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Newest Member: dylan123 (46056)

User Topic: Why be married?
niaveone
♀ 40317
Member # 40317
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so confused. In our MC session, our counselor stressed that the only person you can truly trust is yourself. WS totally agrees with her. I say to him "what about wedding vows? Don't they mean anything?" His answer is that they mean something at the time, but times change and you never know what the other person is thinking or is going to feel down the road.

I get the logic of it, but it's heartbreaking none the less. WHY GET MARRIED THEN? Why commit to someone and let them think you are in this thing called life together, if there is always that "what if?" in the back of your mind that the other person can just bail at a moment's notice.

It makes me want to just throw my wedding rings in the dresser drawer and say the hell with everything. Why go through counseling if you may feel one thing that day and "eh, not feeling it" today?


Me: BS
Him: WS
Married: 17 years
2 children
2 DDays
Reconciling

Posts: 313 | Registered: Aug 2013
tryingmybest2011
♀ 32584
Member # 32584
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His answer is that they mean something at the time, but times change and you never know what the other person is thinking or is going to feel down the road.

Cop out.

I think most people realize that some days are going to be great, some OK, and some, not so much. The vow he took when he got married covered off those days of "eh, not feeling it". I imagine you've had those days as well, but remained committed to your marriage.

Marriage doesn't make you happy, it makes you married.

What did your MC think about his response to you?


BS: me - 37
WH: him - 37
DD: 8
DD: 11 mos

Married over 9 years, together for 18.

DD#1: 12/12/10 - LTA of 3 years, 2 mos.
DD#2: 02/02/11 - 2 EA/PA with coworkers, a month after the LTA was ended (by OW).

In limbo.


Posts: 323 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Ontario Canada
RockyMtn
♀ 37043
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually agree with the MC. I do really believe the only person you can trust is yourself. I actually believed this before the A. And I've had a very loving, trustworthy upbringing. Trust is about a lot more than bailing or not bailing. You can reserve a small amount of distrust for someone (anyone) without expecting them to bail or living with that thought. I guess trust isn't so black and white.

That aside, since it isn't the point of your post, your WH's response to the vow question is a cop out. I agree. People changes, things change. But that is NOT a bad thing. Change is good. But even when it isn't welcome, it doesn't give someone the right to break vows.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
niaveone
♀ 40317
Member # 40317
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was said to me in the car, because I asked him about marriage vows in the car after counseling. It's throwing me for a loop, and making me really sad that in reality it's true. You CAN'T trust anyone but yourself. All these spouses that "never thought they'd do such a thing" and then go and do it. How do you explain that other than you just never know?


Me: BS
Him: WS
Married: 17 years
2 children
2 DDays
Reconciling

Posts: 313 | Registered: Aug 2013
silverhopes
♀ 32753
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why commit to someone and let them think you are in this thing called life together, if there is always that "what if?" in the back of your mind that the other person can just bail at a moment's notice.

Yep. That's the difference between feelings and commitment. Feelings change, of course they do. On a daily basis. Commitment - marriage - means that you have made a lifestyle choice that goes beyond feelings. But too many people base commitment on feelings. "Am I in love with you right now? If I'm not, then there's no commitment." That idea of commitment must be very shallow indeed. But it's what we're taught by the damn Disney flicks. "Happily ever after" and all that stuff...

Marriage doesn't make you happy, it makes you married.

Wise words.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3938 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

silverhopes has wise words regarding commitment and feelings. One deals with facts, the other emotions.

We all change....look how adultery has changed us all.

Change is a choice....we can choose to engage our spouses as we change or we can not. IMO our vows, in part, speak to a persons commitment to engage another person on all aspects of their lives, including when they change or feel a change is necessary.

Our spouses changed...they chose adultery....the did not engage us on this change. There was no COMMITMENT to engage us on this.

Is your husband saying he will engage you only when he FEELS like it? If he doesn't feel like it, will he engage another woman in ways he should just engage you?

This whole knowing what the other person is thinking or feeling is bogus.

If you are only loving a person until they do something that makes you feel like you don't want to love them...are you really going to be safe in your relationship? Without safety can true intimacy ever be had between two people?

My wife and I are learing to R. We had intimacy before her A, but the intimacy we are seeking NOW is nothing either of us has had before. Feeling safe with each other is a big key to this...and that is more then trust, though trust is a part of it.

God be with you.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I contend you cant even trust YOURSELF. I trust I wont be late on a credit card payment, but I have. I trust I wont lose my car keys, but I have. I trust I will modify my diet to reduce my cholesterol, but I have not done enough.

I know I can trust God, but even in that relationship I sometimes don't trust God enough to let go of an issue...I continue to work it, many times in vain.

A certain level of trust is needed for intimacy, but this idea of PERFECT, UNFAILING trust in anything human will do nothing but leave you disappointed.

It is safe to say that you CAN trust their will be shortfalls in your marital relationship. What we as BS are seeking is a trust that when our fWS experience the same desire to cope with life that led them to adultery that they are committed enough to recognizing the destructive nature of their old coping mechanisms and to engage us BEFORE they step out on the marriage they committed to (committed to TWICE now)....even if it is to tell us they want a D because they feel they love someone else or they feel they don't love us anymore.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 10:15 PM, September 7th (Saturday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ 38044
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't believe in the saying....Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Our fWS now know better, some fWS take this new knowledge and DO better....some do not.

Using cop outs is a clear sign that a WS has no new desire to do better AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. I guarantee you that 3 months out from my DD my wife had no intention of really working on herself....was so selfish and consumed with her A that the desire to do ANYTHING to salvage our marriage was simply not there.

Perhaps a move away from MC and into IC for you both is prudent? If I had this to do over again I would have waited 3-6 months after DD before even talking about MC sessions.

Peace be with you.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred.

Posts: 4134 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
crazyblindsided
♀ 35215
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, September 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually being married has lost it's luster for me. I am living with a more realistic view that ANYONE is capable of betraying you and I chose to trust myself. My WH has let me down many times over the years and I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket anymore. Too risky.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
myperfectlife
♀ 39801
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, September 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That whole "people change" is crap.
Of course people change. I am sure the BS has changed as well, but many of them do not betray the marriage.
It's not about love, it's about commitment.
My WS says that OW was the first person in 18 years who he felt "that way " with, after meeting me.
GAG. GAG. GAG.
He allowed it to happen and then pursued the feelings that cropped up.
Like a BS has never had a crush or wondered "what would it be like with them?".
Give me a break.
He said he "didn't know how to handle it".
I told him, you handle it LIKE YOU'RE MARRIED.
WTF?
How is that complicated?

"People change" is a bs copout. I would look for someone else. Maybe this is why marriage counseling is ridiculed so much.
It boggles the mind.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
niaveone
♀ 40317
Member # 40317
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But is there really a commitment? Seriously. People can change and people can change their minds overnight, so where is the commitment? You can *say* you aren't going to cheat or leave, you can *say* you don't believe in it, but when it comes down to it... anyone at anytime can do it.


Me: BS
Him: WS
Married: 17 years
2 children
2 DDays
Reconciling

Posts: 313 | Registered: Aug 2013
hopefullromantic
♀ 16652
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think blakesteel makes a good point, that 'you can't even trust yourself'. We are human, we are known to let ourselves down.

If you are the type of person who is constantly letting yourself down then you owe it to yourself to address the issue(depression, addiction, etc) in order to live an authentic, fulfilled life. If you are constantly letting your spouse down you owe them no less.

The vow 'to honor' implies this. To honor is to not only trust your spouse but to be trustworthy. Nobody is perfect, but the intent should be there. If either partner consistently fails in this then the vow is broken.

Infidelity breaks trust. Big time. It then has to be earned back. It will take time, but if the offender makes little attempt to restore that trust then the marriage relationship is doomed. It's as simple as that. No one is expected to remain in a marriage where trust can never be achieved again and those that do are not being fair or trustworthy to themselves. That is why it is so hard for the BS to heal, because they find themselves having trouble trusting their own judgment, as well as their spouse. This also takes time. In the meantime it is commitment and a leap of faith that allows us to attempt R. No guarantees. Both parties have to then do their parts and part of that is to be open to trust again. The leap of faith, remember? To remain forever emotionally guarded is not R. Failure may not guarantee divorce, but the marriage will only be ghost of what it was, a marriage in name but not emotional commitment. None of us want that. Unfortunately, many of us settle for it.

vows...they mean something at the time, but times change and you never know what the other person is thinking or is going to feel down the road.

Times didn't change, he did. And this statement, to me, implies that he is not willing to make that leap of faith, yet. He is not committed. He is in a "wait and see" state. In the case of infidelity, I don't believe anything can change until the wayward makes the leap first.


It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1806 | Registered: Oct 2007
Topic Posts: 12

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