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Well, I guess I've had DD#2 or TT or something. Something was gnawing at my gut for a couple of weeks so I took his computer and did a data recovery of the stuff backed up into the Icloud. There they were in all their glory, pictures. Naked pictures of her she'd sent to him, pictures of lingerie she'd sent him so he could see what he'd could expect her in when they screwed the next time. Picutres of her in a naughty nurse outfit, a witch outfit, a pretty little gown with her hair all done up in an up-do with her staring intently into the camera smiling at him. Pictures of her home and her children she had sent to him, pictures of our kids that he had sent to her. Evidence of the lies he had told me. When asked if he'd sent her any pictures of our kids? "NO I didn't." had he sent pictures of things I had photographed? "NO I didn't" Had she worn any sexy underthings for him ? "No she didn't" Had she sent him any pictures of herself or any risqué pictures of herself to him? "No, she didn't" The answer to all these questions should have been YES with him showing me their texts as proof. But he lied. Lied to protect himself. He told me he didn't want to hurt me anymore by showing me the texts. I told him I was done, that he should pack his shit and get out of my life. He begged, cried, pleaded for another chance, apologized over and over in a puddle of tears on the floor. He smashed the lap top to bits declaring he didn't want to have a computer separate from me. I told him to get out, that I was sending the pictures to her husband. He begged for me not to do that, he would lose his job, lose his professional licenses, blah, blah, blah....he wasn't too worried about that when he was screwing her and getting these sick photos from her. He begged me not to throw him out, not to hurt our kids again. Said he couldn't got thru seeing them hurt again because of his stupidity. He was so sorry he hurt me. I'm just sick. Questions for the reconciled folks? How did you ever get past this? HOw did you get past the lies? The pictures and texts to reconciliation? My whole marriage has been a lie, I married a sick sex addict with no self esteem and no boundaries. How can I ever trust him again or feel confident that he is being a real person with me?

((Hugs))

TT is what I'm afraid of too. Or even sugar coating. What WH need to know is we NEED to know every last detail. We NEED the secrets to be exposed so it's not something they share anymore just the two of them.

I think the book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From An Affair is very good book.

I get why your WH is TT but he needs to read up and understand what you need. Also why are those pictures still there? Is he still wanting to look at them? I would question his motivation for change at this point. It almost sounds like he hasn't let go and the fog hasn't lifted completely yet.

Ultimatum, he's either all in or he's out.

How do you get past this? Not sure that you ever do. I understand where you are coming from - I went through pretty much the same thing. Everything was minimized, my wife said no to all the questions about did they take photos, videos, sext on Skype, graphic photos she took and sent him. I didn't believe her, and over the next year kept digging and finding proof. I guess they figure it's best not to admit to anything they don't think we can prove. I don't get it - even when I begged (big mistake there) her to just tell me everything, she lied and said I knew it all. I'm just at the point now where I figure if my gut tells me she lied about something, I just have to believe that she isn't being completely honest with me. I'm sure it's hard to tell your spouse all the nasty disgusting things you did, but I don't see how you can reconcile when one party is still lying. My wife smashed her laptop as well - I believe it was so I couldn't find any more information. I told her I was going to examine the hard drive, and she smashed it before I could look at it. Actions have consequences. If they don't want to face the consequences, then they shouldn't of had the affair and did all that disgusting shit. Of course, the fact is they thought we'd never find out. It takes a while before they figure out the crime isn't getting caught.

I would say this was TT as opposed to DD#2.

I told him to get out, that I was sending the pictures to her husband.

I totally understand you wanting to do this. Usually I am all for disclosure to the OBS. However, in this situation you do have to think about how this will financially effect not only you but your children.

How did you ever get past this? HOw did you get past the lies?

Time and actions by the WS.

How can I ever trust him again or feel confident that he is being a real person with me?

The same as above. Time and actions by the WS.

(((undonelife)))

undone - I am so so sorry...

pictures of our kids that he had sent to her.

this would be a dealbreaker for me.... send a raunchy pic of yourself, ok, but our children... damn.

I think for each of us it has to happen differently. But I can tell you in my situation my dumb H kept breaking NC. Each time I found out it killed me a little more.
When we were trying to R during this entire time, while he was attempting to be remorseful, and answering my questions, and being somewhat transparent there were twinges, of 'you will never get over this', 'when will you ever trust me' and occasional outbursts of anger over questions.

When I finally had it and threw him out, and he had his episode of snot and tears running down his face curled up in a ball on the floor, that was when he finally really got it. The whole dynamic of R changed at that point, he no longer cared that I snooped, he no longer hid what he did on the computer, phone, etc. Quit avoiding my calls, always gave me friends numbers if he was gone doing something with them, never got angry at me for having trust issues. He finally got it.

So yah, you caught him lying, and it may not be the last of it. IT takes time for the WS to defog usually. But it sounds like he is getting it. However actions speak lots louder than words.

When you snoop and you find nothing it starts to slowly rebuild your trust, but sister it takes time.

((((and strength))))

Painful: They were "there" really. He had deleted all them and thought they were all gone. He said he deleted them all so he wouldn't have to be reminded of it. He claims it makes his want to vomit when he is reminded in some way of how he hurt me. I recovered them with a data recovery program from the ITunes Icloud. We both had Iphones. I should have done it months ago but kept putting it off - too weak I guess to face what I felt in my gut. It would have been easier if he'd done it for me and showed them to me months ago. I think I could have handled it better. Tred: I feel like he smashed it to get rid of the evidence too, he really is afraid of losing his job but I also believe he smashed it so he wouldn't be reminded either. He does seem to be sick at what he has done. Last night, if his head was in his ass any at all, it was forcefully pulled completely out. I really was so very angry and done with him. I couldn't take anymore lies. My kids need us to stay together. They need to see forgiveness and grace in this situation. I hang on for that reason.

I don't know. She realized the moment I was hammering into her account and deleted everything before I could get to it, so I never saw anything and I was too shellshocked to run a recovery. She gave me a general idea of the content but it's something I can never verify and unfortunately never get past. I think I'd prefer discovering the lie like you did to yet another leap of faith. It isn't that I think it's any better, just that a firm establishment of objective reality means a great deal to me, however bleak it might look.

Sorry you found all that shit. You have to decide if you want to give him another opportunity to try again or call it and quit the field. That kind of deception is a second dday IMO. Take care of yourself and try to take it easy.

eta:

Well I found some shit from other sources but the bulk of texts, movies and pictures were in an account she destroyed.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:58 AM, September 11th (Wednesday)]

SisterMilkShake: Yes, the thought of him losing his job is stopping me. The OW BS would probably stop at nothing for revenge and I would end up hurting myself. I would love to see her fired tho! His other actions are spot on. He has gone completely NC, he is in counseling, has read several books and articles, gets weekly emails about affair recovery from a couple of sources, he's cut his hours at work to be home with us (the affair was with a mCW) He is all in here at home, helping with every thing, we do shared activites and date nights. He says he really is happy and enjoys being with me, cant wait to get home to see me after work. He's involved with the kids again. Seems to be all in. Last night he said he do anything I wanted, whatever it took, please don't leave me, that sort of stuff...so his actions seem right. I just wished he'd been honest about these pictures on his own.

rachelc: She sent him all kinds of pictures of her kids too! Pictures of them on fire trucks, their fun adventures, pictures of her holding her kids. God! He was totally her husband in every way! She sent pictures of her house to him. There was nothing she didn't/wouldn't share with him. She is as sick as he is!

I think I'd prefer discovering the lie like you did to yet another leap of faith. It isn't that I think it's any better, just that a firm establishment of objective reality means a great deal to me, however bleak it might look.

yep.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I feel so much better. Time and actions, time and actions....SIGH

((undone))

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this.

The ball is in your court. You don't have to make any choices right now. Or you may have already made up your mind.

I don't know if I'm being too soft, but it does sound to me like your H is getting it.

Have you asked him if there are any more details he needs to come clean with?

If there are, I'm betting he would tell you now...and you could look at that as progress in his healing of his broken self.

But still brace yourself just in case.

Wishing you only the best for you...

How is he doing with building his boundaries and his self-esteem? How often does he go to IC and how serious is he about going in with questions and goals for the session?

When fWH comes home from IC, he tells me about his progress. His boundaries are much stronger (not only for other women, but for his boss, his brother, his mother). He stopped allowing himself to have pity parties, and instead sets more goals for improvement. He's constantly thinking about his motives, and when he finds himself trying to impress someone, or using their compliments to pump himself up, he notices and stops. He turns it inward and figures out how to impress himself.

Something else he (and everyone) needs to watch out for is lying of any kind. Omission, white lies, denial, whatever. fWH installed an internal bullshit detector. He monitors that and self corrects.

When I get stuck in the details of what he did during the affair, I tell myself that fWH is becoming his true self now.

It's like he's finally growing up by parenting himself. (Not every WS is capable of doing that--there are personality disorders and addictions that get in the way for some.)

It's pretty cool to witness your spouse evolving, and there are lots of benefits. Despite everything, I'd rather be with today's H than in any other situation.

Who he is is who he is today.

I'm so sorry, undonelife. It seems pretty clear that among all the rage and disbelief is such heartbreak. I want to preface my response by making it clear that it comes from my own experience, and from many years farther down the road than where you are currently standing; it may not apply to you or anyone else, but it's all that I know first-hand.

My H nearly killed me and our M with TT and lies, particularly during the year-long false R and for about another 8-12 months following the second Dday. Obviously that meant very little during the false R because the greater hurt was the very fact that he was still in the A; lies and TT are an intrinsic part of any A. However, during our genuine R, after Dday 2, the lying and TT were the factors that nearly ended us. But...I've come to realize that at least in my case, while all forms of lying were unacceptable, they were sadly rather typical. They were also long ingrained patterns, practiced and finely honed throughout the 2 years of the A. Even prior to the A, I think my H sugar coated things that he felt might make me anxious or worry me, all in a truly misguided kindness to make my world as peaceful and lovely as he could. So, given over 20 years of well-intentioned hiding unpleasantness from me, followed by 2 years of purposeful malicious deceit during the A, it really was not too surprising (in retrospect) that he continued to lie and TT me in the early days of R. He had to extinguish some well established habits and learn new patterns of communicating with me and with himself. That took some missteps, corrections, and time.

My H and I stayed in MC and IC for at least a year following the second Dday. Among other things, my H worked on his "whys" and learning new ways to think about himself and M and to communicate. I spent time working on communication and self-healing. I learned how to more effectively talk about the A, process my emotions, and to respectfully demand the truth from him--he learned how to provide it. Granted, there were no huge lies uncovered after our second Dday, but there were several instances of TT that could not be tolerated or continued (and like you, some of the lies/TT's were enormous in the feelings of betrayal and pain they produced, but none of them pertained to broken NC). Our MC was wonderful in helping me learn to determine if those lies/TT's were "dealbreakers" or were "setbacks." Dealbreakers meant our ending; setbacks meant pain, anger, and commitment to work through it and course-correct. Obviously we worked through it and are fully R'd now.

Sometimes the TT/lies felt insurmountable in the moment, as well as for a few days following a discovery, but with work, commitment, practice, honesty, communication, and Time, we successfully got through it all.

One final thought: I too felt like "my whole marriage had been a lie," but as time passed, and some healing occurred, I realized that was too broad a statement for my life. I had over 20 years of a M that was pretty damn good, not perfect, but solid and good. During that time, we had thousands of hours of love, laughter, family-building joy. None of that was false. My H was a fine man, and a kind and wonderful spouse and father until the A; then he was perhaps one of the most unkind and deceitful people I have ever known. I trusted that the man in the A was the anomaly, not the man I had married and lived with for over half my life. It may be helpful to try and determine who your H was prior to his A; was his behavior and treatment of you prior to his A similar to that during and following his A? Which man has he shown more of a return to--"pre A man" or "post A man"? How does he respond when a TT or lie comes to light now? Does he help work through it or does he minimize it? Is he working to realize the true damaging effects of TT's and lies of omission/protection? Do you want to spend more time and effort working on these issues or has your fury, frustration, patience, etc simply exhausted you and you want out (it's ok either way)?

Your recent discoveries are fresh and so very painful. Of course it feels likes a second Dday, and your healing is re-set to the beginning. It must all feel like a tragic waste of time and emotional energy. Perhaps it is, but perhaps not. Take your time to process it.

Oh, and before I forget, I do hope that the other BS knows about the A; whether you forward the stuff you have recently discovered or not, he should know about the A. IMHO, if he already knows about the A, I probably would not send this stuff to him as it just opens up contact again. Take care.

I would feel a whole lot better about it if he said you should send the pics to her husband. That would show he was thinking of others instead of himself. He still sounds very, very selfish in all of his reasonings mi would be very leery, and very careful proceeding. Anything he isn't doing for you, should be done NOW. It is time to get real.

I think the cold answer is everyone needs to resolve these things for themselves. This is what I did:

I stopped loving her because she no longer deserved it. I did not believe anything she said anymore. Anything. If she said the sky was blue and it was a sunny day, well she was a lying witch and did not deserve my attention nor trust. I started living exclusively for myself and MY kids. They weren't ours anymore, they were mine. Screw her.

In short, I left the M without telling her or physically leaving. I stopped working on it altogether and decided I was better off on my own. I started planning for D without telling her. Talking to the lawyer, setting up apartments, getting ready to drop the bomb. At that point I wanted to leave and was going to do it smart and on my time frame. I simply kept telling her the 4 things she needed to do (what I wanted) for me not to leave.

1. Sex - early and often. She had better start delivering on a schedule.
2. IC - it needed to be regular and I wanted updates after each session.
3. NC ever - if there was and she did not tell me about it D. Period, no second chance.
5. She needed to stop being a lair.
4. Outside of sleeping with other people,I, from now until I decide not to D her will be running my own schedule and she will take a secondary role in the M and family. I did all the doctor visits. I communicated with the school and extra activities. She could help when I told her too.

All this is harsh, but I was done and those were my requirements. I assume that most people would balk and that, I was fortunate and my W didn't. Through her efforts she won me back to place where I can say I love her.

It all sucks, people are stupid until they aren't. Take of yourself...

He still sounds very, very selfish in all of his reasonings mi would be very leery, and very careful proceeding. Anything he isn't doing for you, should be done NOW. It is time to get real.

This. And read what Wert said. I see way to many BS's that go all in on R, and the WS never proves with actions long term what they need to in order to truly change. It is easy to do some of these things early on for a short period. But for the long haul, no. The only way it lasts is if the WS is truly getting it and is truly changing. My advice, detach and don't go all in. Sit back and watch.

"Granted, there were no huge lies uncovered after our second Dday, but there were several instances of TT that could not be tolerated or continued (and like you, some of the lies/TT's were enormous in the feelings of betrayal and pain they produced, but none of them pertained to broken NC)."

lostworld: I like this perspective you give. THese pictures proved that he had lied about details over the course of the last 6 months, but yes, he has had no contact, wants absolutely no contact, is sickened by what he's done, so I can see some hope from that perspective.

Searchingforhope: You're not being soft. I need to hear these different perspectives to work it out inside me. Thank you. I think maybe, maybe, maybe he is getting it now. I hope so anyway. I cannot take anymore lies, my heart cant do it.