacity thanks to the protective order against him! (And at this rate I'm not sure how long that relationship will continue!)

sodamnlost posted 9/6/2013 17:47 PM

My first divorce wasn't ugly at all. We are "friendly" still - 11 years later. Current STBXWH won't be an ass either I don't think. Helps when there isn't anything to fight over. Even if there was - not worth it to me. I want peace.

homewrecked2011 posted 9/6/2013 17:55 PM

Mine was going along ok until the OW got her D. Now she is thinking for him, doesn't let him out of her sight--even got a job where he works. He stopped all communication with me - I am guessing she ordered that--and now he pays for stuff for her kids and not ours. He was pretty civil at first, paying for extra curr stuff and talking calmly thru stuff until OW took the reins.

I used to be able to send him emails at work and he would answer nicely and work with me on the kids, but now I think she responds to the emails because the spelling/grammar have improved and the answer is always no!

Ashland13 posted 9/6/2013 17:58 PM

We're friendly as long as I agree to anything he wants or be quiet. It's when I have a need or can't agree, that things get messy. He wanted to run the show for the marriage, now he wants to run the show for the divorce...NPD circus.

For me, it gets ugly when he is still not honest and especially now, why bother lying anymore? but I think it's what he's used to. And it can get nasty, I've heard, when something isn't followed and the other person has a need for things to be followed. Nearly Exh, for instance, has a problem accepting boundaries-in that he won't-so if there is a rule he breaks and I have the nerve to say so, this creates friction. Usually he'll get ugly trying to defend himself and I've heard that can lead to being nasty-either side trying to defend a want or need in the outcome.

There is advice I was given that says that it can go quicker, supposedly, if a person is willing to give up things as you're listing and then go and replace later-it makes meetings shorter, phone calls and messages shorter and bills shorter...but isn't kind on hearts.

ETA @homewrecked, I've had suspicion about OW getting involved, for several reasons...sometimes the grammar on messages is rather different than usual and the attitude extremely different. It never occurred to me that OW could be sending things, but she got into his electronics already and nothing would surprise me.

Some of the messages are cryptic and robotic sounding, even for him.

ETA @Purple Rose, some of my little bits of fun have been when Nearly Exh's lawyer shushes or elbows him, often for whining and for some of the things he's tried to get.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 6:02 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

StillLivin posted 9/6/2013 18:36 PM

I am like Ashland13. Everything goes so nice when he gets his way. He got his selfish way throughout our entire marriage. I think he flipped his lid when he found out it was only because I was a good wife. I'm an even better STBXW. I have backbone, and I don't compromise. He still hasn't figure out what hit him.
Duh, I'm not his wife anymore, I owe him nothing, not even sympathy.
So, he aruges with the dial tone. NC and 180...though he tricked me and hooked me the other night. Will NOT happen again.
Good luck. Hope yours is better.

GEN Schwarzkopf
Hope for the best prepare for the worst. Desert Storm
Though, I'm sure he borrowed it from somebody else!

ruinedandbroken posted 9/6/2013 18:45 PM

Well, considering my ex walked out on me and has never attempted a conversation since, ours wasn't amicable from the start. However, I do know people who have had very amicable divorces but there was no infidelity though so idk?

Take2 posted 9/6/2013 19:03 PM

It truly depends on the spouse you are divorcing and his grip on reality. Mine? He was on a seesaw of guilt and anger.

When we first split I said: give me the house and 500 a month for 5 years - he said no.

Then he offered me the house and all of his retirement - I said okay - he changed his mind and said no.

Then he filed demanding we sell the house, split it 50/50 and I get nothing else.

Then he offered me the house, and his full retirement, I said okay. His lawyer said no.

Then... you get the idea - CRAZY!

In the end he offered a settlement wherein I got the house, his small ira, my small ira and 1/2 his retirement. I said yes. He said okay and the judge signed it. (It was settle that day or go to court.)

Then he yelled that I took everything, that I had planned the whole thing...

I spent 12,000 in lawyer fees. He likely spent more.

In your case I would not give away anything financially, based on the premise that you will get what you want custody wise... that is a precarious assumption.

All that being said my brother and his X divorced amicably... it all depends on who you are dealing with!

jilted12 posted 9/6/2013 19:17 PM

In my case, the saying that divorce brings out the worst in people was true (myself included). We agreed on all possessions, assets, debts but it got ugly when it came to visitation. We went through mediation, avoided going before the judge & it still dragged on for months & cost me over $10k.
I think if we didn't have kids, it would have been much easier & we would have been more civil.

As it stands now, we pretty much never speak & have limited communication via text or email b/c things always seem to escalate when we do. For a couple that barely fought during the 13 years we were together, its sad to see how much was destroyed by the A & D.

mixedintherut posted 9/6/2013 20:33 PM

It all depends on the two people involved.

Some people are greedy by nature.

The first time we filed for divorce, WH agreed to my terms because of his guilt and knowing he was wrong.

We haven't filed for D yet, but I have a feeling this time, things will not be so nice.

Athena1979 posted 9/7/2013 07:43 AM

Thank you to all of your replies.

I will hire an attorney. I found one with some good reviews. And she was already very prompt with getting back to me with my questions.

I will hope for the best. My WS is very selfish in his needs. When he talks about seeing kids it's because his needs to be "healthy", and not about the kids needs to be healthy.

I am going o be thankful that I have a man who wants to be in their life regardless of his perspective.

Thank you for seeing the kids as much as possible, as long as, you are giving me my space and time alone with the kids, I don't care what you do. Have all of the prostitutes you want and make all the pornos you want, just don't do it around the kids.

That's my contention. Good luck to all of you in the process of a nasty divorce with NPD, selfish jerks or witches. And thank you for the inspiration from the very few who went through it amicably.

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