TT is what I'm afraid of too. Or even sugar coating. What WH need to know is we NEED to know every last detail. We NEED the secrets to be exposed so it's not something they share anymore just the two of them.
I think the book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From An Affair is very good book.
I get why your WH is TT but he needs to read up and understand what you need. Also why are those pictures still there? Is he still wanting to look at them? I would question his motivation for change at this point. It almost sounds like he hasn't let go and the fog hasn't lifted completely yet.
Ultimatum, he's either all in or he's out.
I told him to get out, that I was sending the pictures to her husband.
How did you ever get past this? HOw did you get past the lies?
How can I ever trust him again or feel confident that he is being a real person with me?
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
pictures of our kids that he had sent to her.
this would be a dealbreaker for me.... send a raunchy pic of yourself, ok, but our children... damn.
When I finally had it and threw him out, and he had his episode of snot and tears running down his face curled up in a ball on the floor, that was when he finally really got it. The whole dynamic of R changed at that point, he no longer cared that I snooped, he no longer hid what he did on the computer, phone, etc. Quit avoiding my calls, always gave me friends numbers if he was gone doing something with them, never got angry at me for having trust issues. He finally got it.
So yah, you caught him lying, and it may not be the last of it. IT takes time for the WS to defog usually. But it sounds like he is getting it. However actions speak lots louder than words.
When you snoop and you find nothing it starts to slowly rebuild your trust, but sister it takes time.
Sorry you found all that shit. You have to decide if you want to give him another opportunity to try again or call it and quit the field. That kind of deception is a second dday IMO. Take care of yourself and try to take it easy.
Well I found some shit from other sources but the bulk of texts, movies and pictures were in an account she destroyed.
[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:58 AM, September 11th (Wednesday)]
I think I'd prefer discovering the lie like you did to yet another leap of faith. It isn't that I think it's any better, just that a firm establishment of objective reality means a great deal to me, however bleak it might look.
I'm sorry that you are dealing with this.
The ball is in your court. You don't have to make any choices right now. Or you may have already made up your mind.
I don't know if I'm being too soft, but it does sound to me like your H is getting it.
Have you asked him if there are any more details he needs to come clean with?
If there are, I'm betting he would tell you now...and you could look at that as progress in his healing of his broken self.
But still brace yourself just in case.
Wishing you only the best for you...
When fWH comes home from IC, he tells me about his progress. His boundaries are much stronger (not only for other women, but for his boss, his brother, his mother). He stopped allowing himself to have pity parties, and instead sets more goals for improvement. He's constantly thinking about his motives, and when he finds himself trying to impress someone, or using their compliments to pump himself up, he notices and stops. He turns it inward and figures out how to impress himself.
Something else he (and everyone) needs to watch out for is lying of any kind. Omission, white lies, denial, whatever. fWH installed an internal bullshit detector. He monitors that and self corrects.
When I get stuck in the details of what he did during the affair, I tell myself that fWH is becoming his true self now.
It's like he's finally growing up by parenting himself. (Not every WS is capable of doing that--there are personality disorders and addictions that get in the way for some.)
It's pretty cool to witness your spouse evolving, and there are lots of benefits. Despite everything, I'd rather be with today's H than in any other situation.
Who he is is who he is today.
My H nearly killed me and our M with TT and lies, particularly during the year-long false R and for about another 8-12 months following the second Dday. Obviously that meant very little during the false R because the greater hurt was the very fact that he was still in the A; lies and TT are an intrinsic part of any A. However, during our genuine R, after Dday 2, the lying and TT were the factors that nearly ended us. But...I've come to realize that at least in my case, while all forms of lying were unacceptable, they were sadly rather typical. They were also long ingrained patterns, practiced and finely honed throughout the 2 years of the A. Even prior to the A, I think my H sugar coated things that he felt might make me anxious or worry me, all in a truly misguided kindness to make my world as peaceful and lovely as he could. So, given over 20 years of well-intentioned hiding unpleasantness from me, followed by 2 years of purposeful malicious deceit during the A, it really was not too surprising (in retrospect) that he continued to lie and TT me in the early days of R. He had to extinguish some well established habits and learn new patterns of communicating with me and with himself. That took some missteps, corrections, and time.
My H and I stayed in MC and IC for at least a year following the second Dday. Among other things, my H worked on his "whys" and learning new ways to think about himself and M and to communicate. I spent time working on communication and self-healing. I learned how to more effectively talk about the A, process my emotions, and to respectfully demand the truth from him--he learned how to provide it. Granted, there were no huge lies uncovered after our second Dday, but there were several instances of TT that could not be tolerated or continued (and like you, some of the lies/TT's were enormous in the feelings of betrayal and pain they produced, but none of them pertained to broken NC). Our MC was wonderful in helping me learn to determine if those lies/TT's were "dealbreakers" or were "setbacks." Dealbreakers meant our ending; setbacks meant pain, anger, and commitment to work through it and course-correct. Obviously we worked through it and are fully R'd now.
Sometimes the TT/lies felt insurmountable in the moment, as well as for a few days following a discovery, but with work, commitment, practice, honesty, communication, and Time, we successfully got through it all.
One final thought: I too felt like "my whole marriage had been a lie," but as time passed, and some healing occurred, I realized that was too broad a statement for my life. I had over 20 years of a M that was pretty damn good, not perfect, but solid and good. During that time, we had thousands of hours of love, laughter, family-building joy. None of that was false. My H was a fine man, and a kind and wonderful spouse and father until the A; then he was perhaps one of the most unkind and deceitful people I have ever known. I trusted that the man in the A was the anomaly, not the man I had married and lived with for over half my life. It may be helpful to try and determine who your H was prior to his A; was his behavior and treatment of you prior to his A similar to that during and following his A? Which man has he shown more of a return to--"pre A man" or "post A man"? How does he respond when a TT or lie comes to light now? Does he help work through it or does he minimize it? Is he working to realize the true damaging effects of TT's and lies of omission/protection? Do you want to spend more time and effort working on these issues or has your fury, frustration, patience, etc simply exhausted you and you want out (it's ok either way)?
Your recent discoveries are fresh and so very painful. Of course it feels likes a second Dday, and your healing is re-set to the beginning. It must all feel like a tragic waste of time and emotional energy. Perhaps it is, but perhaps not. Take your time to process it.
Oh, and before I forget, I do hope that the other BS knows about the A; whether you forward the stuff you have recently discovered or not, he should know about the A. IMHO, if he already knows about the A, I probably would not send this stuff to him as it just opens up contact again. Take care.
I stopped loving her because she no longer deserved it. I did not believe anything she said anymore. Anything. If she said the sky was blue and it was a sunny day, well she was a lying witch and did not deserve my attention nor trust. I started living exclusively for myself and MY kids. They weren't ours anymore, they were mine. Screw her.
In short, I left the M without telling her or physically leaving. I stopped working on it altogether and decided I was better off on my own. I started planning for D without telling her. Talking to the lawyer, setting up apartments, getting ready to drop the bomb. At that point I wanted to leave and was going to do it smart and on my time frame. I simply kept telling her the 4 things she needed to do (what I wanted) for me not to leave.
1. Sex - early and often. She had better start delivering on a schedule.
2. IC - it needed to be regular and I wanted updates after each session.
3. NC ever - if there was and she did not tell me about it D. Period, no second chance.
5. She needed to stop being a lair.
4. Outside of sleeping with other people,I, from now until I decide not to D her will be running my own schedule and she will take a secondary role in the M and family. I did all the doctor visits. I communicated with the school and extra activities. She could help when I told her too.
All this is harsh, but I was done and those were my requirements. I assume that most people would balk and that, I was fortunate and my W didn't. Through her efforts she won me back to place where I can say I love her.
It all sucks, people are stupid until they aren't. Take of yourself...
He still sounds very, very selfish in all of his reasonings mi would be very leery, and very careful proceeding. Anything he isn't doing for you, should be done NOW. It is time to get real.
This. And read what Wert said. I see way to many BS's that go all in on R, and the WS never proves with actions long term what they need to in order to truly change. It is easy to do some of these things early on for a short period. But for the long haul, no. The only way it lasts is if the WS is truly getting it and is truly changing. My advice, detach and don't go all in. Sit back and watch.
lostworld: I like this perspective you give. THese pictures proved that he had lied about details over the course of the last 6 months, but yes, he has had no contact, wants absolutely no contact, is sickened by what he's done, so I can see some hope from that perspective.