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TrustGone posted 9/13/2013 01:07 AM

My xMIL fell the other day and broke her leg. She is in her 80's now and I don't see her doing very well with it. Her sister called me from the ER requesting I come and be there while she was in surgery.

This is the same xMIL that testified against me in court during my custody battle with XWH#1(her son). After they became estranged, she started to call me again. She apologized and I accepted it as blood is thicker than water and she is old. I didn't however agree to take care of her or be there for her needs. I feel that is no longer my place.

Anyway, tonight I was talking to WH#2 about it and how I felt sorry for her and I wished that I could be there for her, but felt it was no longer my place. I said that I was just a forgiving person and did not wish anyone to be hurt. His comment was that I certainly was forgiving because if not he wouldn't be here today. I didn't respond.

I have not forgiven him or what he did at this point and have never told him I did. I don't know if I ever will forgive him for what he did to me and our marriage.

Should I forgive him if I don't want a D? We are not in true R because he is a rug sweeper and refuses IC or to work on any of his issues that lead to the A. He just wants it to all go away. How do I handle this without seeming like a bitter bitch and telling him I don't forgive him? I guess my question is should I have said that I didn't forgive him and has anyone else's spouse assumed just because they are still married and under the same roof that they are forgiven for their A.

TrustGone posted 9/13/2013 01:18 AM

Sorry mods... Can you please move this to General? I did not realize I posted this in JFO until I sent it.

Daddo posted 9/13/2013 04:14 AM

So many people tell use that the christian thing is to forgive. I don't buy the cult of forgiveness. Were my WS to ever truly apologize and show that she really understands the damage she has done to me and to our children. Then I can forgive. But to forgive before the hurter accepts responsibility . . . . I'm not capable of it.

Should you " forgive him if I don't want a D"? I don't understand the question - but I don't think you can honestly forgive until he has shown remorse.

WS's out there, if you are reading this, just show remorse. Own up to the pain you caused and the damage you did - and healing can follow,

Snowy posted 9/13/2013 08:32 AM

Should I forgive him if I don't want a D?

Unfortunately I have been on this board for 5 years trying to come to grips with my WS affair.

When you first find out there are a lot of questions and emotions that come to the surface.

The question you ask is an importantant one. It is a question you will need to eventually ask yourself when the dust and everything dies down.

If you don't want to divorce the answer to this question is YES. If you answer answer yes, then the really hard question is how do you forgive them? It will take time, it will take both people wanting to make it work and it will require a lot of work from both parties.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean we forget.We will forever carry the scares.

If you answer no, then divorce. Eventually the bitterness and hurt will destroy you and push you appart

The choice is yours

[This message edited by Snowy at 8:40 AM, September 13th (Friday)]

Jennifer99 posted 9/13/2013 12:31 PM

Yes. WH just assumed since I didn't throw him and his stuff to the curb that I forgive him.

I don't think it ever dawned on him I was too busy and too tired to be bothered.

But I did eventually start talking to him again. When I did and it wasn't "get out" but instead things like family, neighborhood, household stuff I figured he had a right to assume I was at least on the road to forgiveness because if I wasn't why would I be talking to him?


We have a drunk and ignorant neighbor. He has antagonized H for 6 years now. He's never bothered me. My car died over the weekend and it was the second time drunk & ignorant was nice to me (the other was when he pointed out a dead headlight). D&I tried really hard to be pleasant and helpful and neighborly in spite of H totally pretending like he didn't exist. The dude is on his porch and we're cranking a dead car over and over and he talks...I can't just ignore him.

Now D&* is trying to be neighborly and chatty with H every time he sees him.

H complains to me.

I say "maybe he realized he was being a ____ and just wants to start over...."

H says "well an apology would be nice"

Me: *blink*blink*

H says "WHAT?!?!"

Me: *blink*blink*

H says "F you J99"

Me: *snicker*

H then starts blaming me for the neighbor being nice to him now. If I wouldn't have encouraged him and been polite and chatty with him he'd still be leaving H alone.

Oh so sorry - if we're going down the road of NEVER talking to assholes again you had better get out.

RidingHealingRd posted 9/13/2013 16:38 PM

I would absolutely let him know that you don't forgive him. I think too many BS stress over forgiveness - not me. Days after Dday my WH said, "I know you will never forgive me..."
I quickly responded with, "You are right about that, I will never forgive you"
3yrs post Dday, living with a model WH and I still have no intention of ever forgiving him.

Some things are just too HUGE to forgive - infidelity tops that list.

Going To Make It posted 9/13/2013 16:52 PM

TG, I am in the same boat as you. I can't say I won't ever forgive him, I just know until he steps up to the plate, stops trying to rug sweep and do the hard work to restore our bond I can't.

If he does say he's sorry for a trigger, I tell him "You're Forgiven" I NEVER say I forgive you. He is famous for twisting the meaning of words and uses loop holes to get around certain syntax.

It helps me when I say this, I do believe his family has forgiven him, so I think of that when I say it. But again, it is very rare that he ever says he's sorry.

Hang in there, I know how much limbo sucks

Simple posted 9/13/2013 17:44 PM

We are not in true R because he is a rug sweeper and refuses IC or to work on any of his issues that lead to the A.

Why have you not done 180?

Back to your question on forgiveness, I am in the belief that we should forgive, when you forgive however, it doesn't mean you forget or that you stay with the person. You can D and still forgive. It's easy to forgive pitiful, pathetic, little people... Joking aside, forgiveness, in my book is for MYSELF. Not for that person that hurt me. For me if I forgive I stop inhaling the toxic fumes and just let it go. Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget about A, or that FWH is now in the clear. In your situation, and in others here, I did say to my FWH that I have forgiven him when he asked for forgiveness. His answer as a truly remorseful FWH is, he's glad I said that but he doesn't think it's true. He said for him it doesn't matter, he's done his job of asking for forgiveness and the rest is up to me, that I shouldn't force forgiveness. My answer to that is "good, just don't forget you also have to learn to forgive yourself." His answer to that, "I haven't yet, I'm working on it. It's difficult."

Hopefully that helps you.

Pippy posted 9/14/2013 16:04 PM

Forgive him for cheating on me? Well yeah, maybe, I guess. I just don't care about them any more. So it's more of a letting go.

Forgive him for breaking up our family and ruining all our retirement plans? NEVER. I'll hate him until the day I die for that.

doesitgetbetter posted 9/14/2013 17:36 PM

If you want him to stop rugsweeping, then my best advice would be to stop participating in that rugsweeping post haste if I were you. When he says something like that, then you respond with "no, I haven't even come close to forgiving you. Maybe once you start talking about it and working on the issues and working on yourself then I might be able to forgive you."

Hope2B posted 9/14/2013 18:03 PM

I am not going to pass out any forgiveness tickets, not after the new spins and stories I've heard over the last few days.

I asked WS what he was going to do for penance, and how he was going to show remorse, and said it was going to take more than saying an Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be prayer for him to do penance FOR ME TO SEE HE IS CONTRITE.

I think forgiveness is a road we walk. I also believe it to be a process. If the A (which is now disclosed to be 5 years instead of 8 months, if that's even to be believed) had happened the way he first presented it to me (8 months duration), I understood it to be happenstance and he was weak willed and I forgave him. Now, knowing that was a lie, and learning more about his different lies, I'm just not there on the Forgiveness Train yet. It may take years, or the rest of my life.

Understanding that the behavior happened is quite different from forgiveness.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 6:05 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]

sjf89 posted 9/15/2013 07:30 AM

Dear TG,

I can totally relate to what you are feeling about forgiveness. In my case, however, we are in R as my H has shown deep remorse and a strong willingness to make our marriage work. I still struggled with the concept of forgiveness because I wasn't really sure how to go about it and I kind of felt like it was me letting him get away with something - but I also feel it is a necessary component in the effort to have a successful R. I found these steps to forgiveness on another site and I have to say it really helped me to put "forgiveness" into perspective:

Steps toward forgiveness - a gift that we give ourselves:

1. Acknowledge your own inner pain.
2. Express your emotions in non-hurtful ways without yelling or attacking.
3. Protect yourself from further victimization.
4. Try to understand the point of view and motivation of the person to be forgiven.
5. Replace anger with compassion.
6. Forgive yourself for your role in a difficult relationship, then decide whether or not to remain in the relationship.
7. Perform the overt act of forgiveness verbally or in writing.

Forgiveness is letting go of the need for revenge and releasing negative thoughts of bitterness and resentment. Forgiveness is not forgetting or pretending it didn't happen. It did happen and we need to retain the lesson learned without holding on to the pain. Forgiveness is not excusing. We excuse a person who is not to blame. We forgive because a wrong was committed. Forgiveness is not giving permission to continue hurtful behaviors nor is it condoning the behavior in the past of in the future. Forgiveness is not reconciliation. We have to make a separate decision whether to reconcile with the person we are forgiving or whether to maintain distance.

Good luck.

StruckNumb posted 9/15/2013 08:27 AM

TG, I can related to what you you are going through. I even went to a psychic to get some insight. She picked up on my predicament and I told her I was terrified of dying and taking my anger towards my WH with me and that I wanted to forgive but just can't do it. She told me forgiveness was nothing you can force but it is a grace given by God.

I haven't been graced yet.

My WH, too, just wants it to go away and I think this has a real impact
on my inability to be given to that forgiveness. He just wants to pretend that the fallout can just fade away into the past and we're suppose to just get on with it. And this makes me even more angry and feel even more invalidated.

MJane posted 9/16/2013 03:51 AM

Sif89 - your post really helped me - thanks for posting. It is so true that every time I think of potentially forgiving at some distant point in the future it feels like an act of weakness. I think real remorse must happen before any thoughts of forgiveness can take root and my H is still in rug-sweeping mode.

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