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sinnomore posted 9/8/2013 21:21 PM

So...its been a few days of little to no conversation...his doing..he often shuts me out...well tonight I decided to take a risk and walked over to him told him i needed him and kissed him...really wholeheartedly....and as I kissed him I realized that though he kissed me back...he wasn't there. I had my arms around him and he didn't even touch me. I pulled away and apologized to him. I feel so STUPID...

[This message edited by sinnomore at 9:23 PM, September 8th (Sunday)]

authenticnow posted 9/8/2013 21:25 PM

Talk to him. He's shutting you out because he is in pain. Keep talking to him, keep showing your remorse, ask him what he needs.

TxsT posted 9/9/2013 00:18 AM

I agree with are so good at burying their thoughts, feelings, pain. I think it was nice that you took a step forward. My WS was so worried about doing anything at all at first because he always felt whatever he would do was viewed as wrong. I applaud you for opening up. Just be careful you don't make him feel you are trying to downplay the situation. Honest feelings, when spoken, are soothing. He may not know how to process them. If you try and verbalized his feelings you are showing him you appreciate what he is going through.


authenticnow posted 9/9/2013 05:54 AM

I agree with are so good at burying their thoughts, feelings, pain.

Just to clarify, that's not what I meant. I don't think shutting down because of emotional pain is a male/female thing. I think sinnomore's BH is doing that in this case.

wifehad5 posted 9/9/2013 06:02 AM

Based on your join date I'm assuming your D-day is fairly recent. He's dealing with a lot right now, and it takes time to work through those feelings. You may not be safe for him right now. Its going to take time.

SurprisinglyOkay posted 9/9/2013 06:19 AM

^^ She joined a year ago.

When is your dday?

What have you been doing to heal?

sinnomore posted 9/9/2013 12:37 PM

dday was june 2010...
at this rate i don't think he will ever be safe with me...

sinnomore posted 9/9/2013 12:44 PM

IC biweekly for the past 2.5 years..just started 1x month since june this year.MC for about 6 months biweekly. Not just friends. how to help your spouse heal after the affair apology to both set of parents
changed buildings...accountable...

TxsT posted 9/9/2013 13:50 PM

Authentic....I think we were typing at the same time.....did not mean to think I was trying to interpret your comment. So many men do just shut things out or internalize. Probably the hardest trait for them to overcome.


wifehad5 posted 9/9/2013 16:10 PM

So...its been a few days of little to no conversation...his doing..he often shuts me out...

So lets break this down a little farther. It's really not as simple as men don't know what to do with their feelings.

The "experts" say that it takes between two and five years to fully recover from this. Some people don't like to put a date range on it, but I find it to be a good ballpark.

What has he said to you? When he's done this in the past, does he talk to you when he comes out of it? How long since you've been in MC? What did they say?

uncertainone posted 9/9/2013 16:22 PM

he wasn't there

He may not be. He may have detached and mentally moved on. That's not always pain fueled. At times it's just being done. Just as there are emotional affairs there is emotional divorce too.

He may be maintaining your life together because it works for him...kind of using your unilateral choices to set the tempo.

Part of healing from our choices is not just stopping the bad ones but making healthy ones. That includes communicating. I would lay out what you're seeing and flat out ask him. Is this marriage something you're interested in being a part of or are you done?

If he says he is interested in being with you as a husband/partner than it's perfectly acceptable to state how you see that looking and what you need in order to have something to work with.

If he tells you he's done then you have knowledge and can make your choices accordingly.

Remember...time simply passes. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You have to be the change. He'll either work with you or not but you'll have an answer regardless.

nomoreplease posted 9/9/2013 16:34 PM

As a BH I can easily see how:

walked over to him told him i needed him and kissed him...
can come off as selfish, especially if he has been struggling with something for the past few days (and is being distant in order to protect you from it). I can easily see how he may not be into a kiss that is for the sole purpose of making you feel better, especially when he is struggling with a trigger or negative thoughts.

IMO, a much better approach would be to state that he seems distant and ask if you can do anything for him or if there is anything you can help him with (be there for him).

[This message edited by nomoreplease at 4:34 PM, September 9th (Monday)]

Unagie posted 9/9/2013 18:22 PM

^^^When does she get to need him again? When does every statement of her trying to relay her feelings get to be partially about what she needs from him as well. If in that moment she needed him then that's how she felt, and if they have been working on this for 3 years I would think communication would be better. If his distance has made her feel hurt then why can't she express this by telling him she needs him? If she felt like she needed to be physically close to him by kissing him, then why is this somehting she has to curtail? She doesn't know for sure why he is being distant and she won't know unless she asks because apparently he's not sharing.

When rebuilding open communication needs to go both ways, meaning if he feels a need to back away for a little while he needs to tell her and if she feels the need to be able to talk about it she should be able to. Both parties need to be in it to rebuild and if one is not present or feels like they don't have to give as much it can be hell. Perhaps the way she said it made him feel like she was being selfish (although wanting and needing your husband's love and affection when your not sure why it's being withheld doesn't exactly seem selfish to me) what he did and his actions can be seen also be seen as selfish. He is acting distant because it's what he wants and needs, even if he does it at the detriment of how Sinnomore may be feeling.

(and is being distant in order to protect you from it)

This I also can't agree with, it sounds way to much like the way a wayward would defend lying or omission. "I didn't tell you I did A,B,C,D because I didn't want to hurt you!!" It doesn't fly in those situations and it doesn't fly here for me either.

Sinnomore, you need to communicate with him. Lay your cards on the table and tell him you are there for him and how hi behavior is effecting him. Ask him if he'd be willing to talk to you and if you can help him but make it clear that the distance between you is not something you feel is okay. UO may very well be right here, he may have detached, if so you need to know. I agree with her on how you should approach this as well. She and many others have scolded, cajoled and encouraged me about making bad choices and trying to make healthy ones. As a wayward I feel many of us allow bad treatment from our betrayed spouses or SO's because we feel like they are justified in doing so. That is not true, in particular if you have been doing the work on yourself to become a healthy and authentic partner. We all deserve a chance at happiness in life and relationship, if he is not in it for the chance to rebuild a strong happy healthy marriage then where are you left? Are you going to be happy there?

HurtButHopeful? posted 9/9/2013 18:46 PM

walked over to him told him i needed him and kissed him...
As a BS, I want to hear my H tell me he needs me. But perhaps after you tell him you need him, you might ask him if you can kiss him rather than just "taking" a kiss? He might feel like you respect his feelings by asking next time. Hopefully someday you won't have to ask anymore.

Keep on telling him your heart.

Aubrie posted 9/9/2013 18:51 PM

few days of little to no conversation...his doing..he often shuts me out.
Is this normal? How has communication been since Dday? Better? Worse?

I ask because I always thought my husband shut me out. Not so. He's an introvert. It just took me darn near 10 years to figure it out.

And I think at 3 years out, you have every "right" to tell your husband you need him. For every person who posts that it was classless or insensitive of you to do so, another one will post "Gee, I wish my WS would say they want/need me."

Something I learned in this process. Open up my mouth and share. Obviously if QS is in the throes of a trigger, I'm not going to wax poetic about "my" needs. But on a random weekday? You better believe I'm going to tell him I think he's sexy as fuck and I want him. My husband is a words/actions kind of guy. He thrives on that stuff.

You're not stupid sinnomore. Trying to work on the relationship is not stupid. Trying to open yourself up to your spouse is not stupid.

Sorry you're hurting.

sinnomore posted 9/9/2013 19:55 PM

We are still in MC.. the last session was him individually just last week. I guess I reached out to him bc I could tell he was hurting, but I wanted him to know that I still loved him and was there for him. Maybe I was wrong for that.. but it's what I felt right at that immediate time...He says he hurts, he's sad, he's in pain.. All of the above and I accept acknowledge and validate his feelings. I own that I'm the reason he feels these things/this way. Some times he talks... but we seem to have to go through hell and back.. The roller coaster dips are further in between.. but they definitely dip. I'm sure that bc our 20th anniversary is this week, that he's triggering.. but interstingly enough.. it didn't start until I shared with him how I felt about something. & that's been the case the last few times... I'm finally sharing my feelings... and they get thrown back at me. What's the message to me then? Sure.. that's probably sounding selfish.. but ..if you tell me you need to know how I feel... and then you don't like it........but I've digressed..
Geez.. emotional divorce... hmm.. he says he's trying to maintain a marriage... I don't know if its' emotional divorce...I just think that when you don't address items and let them build.. then you get to a point where you start thinking the worse.. and instead of opening up and saying so.. it's this.. EMOTIONAL DISTANCE..
I've made soo many changes.. I needed to.. he's recognized them.. he's shared them with our MC, and it's not as if he doesn't recognize the changes that I have made and needed to help us.. to better me.

Nomoreplease - the kiss was NOT to make me feel better. It was to show him that I was thinking of him...

Funny about communication.. he always says he wants to communicate with me.. but doesn't always happen... I think its he wants me to communicate with him..

I usually ask if I can hold him or kiss him... this was a spontaneous move on my part. Don't think I'll be doing that again any time soon:(

Sorry so long.. thanks for listening/advice/lectures..

floridaredman posted 9/9/2013 20:39 PM

Hmmm. It does take time, 2 to5 years plus to recover. That being said, my gut feeling is he is wrestling with if this is a deal breaker for him

nomoreplease posted 9/11/2013 12:00 PM


I donít know if I didnít express myself clearly, if I hit a nerve, or if I just was way off base with my response (or maybe Iím just misreading the tone in your response), so let me try and clarify.

When does she get to need him again?
Always, thatís a big part of what M is (I do question the use of the word Ďneedí though).
If his distance has made her feel hurt then why can't she express this by telling him she needs him?
She can absolutely do this, but IMO, the way she went about doing it was not a very effective way and as I said could come off as selfish.
She doesn't know for sure why he is being distant and she won't know unless she asks because apparently he's not sharing.
That was my whole point. She needed to ask what was going on with him, which IMO shows that she is there for him and if Iím reading the situation correctly is more likely to get her what she wants (him to open up to her).
(and is being distant in order to protect you from it)
This I also can't agree with, it sounds way to much like the way a wayward would defend lying or omission.
I didnít say that it was right or healthy. I was just giving her a perspective that could explain it, and his reaction. I read the original statement as that she knew he was struggling with something (hence the distance/shutting down) and instead of asking about it/being there for him, she asked for him to be there for her (whether that is what was meant or not). If this is a representative example of her Ďbeing thereí for her BH over the last few years then I could see why he may still be protecting himself, even after 3 years.

For a little background on where my perspective is coming from, I tried to R for ~2 years with my unremorseful XWW. Throughout those 2 years we never made even the remotest of improvement on the M because of her complete lack of ability to be there for anybody but herself (not saying this is you, sinnomore).

ontheslope posted 9/12/2013 21:14 PM

Without knowing more about the BS, I hate to say I agree with floridaredman, but I am in a similar situation as your husband (4 years out, not 3), and I can tell you that I have had the exact same reaction to my WS and her attempt at a kiss.

I'm going to try and put this into words the best I can, but I hope it comes out right.

With me, this comes down to the fact that I just can't bring myself to give my WW what she 'needs' right now. In both of our cases it has been a long time since DDay, but if the hurts are still there, if the triggers are still there, perhaps your BS simply can't give you what you 'need' right now.

You wanted a kiss because you wanted to feel close to your BS, I'm guessing. You wanted to believe that there is still something there, some connection, some spark. There very well may be, but perhaps a kiss just isn't the way to coax it out. Perhaps it is not within him to give you that. Not yet. Or at least not at that moment. I know that is the case with me. If my wife comes to kiss me and I don't have the emotional strength at that moment to respond then I recoil. It is too much.

Be patient. If you and your BS are still together, then take that as a good sign. Work slowly. I know it has been a long time, but the hurts can still cut deep. Trust me.

Talk. Coax him to talk to you. And then listen. REALLY listen. Sometimes it is about getting him to put his walls down - not physically, but emotionally. Guys don't do that easily. When we're hurting, it is hard for us to talk about things. We want to be 'strong', but we still hurt.

I don't know if that helps. But it is the best I can offer. Perhaps he has emotionally detached. That doesn't mean it is over. It means that he feels alone, that he can't go about things as if they are what they used to be. The house has been torn down. You can't just throw down some blankets and call it home. It needs to be rebuilt. From the ground up. Stick by stick, nail by nail. And that will take time.

I wish you luck. You sound like you still have love for your BS. If you do - and it is truly love, and not just a fear of loss, then there is hope.

Unagie posted 9/13/2013 01:16 AM

Nomoreplease, no nerves struck I think I read your post the wrong way thank you for the clarification. I am also wary of the word need as it was something I quickly realized would hinder and not help R. I also agree in that moment her approach may have been off but she was trying to reach out. I knew when something was wrong with my SO and would ask him about it, or ask if he wanted to talk to me about it. Only after I exhausted all other ways would I reach out to hold or kiss him to let him know I was there if he wanted to talk or vent or anything.

Sometimes our approach as well meaning as it is hinders us more then anything. I apologize if I took your post the wrong way.

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