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User Topic: Trouble in paradise. Help talk me thru this....
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:23 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, this new guy is wonderful to me. He puts me first, treats me well, respects me, but I am having issues I need to talk thru here.

1. He is a poor college student (full time) without a job and so he does not have much money to do anything. He has put in a few applications but nothing yet. He was military for 5 years and is thinking of trying to re-enlist (he wants to afford a home and also to help me out from time to time which is really sweet ) but not sure the military will be a real option.

2. He owes his grandma $9K and has moved back with her to help pay it off (and have somewhere to live while in school). He was living with his buddy but his buddy lost his home so he had to move out. We aren't quite at the moving in together permanently stage for several reasons yet so.... He is paying down his debt to his gma thru his school money and also by working off some of it (he is giving her the $300 per month he was paying his buddy). Gma is very controlling. She raised him. He is somewhat afraid of her he admits, but doesn't really know why, not physically but she is the matriarch of the family.

So, he isn't allowed to spend the night here anymore . All summer we spent a LOT of time together and when DD was at her dad's he actually stayed here those 4 weeks. We were both extremely happy with that arrangement...he is easy to be with and we get along great.

But now DD is home, school has started, and he has to start paying down his debt to gma so since he lost his buddy's place he moved in with gma.

Now, in order for me to be "allowed" to spend the night with him at his gma's ...I have to let her get to know me and hang out at her house and jump thru whatever hoops hoping she approves of me and damn it...I'm 50 years old. I'm done jumping thru hoops. I've met the rest of his family and gone to see his other gma in the hospital and had lunch with his mom and gave his sister my old baby mattress and I've been doing the family thing and they all like me, I don't have a problem with getting to know his family because if we stay together they will be my family also, but this jumping thru hoops and having to get his gma's permission before we can spend the night together makes me feel 15 years old and it also feels degrading to me.

Honestly, at this age, I am done jumping thru hoops. I don't do it for my parents anymore either. I do what I want to do because I'm an adult. Sometimes they don't like it but they deal with it because they love me and I'm an adult.

I'm having problems with this. I miss laying in his arms all night. I miss waking up with him beside me. I NEED those weekends together again when my DD is at her dads and we can be together. Last 2 weekends he has been going home by 11 o clock and I am here alone. He has to live by her rules if he is staying with her...but WTF?

I'm kind of losing respect for him. I know he is in a tough situation and he owes her a lot (she has also supported him thru some rough times) but I don't know how to balance this. I feel myself pulling away emotionally from him. I can't do this for the next 2 years. It is painful to me and I have cried way too much and I feel myself shutting down emotionally and starting to think I am better off single again.

p.s We went from spending almost 24/7 together during the summer to now, when I only see him for a few hours a few days a week and then during the day on Fri, Sat and Sun. And now he is back with family and in that area of town, they are all wanting him to help around their homes (his dad, his aunt, his gma, etc...)so that time will even lessen some.....

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 3:36 AM, September 9th (Monday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Catwoman
♀ 1330
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 4:33 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How old is he?

That being said, "My roof, my rules." While her rules may seem unreasonable, they are her rules and he is living with her.

Unfortunately, you may need to put up with this until he has the means to afford a place of his own. Is spending the night together that important?

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29713 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
monarchwings
♀ 39891
Member # 39891
Default  Posted: 4:53 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd have a problem with this too.

He's a grown man without a job. I get that he's a student, but he is not a 19 year old student. He needs to be looking for a job as his job outside of school. Finding a job is work. What is his methodology for looking for a job. He should be out networking, trying to find job search teams. Finding companies he wants to get into. Trying to find contacts inside of the company. Calling them and asking if they can present his resume to the hiring manager. Hitting the career counselor's office monthly and developing a relationship with those folks, seeking out recruiters, trying to find a job as a waiter. Its a numbers game and he should have a weekly goal. There are chuches who have job ministries th as t can provide guidance and support. He should be reaching out to his military network. Looking them up on LI and networking with them.

How he handled the job search would be a key factor in my respect for him. It demonstrates his ambition in life. A job is not going to magically pop up when he graduates. Ops don't get executed without planning? Buy him the highly effective job search book.

Putting in a few applications is just not enough. Student or not..

Gently..do you ever get the vibe he is looking.for someone to take care of him? How old is this guy? How often is he going out?


Posts: 116 | Registered: Jul 2013
Amazonia
♀ 32810
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 5:41 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get that she doesn't want a stranger in her house, but I don't get why he doesn't just come stay with you when you don't have your daughter..? What am I missing?

Seems to me like he needs to manage his relationship with gma better, and you need to manage your expectations of the sitatuion until he gets it worked out.

What are his job prospects like? Will he be done with school soon? Does he have contacts and connections and leads?


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13870 | Registered: Jul 2011
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is 30. He just got out of the military 2 years ago and then started back to school.

Is spending the night together that important?
It wasn't before we got in the habit over the summer, but now it is. I miss it terribly and it was one of the ways we built up a strong bond/connection....that is when we spent a lot of time just talking intimately, plus my love language is touch....I wake up a lot during the night and just having him there next to me was really, really nice. Also, we both have PTSD and we sleep better and more deeply when we are together.

He's a grown man without a job. I get that he's a student, but he is not a 19 year old student.
Yes, he does need to figure something out here. I think he may need to go out of town to find something...we live in a small town with very limited options (fast food, liquor stores, or the casino.) He has applied at all of them except the fast food ones (which is where he worked before the military)
.He should be reaching out to his military network. Looking them up on LI and networking with them.
Okay....that is an idea he hasn't tried either. He has gone thru the veterans affairs coordinator at school but I don't believe he has looked at that network....

Gently..do you ever get the vibe he is looking.for someone to take care of him?
I have thought about this, but actually he wants to take care of me and my family. He helps out financially when he is able and he gets terribly upset when he has to borrow money for something (he always pays back promptly). It makes him real happy to be able to give me gas money sometimes and last month he paid for my oil change. He is feeling bad about himself for not being able to support himself and me well and that is what made him think lately about looking into going back into the military. Also, when he applied at the casino, he did call them back every day for about two weeks trying to check on the process of the job.

I get that she doesn't want a stranger in her house, but I don't get why he doesn't just come stay with you when you don't have your daughter..?
She has a curfew.

Seems to me like he needs to manage his relationship with gma better, and you need to manage your expectations of the sitatuion until he gets it worked out.
Yeah. Honestly, I think he is looking to her too much for approval; she was basically his mother figure growing up.....as for me, yeah. I am trying to be patient and deal with this. I am failing horribly at that though....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
alphakitte
♀ 33438
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Simply put, "It is her house and it is her rules." I don't think that he can respectfully "handle" his relationship with his grandmother. Either he abides by her rules, or he finds somewhere else to live.

Think long and hard before you start living together. I'd create a list of "must haves" before he could move in. Such as: He must have a job. He must have paid off his debt. He must be able to support himself 100%+. Sure, it is about not using you, but it is also for his self-respect.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Sad in AZ
♀ 24239
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you're not going to like this appraisal, but it sounds like he was 'playing grownup' during the summer months with you, but he is really not emotionally mature enough to be in an adult relationship. I understand that he wants to 'help' you, but I think it's part of his fantasy because he's really not in a position to do this.

As the others have said, it's her house/her rules. Yes, they sound ridiculous for a 30-year old, but she gets to make the rules, and he gets to decide whether or not he wants to live there.

For your own sanity I would not try to cultivate granny's approval. Your SO needs to come up with another viable solution, and you need to take a hard look at this relationship to decide if it's ever going to go in the direction you want it to.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20446 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
ninebark
♀ 24534
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have similar but different situations..lol.

My BF is 34, he is living at home and going to school (he is in his last year of his course and doing great), he works part time.

We agreed in the beginning that he was not going to move in until he was working full time in his trade and could pay the bills.

We don't get every night together, sometimes we get one or two nights, but only stays over on the weekends, if he isn't working too too late.

So it is all about comprimise and what you are willing to put up with.

How much longer does he have in school? Is that tollerable?

As far as his grandmother is concerned, he needs to talk to her about that one. Yes he is living with her and paying her back, but he is not a teenager, she does not have the right to curfew him. And if he can't work that out on his own, then i might be a little leary of continuing in a relationship with him.


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Think long and hard before you start living together. I'd create a list of "must haves" before he could move in. Such as: He must have a job.
Yes, and that is one reason we are not ready just yet. He does need to be self-supporting first.

For your own sanity I would not try to cultivate granny's approval. Your SO needs to come up with another viable solution, and you need to take a hard look at this relationship to decide if it's ever going to go in the direction you want it to.
Yeah, I am not going to jump thru hoops for anyone at this point. I make her grandson happy. That should be enough for her. And I am waiting to see how he figures things out here. I am hoping he comes up with something other than continuing to live with her, because I know I won't last 2 years waiting for him to pay off his debts, graduate, get established in a career, etc....

A

s far as his grandmother is concerned, he needs to talk to her about that one. Yes he is living with her and paying her back, but he is not a teenager, she does not have the right to curfew him. And if he can't work that out on his own, then i might be a little leary of continuing in a relationship with him.
That is how I feel also. He needs to be an adult and stand up for himself. I can't be with someone who still lets others determine their destiny for them.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Spirit13
♀ 31758
Member # 31758
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA,

Is he taking full advantage of the GI Bill benefits? He should be getting full tuition reimbursement as well as possibly a housing allowance and there are other things that apply for combinations of vocational training or rural location stipends etc.

Honestly, his past track record doesn't make him sound like someone who is really on top of his life and going to be a great candidate for a long term partner. That doesn't mean he isn't NOW getting his act together - so only you can determine this. The question is how motivated is he REALLY to get a job and how much is he busting his ass to change his life? If he isn't doing those things then I wouldn't want to hitch my wagon to that horse. You will always be having to either put the carrot in front of him or use the crop and who wants that kind of life?

[This message edited by Spirit13 at 9:16 AM, September 9th (Monday)]


Men were deceivers ever; one foot in sea and one on shore, to one thing constant never.

Posts: 620 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Midwest
alphakitte
♀ 33438
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't be with someone who still lets others determine their destiny for them.

He is determining his destiny. By not having a job and being in debt he is subject to the rules of his lender, and the owner of the home he resides in. In this case, his lender, and his landlord, are one and the same.

When he lived with his buddy he was subject to being kicked out if his buddy lost the house, and so on . . .

It isn't his grandmother that is standing in the way of his destiny. When he is free of debt, self-supporting, and living in his own place THEN he is in charge of his destiny.

[This message edited by alphakitte at 9:38 AM, September 9th (Monday)]


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The question is how motivated is he REALLY to get a job and how much is he busting his ass to change his life?
He has made a lot of changes in the past couple years, so he is working on things.

He is determining his destiny. By not having a job and being in debt he is subject to the rules of his lender, and the owner of the home he resides in. In this case, his lender, and his landlord, are one and the same.
Ok, that makes sense and you are right. He is allowing others to control him.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Crescita
♀ 32616
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, that makes sense and you are right. He is allowing others to control him.

Yeah, I understand grandma's house, grandma's rules, but this is a bit extreme. He is an adult. I don't understand why he can't say, "Grandma, I have other plans this weekend and I won't be home." Not waking her at odd hours of the night or inviting other people into her home makes sense, but as long as he let's her know in advance, grandma can't make a rule that he isn't allowed to spend the night anywhere else, ever.


“Happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue.” ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

Posts: 3528 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
million pieces
♀ 27539
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, that makes sense and you are right. He is allowing others to control him.

I don't think that is what she is saying. I take it as these are the consequences of his actions. He borrowed money, he needs to pay it back, and this is how it works best for him right now.

And I don't see it as a curfew. Her house and she doesn't want to be worried about him/woken up by him at all hours. She may also not approve of your age differences/intentions. But that doesn't matter. As long as he owes her money and is living under her roof, her rules.

When my SO separated from his ex, he moved into his parents house. Helped him out as he was still paying 100% mortgage and child support and his parents were having some serious health issues that he could help with. He was 45 and his parents still tried to enforce a curfew on him Since he was helping them as much as they were helping him, he had a little bit of negotiating room. He didn't bring back dates and they didn't comment on how late he was out. I'm really glad I met him after he moved out and bought a house


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 12
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
SBB
♀ 35229
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA, Are you seeing any red flags here?

I'm seeing about a billion just from your reaction alone. I don't mean to be blunt but how exactly is any of this your problem? I get that it impacts you and what you want but are you seeing what you have in front of you and how you are enabling his dependancy and him enabling yours?

Grandmas house, her rules. He doesn't have to like them, he doesn't have to tolerate them. I think they are ridiculous but I respect her right to set her own boundaries. Y'know - he can just GTFO.

If he can't then he needs to suck it up. Its his problem, causing YOU problems and you're blaming the grandma for not playing along nicely?

Maybe she's sick of his dependant arse? Maybe she knows something about him you don't or don't want to see.

I'm sorry to be blunt but I have found users and abusers are absolutely wonderful to the person who is enabling/supporting them.

Treating you wonderfully is not enough. Love is not enough. Nice times are not enough.

Dude needs to get his shit together and give you a call when he does.

Does any of his part in this bother you. At.All?

I get that people get into sticky situations sometimes but fuck me - living with grandma at 30 with curfews and no sleepovers and that is his ONLY option because his c20 years older GF cannot (should not) bend her own boundaries in regards to her daughter just smacks of something unspeakably unpalatable to me.

You say you are done jumping through hoops. Why the fuck are you jumping through all of these hoops for this guy who seems like an absolute train wreck? Maybe it is not a short term or recent thing.

As I said, maybe grandma knows something about him you don't. Yet.

Maybe I'm tired and I'm missing something here but this just stinks to high heaven. Are there no flaming red flags for you here?

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 11:35 AM, September 9th (Monday)]


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5657 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
hexed
♀ 19258
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe she's sick of his dependant arse? Maybe she knows something about him you don't or don't want to see.

This is what I was wondering.

I know he's in school but I know a lot of folks that manage to work, live on their own and go to school. Yes it may mean moving.

One of the best pieces of dating advice I got for later in life dating is this 'don't date potential'. You are dating the man he is right now. Not who he is going to be.

RE: The PTSD - TG has had significant issues with PTSD. The magnitude of the traumatic events in his life from 2004 - 2009 is mind blowing. HOWEVER - no matter how bad he is triggering, I still count on him to be an adult and be responsible for himself. I even get the sleep thing. TG will openly admit that he had major sleep issues until we started sharing a bed. I will listen, I will support, I will hold him through the total meltdowns that still happen once in a while. BUT I do expect that he is conducting his life as a whole as a fully functioning adult.

I know you think your guy is but look closely and be sure. No one here can tell you one way or another but there are a lot of red flags.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8489 | Registered: Apr 2008
Too_Trusting
♀ 99
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The part I don't get is WHY gma would be more agreeable to YOU spending the night at her house, but he can't spend the night at yours? You're not asking to let him come home at odd hours and wake her up. He's spending the night elsewhere.

And really? Would you be comfortable having your "weekend in his arms" at his gma's house???

What am I missing here? I don't get it.

[This message edited by Too_Trusting at 12:45 PM, September 9th (Monday)]


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2491 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't understand why he can't say, "Grandma, I have other plans this weekend and I won't be home.
Me either. Trying to figure this one out.

She may also not approve of your age differences/intentions
Actually, his whole family likes me pretty well and she seems okay with me overall (she isn't positive towards anyone...she is a ball of negativity). I'm the only one that seems to have had problems with the age difference.

As long as he owes her money and is living under her roof, her rules.
Yeah, that is kind of how it is.

NA, Are you seeing any red flags here?
Maybe, sort of, IDK.....

I don't mean to be blunt but how exactly is any of this your problem? I get that it impacts you and what you want but are you seeing what you have in front of you and how you are enabling his dependancy and him enabling yours?
It is my problem because like you said, it is infringing on how I want to spend time with my guy. How are we enabling each other? I'm not paying his way or letting him move in ....I am wanting him to figure out on his own how to deal with this....
Y'know - he can just GTFO.
That is what I want him to do, but he still needs to find a way to pay her back. He was giving her a little money while he was staying with his buddy but there wasn't much left over after his living expenses.

Maybe she's sick of his dependant arse?
No, he has had a lot happen to him past 8 years and he is working hard now to fix his mistakes and the traumas they left. He did work before he went into the military. He is looking for a job now, and he is working hard in school. He has also been in leadership positions thru school so again, he is working hard on bettering himself but he is definitely a work in progress.

As I said, maybe grandma knows something about him you don't. Yet.
He is her favorite. She is just controlling and negative. And I do know his entire history, he has not hid anything from me and has totally let me into his past (as well as his mother has had lots of stories for me).

BUT I do expect that he is conducting his life as a whole as a fully functioning adult.
Yes, and that is also one reason I waited a year to start dating him. He was working on getting his sh*t together when I first met him, but I was so impressed by the pro-active steps he has taken and the motivation he has had to move forward.

*sigh* This is good stuff to help me keep my eyes open for and to process. I guess time will tell here...


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ 20849
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And really? Would you be comfortable having your "weekend in his arms" at his gma's house???
Yeah, not really. That is another reason I'm not racing over there to try to impress gma and win her over. I have my own place ....child free on the weekends. He should be here with me then.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15404 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
tabitha95
♀ 22033
Member # 22033
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naive,
My first NB relationship was with someone who was not able to care for himself. It was starting to become a co-dependent relationship, like I had in my M. It was unhealthy for me.

The times we were alone and together "playing house" was great. But reality kicked in and I realized I would be carrying the weight of all the responsibilities, that he would be essentially using me. I was not willing to let him bring me down to what he considered as good enough in life.

There were other problems too, and his drinking was part of his inability to take care of himself properly.

I had the realization about a year and 1/2 into the relationship that just enjoying time together wasn't going to be enough. I've always been a strong independent woman. I need a man who matches that, not takes advantage of it.


BW (me) - 45
DS 14, DS 11
D-Day#1: Oct 30, 2008
D-Day#2: June 3, 2011 (same MOW) Separation: June 3, 2011
Divorce finalized: Feb 2012 (due to 6 month waiting period).

Posts: 3250 | Registered: Dec 2008
Topic Posts: 61
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