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hi guys...i am so happy that SI is here for us all to get support!

everyone...i am having these uncomfortable, insecure feelings...and i am not sure what to make of them. so i am coming to you to set me straight, not allow me to rugsweep...and keep my eyes wide open...good or bad.

okay, so my h as many of you know was a cheating, lying, substance abuser. please see profile. we are 10 months in our attempt at r, and he is doing it all....everything in the healing library...attends his aa meetings weekly, mc...and just overall, he seems like he is really changing his life. i see the evidence. good for him. but i still struggle, am on anti depressants and see my ic once a week. this whole process of forgiveness will take time, as the wise SIers tell me.

my concern today is that he has started seeing an ic. now, i know that everyone on here always says that the cheaters need to get some ic to figure out why. even though none of the "why" make a difference to me, i still understand that it is important for him.

but it bothered me when he said he was going. it bothered me because i wondered what they would discuss. i know it is none of my business what they talk about, but it bothers me.

so, i talked to him about it....basically asking him why he felt he needed to go. he told me that he is going because he wants to remain clean and sober...and get support even outside of the aa meetings. he said that he needs to be able to have another man in his life to talk to that is positive, someone who will support all of the changes he has made. he fired all of his cheating, druggy friends.

he said that he wanted to be able to talk to him about how to continue to be supportive in my healing...how to deal with his own frustrations...and he said that he needed to get some positive reinforcement that he was making all the right decisions in his life.

he said that he needed to talk with someone about how getting high and chasing women...looking for some great high or ecstacy is not the way to go. that he has everything that he needs at home. and that it just isnt worth it destroying his life and everyone else's for some fantasy happiness.

sooooooo, after all that, it bothered me. i felt like..."why does he need to have a professional agree, confirm or tell him this?" shouldnt he already know this?

i feel like he needs "help" with being faithful to me. like living a clean and faithful life is "hard" or a challenge.

maybe it is since he has never had any positive male role models showing him how to be a good, faithful husband. they were all cheaters, who either had families on the side, or ran off with their mistresses, or had a woman on the side.

it just bothered me.

am i being paranoid? maybe even selfish?

REALLY hoping to get some honest feedback on this one.

one other thing i wanted to add was that during my false r last year...he was seeing an ic...a different one. and that ic knew all about his continued cheating. and i had met him a few times...and he knew that my h was still cheating on me. i dont think he knew about the addiction issues...but he knew we were in false r.

he is seeing a new ic now. but it bothers me...that maybe this new ic knows something bad too....

SRI....

Yes in IC he will discuss a lot of what he has written down but believe me IC is where they first learn why they do all that stuff in the first place. Once he is forced to see the whys. his past childhood issues, FOO, whatever you want to call them he might be able to not even ask all the other questions he told you.

Is there any way your IC and his IC could be the same? Thats what we did and it has been great for me to bring up issues within IC that I think would be good issues to bring up with H. We have an open agreement with our coucelor that, if he feels info is relavent from one session with one of us and the other should hear it he brings it up with them in their own IC session. This has so worked for us and has allowed the MC/IC to do a better job at both.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 7:01 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

shouldnt he already know this?

Dude. Come on. Of course everyone knows it. Didn't he know it when he was cheating on you?

Consider it as adding new tools to his tool box. He needs help. I think it is great he admits it and is actively seeking additional support.

You cannot control the outcome. Let go.

Sri, I don't have any advice but wanted to tell you that I completely understand. My WH was supposed to go to his first IC yesterday, but the counselor ended up forgetting the appointment. I was worried all morning, and wished that we had talked beforehand about why he was going/what he hoped to get out of it. I know he is going because I asked him to, but I am hoping that he will be able to talk about what he got from the relationship with OW, to figure out why he continued to see her after Dday, and to make sure he is really done with her. What worries me is that he is just going through the motions rather than truly feeling like it is something he needs to do for R - going for me, but not to change/realize anything about himself. I also know that he has lied to the counselor before (she is our MC), and worry that he will continue to tell her what she wants to hear.

okay...i think i see what you guys are saying. i want to keep my own ic...even though i can see how sharing the same might be a good idea. i just feel safe with mine...i can really let it all out with her.

i am glad that you can understand where i am coming from. yes, of course he should already know that he shouldnt have been lying, cheating and getting high. you are right.

but i guess just him TELLING me that he needed help with this really makes me insecure. i keep wondering if him being a faithful husband is hard for him. it isnt hard for me to keep my legs closed. even when he was being a monster. i just see it as a complete lack of a moral compass when you cheat.

if anyone needs help, my h does. he has all kinds of issues, right? but just hearing him explain to me how important seeing this man is to him....how he needs to have someone to talk to about his feelings on the topic of infedelity and substance abuse is hard.

i imagine him asking his ic questions like:

1. it is so hard not to be tempted...how do i handle that?

2. i have these urges and sometimes i do feel like i want to cheat...but i know that it would destroy everyones life.

3. i love my wife, but i do have temptations.

4. i do want to get high, but i know it will ruin my life.

5. how do i deal with not thinking that sex with another woman or getting high will make me feel fulfilled.

you see what i mean? this is what my mind is thinking...

but i guess the truth is that cheaters DO think about these kinds of thing, right? i mean, obviously like rebreather said....otherwise they wouldnt cheat.

just hard today, i guess.

Sri - It seems that you are hesitant bout him being in IC because he had a terrible IC before. He was allowing your WH to go in and manipulate, lie and cheat. If your WH is ready to really face himself in therapy, it will be a wonderful thing. If he isn't, then you have reason to be concerned.

thanks missy....i think that the last ic was trying to help him. but it was my h that was continuing to cheat...and lie. i remember when i kicked my h out after discovering the false r...i called that ic. and he told me that if i were his daughter, i would tell her to run like hell. he said that a person has to really want to be faithful in his heart. and that my husband actions show that being a committed husband is not what he wants. and that him bailing after getting caught is evidence of that. he also told me to stay in therapy and know my value and worth.

so, the old therapist knew all about the false r...but i think he was trying to get him to see that he was being a jerk.

fast forward to today...my h hit bottom and wants to change his life.

i guess in order to stay on the right path, he needs help.

it just bothers me that he "needs" help.

SRI, in your last post you listed several questions you are nervous about him asking his IC. My thoughts are, if he has any or all of those questions, wouldn't you WANT him to address them with someone? Your fear seems to be that even has those questions, but you can't control if he does or does not. NOT going to an IC doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

Whatever his desire for IC, I believe you should support it wholeheartedly. I only WISH my WS wanted to go to IC. He went to MC with me a handful of times, but neither of us felt it was helping us much at the time. Yet I have since begun IC and have all along been the one doing pretty much all the work to fix things. I had to actually pack a bag and leave just to get him to read a dang book. Not that he's not "trying". But his way of trying is moving on, loving me the best he can, and trying to forget the past. Just last week I tried to encourage him to talk to "someone", an IC, a friend . . . someone he can talk to on an ongoing basis about stuff he's going through, frustrations from his past, his present, whatever.

I think the fact that your husband is working so hard on many levels to fix things, to fix himself, to keep his focus on a happy and healthy relationship with you is amazing. And it sounds like he has a list of horrible roll models, so it's seems clear why he may feel he needs more support, advice, guidance, etc.

When I first read that his last IC knew he was having an affair I was initially appalled . . . until I remembered that counselors are bound to client confidentiality. I don't know the specifics of that whole situation, but I would imagine his IC was trying to get him to leave that extramarital relationship. And yet if he didn't, maybe that's part of why you're so worried, which would be understandable.

I asked my counselor if she does couple's counseling and she said at her office they have a different kind of system. The wife goes to an IC there, and the husband goes to an IC within the same office, and when they do MC the four of them come together. That way, each spouse has a sort of "advocate" who understands their point of view and can help guide the conversation. In these cases, the two counselors also share important information with each other that they feel each other should know.

And when I filled out my forms to see my IC, I listed the name of the MC my husband and I had seen. She had mentioned that if we were still seeing him, she would possibly confer with that MC on occasion as seemed necessary, but I believe it wouldn't be without my knowledge. Or at least I'd sign a paper in the beginning allowing her to speak with him at her discretion.

Maybe this can be the case with your IC and your husband's IC, even if they are at different offices. Ask your IC about this and then if he/she agrees, see if your husband would be willing for his IC to speak to yours, etc. They don't have to share everything and may not feel the need to share any information with each other at all. But maybe it will put you at ease if you know there aren't any secrets you "should" know about.

Now, having said that, since part of the whole point of IC is privacy and confidentiality, there may be some things your husband wants to share that he doesn't want you do know, and yet they don't have anything to do with an affair or anything of the sort. They just may be things he's having a hard time talking to you about and needs to discuss them with someone else who may bring him around to a place where he can talk to you openly about them.

At any rate, I'd encourage you to "let go" and let him get the IC that he feels he needs.

thank you for your post patchy. i feel all of the things you said.

my h also admitted to me that he really wants to have these conversations with another man. an older, married man. someone who has btdt..and can relate to him. he said that when he has these issues sometiems he doesnt feel comfortable talking to me because of everything that has happend. he feels that him talking about his issues, especially about the temptation to cheat will make us both feel uncomfortable.

i guess he is right, because him just telling me what he wanted to talk to the ic about..has me on SI...upset. i can only imagine how i would feel if he were to explain in detail the temptations he has. it would hurt me deeply. i cant be there to discuss that part with him. or any of the other topics that he needs to talk to another man about.

i dont think i am far enough in my own personal recovery for that one. i mean, i am not sure i can sit and listen to him talk how he felt during the cheating...and if he missed certain aspects of it...or even listen to him tell me how he needs to have someone help him on being a good man.

we have joined a new church. we stopped going to the old one since we were in false r that whole time...and it is just too painful that he was even deceiving me at church.

but anyway, at this new church...it is great, and he loves it. and he seems to really connect with this pastor when he is talking about living an honest life and not letting temptation and the human flesh run our lives. the pastor says that living a good honest life is a 29 hours, 8 day a week job.

i can see my h get all into it when the pastor is talking about this...especially when he talks about infedelity.

he has these "support" people that he is turning to...and i know i am bothered that he "struggles" with being a good, faithful husband it sounds like.

that he needs help.

and there are no good role models. none. no one is faithful in his family.

he told me that he would be the first generation to turn his life around and be a honest, faithful husband. and all his old friends were cheaters too. i can only think of maybe one or 2 that are decent...and they are in his aa meeting, or at the church.

just wish it wasnt a "battle."

i can easily keep my legs closed with no problem. i am not struggling to be honest and faithful, and i get approached by men all the time. i simply smile and say i am married. i am not mean about it...but i know that i wouldnt risk my whole m and breaking my h heart to sleep with some guy that made me feel good for a while.

but it bothered me when he said he was going. it bothered me because i wondered what they would discuss. i know it is none of my business what they talk about, but it bothers me.

I feel ya. My WH is going to his 1st IC session nxt wk.
I am not sure how I feel about this.
I feel terrified that he will be vindicated in his way of thinking re: outward appearances and material objects. Or that he really only married me b/c he felt pressured by family and b/c everyone else was getting married.
UGHH

sri,

One of my reqs for R was that my W sign a release that allowed her IC (who also became our MC) to

1) bring anything from an IC session to an MC session
2) to talk to me about W's therapy goals and progress (note: she (our MC) said she probably wouldn't answer mu Qs directly, but she would make sure my Qs got answered in joint sessions)
3) call me if my W rescinded the release
4) call me if my W revealed another A (MC suggested this)

IC is pretty much confidential by law and by most certifying organizations' ethical rules; the release gets around those things.

If my W had an IC who wasn't our MC, I would insist on regular joint sessions with her IC to make sure we all stayed on the same page.

To work, your H needs his privacy by and large, and there are things he'll work on that you don't want to know about, but the release I have would allow me to check with the IC to confirm that my W is still committed to R.

I think the thoughts and feelings you're having make perfect sense. The sort of release I describe could give you a sense of safety.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:12 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

Sounds like your WH and I are basically clones, so I hope you don't mind my input. For me IC has been huge. It is just another place to practice non wayward thinking and to expose some of the gunk that has been stuffed inside for so long. Much like AA meetings, or working with a sponsor, IC is a tool for making real change. There is nothing that I tell my IC that I wouldn't tell or haven't told BS, and I hope it's the same for your WH.
I would ask your WH about that, since he has confided in an IC in the past while lying to you. IC shouldn't be a place to drop secrets just to see how they might play out. That's wayward thinking. If he is working a good program this time around, he is most likely looking for healing, which is a good thing. If this is true:

He said that he wanted to be able to talk to him about how to continue to be supportive in my healing...how to deal with his own frustrations...

then it sounds like he's got the right idea.

i see...thank you for the advice. i am just not sure that i want to share my ic with our mc, or his ic. i feel very safe with her...and have built this trust with her...and i just need to have her for just me. you know what i mean? but i will think about what you guys are saying.

honestly, i dont know if my h is comfortable telling me everything he discusses with his ic. he pretty much told me that some things he doesnt feel comfortable discussing with me...at this stage in our recovery. like i mentioned before...he may be right. i am not sure i am ready to hear about how he struggles to be a faithful person...or that it is even difficult in some way to curb those temptations....or even that he has them...you know? maybe i should be...but that just hurts.

when he got home from the session with the ic...he seemed to be really at peace and was happy he went. almost like he felt invigorated in a way...to keep pushing forward.

2 things stick out....

he said he is seeing this guy to stay sober, and to really get help understanding that cheating is not right...and that the idea of another woman giving him this fantasy esctacy is not real. again, he said that all of his problems would still be there after the cheating....or getting high....and that they would even be worse.

i know i said this before...but this is what he said when he got back.

i think you guys are right...maybe i should just let go.

Okay, you asked for honesty

I think that it's important to realise you will never know what happens in the IC meetings. You also do not know if he is telling the truth to you.

I faced the same struggles. But honestly I found just shoving it out of mind to deal with it. Obviously it is so much tougher after what you have been through, being in a False R. Yes it's bullshit that they needcounselling. But it's the shit sandwich we have both signed up for.

Personally I was scared that wh IC would tell him to leave me. I think honestly he has done wonders for WH and if he did (which he wouldn't he is a great counselor) I would think it would be for a good reason.

It sucks that we have to give them faith when they have proven to abuse it countless times before. Good luck, and I would demand to see the IC on the first session. Perhaps to put your mind at ease or to re-evaluate if this is the right one for you.

ETA: Some may disagree with me, as it might be seen as a controversial issue.

[This message edited by lauren123 at 3:08 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

thank you lauren....i appreciate the honest, candid responses.

the SIers give it to me straight and that is what i need. because sometimes i make decisons based on emotion...and at times insecurity...i have in the past...hence the false r.

so thanks again.