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Newest Member: bob74 (46035)

User Topic: "Stats say 100% chance of affair recurrence"...
kickboxer
♀ 39858
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had my first IC appointment today. It was very clinical -- intake stuff, filling out forms, etc.

I'm not sure what to expect with IC, but felt a little caught off guard.

When I explained that my husband has admitted to having 2 PA/ONS, and 1 EA her response was to toss some stats at me, saying that, at 3 affairs, there is "100% chance of affair recurrence"

I took a deep breath, carried on with the questions/answers...and then about 10 minutes later she asked what I wanted.

Reminded me that the odds are against us.

The numbers say he won't be faithful.

And I cried.

I told her I desperately want my marriage, my husband, my family.

She gave a little nod -- nothing reassuring -- just a nod...then told me to schedule at the front desk for 2 weeks from now.

Does anyone know what "stats" she's talking about? A study I could read?

My analytic, detailed mind can't help but to wonder what other variables come into play with odds like that...is that 100% in marriages that don't seek counseling? Is that 100% in marriages that don't resume intimacy? Is that 100% in marriages that {insert any number of variables}?

Or is that just the way it is? Reality. Period.

I see it play out on here time and time again -- people who thought they had recovered, thought they were recovering, thought they had overcome infidelity...only to find history repeat itself?


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
outtanowhere
♀ 39001
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scares the crap out of me too!


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 800 | Registered: Apr 2013
Kelany
♀ 34755
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today is not a day for me to look at or even try to analyze stats. SIGH

But honestly, I would not seek therapy with someone who has such a negative view right off the bat. You need someone who is pro-marriage. I get not sugar coating and all, but crimany...some empathy would be nice.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Teach8
♀ 36521
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scares me too! You should ask the therapist where she gets her stats and all the questions you asked here. Would be interested to hear what you find out. However, I would say that we don't have to be a statistic, and neither do our ws's...if they choose to and work hard to heal themselves.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 509 | Registered: Aug 2012
MissesJai
♀ 24849
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would not seek therapy with someone who has such a negative view right off the bat.
Ditto. Makes me wonder if she's projecting her personal situation on to you. I would recommend finding another IC.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 6042 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Simple
♀ 18814
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWH had multiple affairs in an 11 year period. I guess if you stop there you can say the counsellor is right.

Now we're at 5 year R, and he has not had an affair since DDay. So if you stop the clock now, you can say the counsellor is wrong.

If you ask me what I think may happen tomorrow or 5 years from now, it's not guaranteed and that statistic may be right or it may be wrong.

I guess what I'm saying is, statistics doesn't matter so long as you understand that this CAN happen again. There is ALWAYS a possibility. Are you prepared for that? If it will destroy you if it happens again, then R is not a chance you should take. R is not for the faint of heart...

Hugs your way.


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

100% huh? I'd lol.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7635 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
kickboxer
♀ 39858
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't know how to respond, but did tell my WH immediately that I couldn't tell if she was going to support our marriage.

WH is seeing her partner (who also happens to be her husband). WH has has gone to several sessions, and felt he was very pro-family unit/marriage.

I'm hoping for a different feeling after our meeting in 2 weeks...


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
brooke4
♀ 13581
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think if it was three affairs with D-days in between--in other words three wasted opportunities to change, examine himself, redress the wrongs--the odds of it happening again are probably stacked against you. But even then, 100 %? That's just ridiculous.

It it was three affairs with one d-day at the end, where nothing happened in between to wake him up, I think that's a whole different story, and your odds are as good as anyone's.

I think you need to ask her to clarify first thing, because she may not have really understood the situation. But if she did, I don't think you want IC with someone who is going in with a pre-determined idea of what is good for you.

[This message edited by brooke4 at 5:04 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Feb 2007
heartbroken0903
♀ 27879
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is only 100% chance of affair recurrence if he decides to do it again.

I know that sounds kind of facetious and I don't mean it that way. It's just that I find it silly when people state 100% odds about something that is solely under someone's personal control. Like, there is a 100% chance that the sun will set tonight. There is a 100% chance that October will follow September and that Tuesday will follow Monday. I realize "chance" isn't even the right word to use there, but it's just an example.

With regard to personal choices such as cheating, that's different. It's not like invisible forces beyond your WH's control are going to "make" him cheat again. If he decides not to cheat again (and follows through with that decision), then it's 0%. Just saying.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 5:04 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

We remarried in 2014.


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Catwoman
♀ 1330
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps she wanted you to have a realistic view because, in my experience with a serial cheater, they have a LOT more work to do than someone who had a single affair.

I look at it this way: serial cheaters come in two categories.

The first category is those for whom an affair is a true aberration. They are generally honest and dependable people. Perhaps the affair was influenced by the confluence of several life events, such as a dying parent, turning a milestone age, etc. These people generally are horrified at their actions and they tend to work hard in therapy and with their spouse to rebuild.

Type II is those for whom lying and deceit is a way of life. They cheat on their taxes. Fudge expense reports. Have affairs. For these folks, affairs and lying are hand in glove. Lying and affairs are coping mechanisms vs. a single time period in someone's life. They have a LOT more work to do in therapy because they have a LOT MORE to work through. They have to unravel and rebuild a LOT of things about themselves in order to really heal. And, frankly, many are beyond it.

Now, this is a very broad generalization and of course there are exceptions to everything. But I do think your counselor is, in a very general sense, right about this. Perhaps she wanted you to think about the enormity of the rebuilding effort required.

If you still feel that this is not going to work for you, then by all means change therapists. You have to be comfortable in therapy and work with someone who can really relate to you.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29738 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
forgivingnow
♀ 33549
Member # 33549
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you need a new therapist ASAP.
(((Hugs)))


Me-BS 51
FWH-51
M 31 yrs.
Dday 3-19-11, TT 10/2011, Full truth July 2013
Strength comes from within. You can't get it from someone or go somewhere to get it. It is already here, waiting to be used when you need it most. Believe in yourself.
R

Posts: 624 | Registered: Oct 2011
shatteredheart7
♀ 39734
Member # 39734
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMHO, she doesn't sound supportive. I would find another C ASAP and wouldn't bother with the first appointment. However, that is ME and I hate hate hate when people throw statistics around as every person and situation is different. You need to do what you are comfortable with.


Me~40
FWH~46
Married 8yrs
Together 11 1/2
Me~ 3 kids, 21,17,14
Him~no kids
A with a mutual "friend" for 2+yrs
He confessed 9/9/12
A was over 2/12
7/13~ Happier than we have been in yrs!

Posts: 240 | Registered: Jul 2013
learningtofeel
♀ 39543
Member # 39543
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The first thing I told my IC after telling her the entire messy story was that I wanted to try to make the marriage work. I needed her to know that was the perspective I was coming from. If she had not been able to support that I would have found another one ASAP.

I am also dealing with serial affairs from my fWS - 7 over 15 years, all kinds - but only one Dday so far and we are both trying to do the work we are each responsible for to reduce those recurrence chances to as near to 0% as possible!


M 1989
3 young adult kids
D-Day 4.13.13
WS (him): 7 OW over 15 years
BS (me): had no clue

Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
Alex CR
♀ 27968
Member # 27968
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The only stat that's 100% is that we will all eventually die....taxes used to be in that 100% category too but if you listen to the news today they say not everybody pays taxes.

Studies are studies...I remember reading a study that said if you are a child of an alcoholic, statistics show you'll will most likely be an alcoholic..problem was the study was based on all the people who were alcoholics that became involved in the study because they were being treated for alcoholism....those of us who didn't become alcoholics were busy with our sober lives and didn't show up as statistics.....

I think a new IC is probably called for...she sounds like she's already made up her mind and if you want to reconcile, you may need someone who is a little more open minded about people being people and not numbers.


BS Me 61
WS Him 62
Married 33
Together 40
DD 11/16/09
The future looks good....

Posts: 1759 | Registered: Mar 2010
musiclovingmom
♀ 38207
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I would have ripped my paperwork into pieces, thrown it in the trash and said 'there is 100% guarantee you won't be my counselor' as I walked out the door. But, I'm a little hot-headed sometimes.

Posts: 1172 | Registered: Jan 2013
Rebreather
♀ 30817
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, she's an IC, not a MC so I see her loyalty should be to YOU and not your marriage. There are a lot of BS's trying to save marriages they have no control over. Why would she counsel someone to stay in an unhealthy relationship? You only control yourself. That said, she may not know the work your spouse is doing. In that, I agree with Catwoman. Repeated affairs not addressed by the wayward are 100% likely to repeat. Counseling isn't the only way to address them, but if shit doesn't change, well then, shit doesn't change.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6693 | Registered: Jan 2011
ladies_first
♀ 24643
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I explained that my husband has admitted to having 2 PA/ONS, and 1 EA her response was to toss some stats at me, saying that, at 3 affairs, there is "100% chance of affair recurrence"

Regardless if this IC is the one you choose (there are others who may be a better fit), may I encourage you to ask her to back up this claim. Scholars need to footnote these types of studies.

Lots of BS' here on SI who'd benefit from scientific evidence!

Thanks in advance for asking on our behalf.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Clarrissa
♀ 21886
Member # 21886
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a FWS my first impression was your therapist was trotting out that old chestnut "once a cheater, always a cheater".

Our own BrokenRoad was technically a serial cheater - she had 5 As - but guess what, she and WH5 are reconciled and she hasn't cheated again. You could say the same about DS. Serial cheater - WAS, not anymore.

As for the stats, IMO *nothing* is 100% certain when it involves human beings - except death. Yes, it's possible to cheat death but it WILL catch up to you eventually.

If you're not comfortable with this therapist then find another. Nothing says you *have* to stay with her. Many here have "shopped around" til they found a good fit.


BH Cee64D - 48
WW (me) - 49


All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.


Posts: 5896 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: A better place
PamJ
♀ 40475
Member # 40475
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, September 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it were me I would probably go back for the second appt and see how it feels with her. The first time seems like it was pretty brief and all new to you.

Then, if it still didn't feel right I would make a change. As someone said before me, she is there for you first, then your marriage if you made it clear that is what you want, but not at your expense if she thinks the marriage is unhealthy for you. I'm not saying she does, but she is your IC first.


Me: BS 50+
Him: WH 60

3 EAs

2 grown sons, 1 grown step-son

Last DDay, March 19, 2013 after a few weeks of TT- trying to have a new marriage after almost 35 years.
No more chances.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2013
Topic Posts: 42
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