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cytron posted 9/14/2013 21:57 PM

The link above is to the story I posted a few weeks ago about my world being rocked with the knowledge of my wayward spouse.

The confrontation happened tonight and I am here to tell the story. I sat my WS down to tell her what I knew. I started off by telling her that the last four months of my life have been hell and I admitted to the many mistakes I have made in our marriage. As many people posted, the marriage takes two. I owned up to everything I have done wrong with the marriage and the kids. I then paused and took a deep breath. (sorry my mind and heart is numb so I won't get this right)

I asked her to tell me why she has been so distant to me, more impatient than usual, argumentative in front of our kids, etc. etc. I let her say some of her feelings. Then I asked her what happened between her and the OM on the night that they "stayed in" drinking. She said nothing happened. I asked why they didn't go out like she said they were going to. She said it was cheaper to stay in. I asked her if that is all that happened. She said yes, we had a few drinks and I came home. I took another long and deep breath and asked her again to tell me the truth about what happened that night. Again, she said nothing.

I told her that I know what happened on that night. She again said nothing happened on that night. The next few minutes are kind of a blur so be patient with me. I said I know what happened. I said that you cheated on me that night. What do you mean, she said. I told her that I would never in a million years would check her cell phone because I trusted her...until a night three months previous that a text message came across from OM that caused me to look. I told her that I looked at her text messages from him and her back to him and then she almost yelled at me for looking at her texts and that she trusted me. I was like...whoa!!!!

I said, sure I trusted you, but this text caused me to untrust you. I said I know everything. The flirting, the sexting, the "what are you going to do to me" when we get together, etc. etc. etc. I told her I know it all. I again, said, look be truthful....tell me what happened that night and the other nights. She said she did not have sex with him. She said it was purely banter back and forth and they were having fun and she would never cross that line. She gave me a bullshit story about why she changed her passcode. I don't believe her. I launched into about 45 minutes of how could you do this to me and the kids. She kept claiming that she didn't have sex with him. She did nothing with him according to her.

After my talking, I asked her to tell me why she did it. She launched into a discussion (one way) about how she felt about me and her, how she has been hurt for this many years, etc. etc. and how she reached out to him for support when I wouldn't support her. She said he would be the one who would listen and know when she is upset. She told him everything that has ever happened between us. From the broken marriage to how she feels about my parenting skills and who knows she probably told him about our intimacy issues. She would cry and he would be there for her. After a few minutes I said, well you have told me and admitted to me that you have had an EA. You relied on someone else other than your husband for support. She agreed.

Again, I asked her if she had sex with him. She said no, it was all flirting and bantering. When I asked about the morning after and she said, can't exactly have a mind blowing experience and not think about it...she tried to play it off as if nothing happened. Flirting over texting is not a mind blowing experience in my mind. Is it in yours?

I asked her point blank how many times they did it, where they did it, what they did at my house when dropped off an air hockey table. I said I hope this is all worth you destroying your marriage, family, friends and possibly your job over this. Some silence ensued and she kept denying that she did anything physically with him. All this time, I am reading the text messages to her and she is denying that she did anything with him. She has hugged him (as I witnessed while he was dropping off the hockey table), but she has never kissed him, had oral sex, sex or any other physical activity.

She was bawling telling me all her emotions. She did admit that she sent all the texts. She did admit that she thought about taking it further, but couldn't. She told me she told him that they can't do this anymore and they stopped the texting. I said I know that because I checked her phone every few days until she changed her passcode. She works with the man everyday so I don't see how that is possible as she has contact with him everyday.

She asked me what I want her to do. I say that I have spoken with a lawyer, I have been in IC, etc. I have separation papers drawn up and she instantly says that she will sign them. ????? What?

I retreated and went into my normal unassertive mode and said wait a minute. Probably the kiss of death, huh? I showed the vulnerability that everyone warned me not to show and I did it. I told her that I needed time and I needed her to leave and I never showed her the separation papers. Post Nuptial agreement is what they call it and is legally binding in my state. I told her to leave for a few hours while I picked up the kids, got them to bed and got to sleep myself. I told her that she could come back and sleep on couch. Probably another big mistake.

I don't know anymore. I feel proud that was able to do this and I am glad she was honest about the EA....but I still don't trust that she did not have a PA. Mind blowing experience, wanting him in her mouth, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on and on. I just don't know.

Well now that I put everyone to sleep I will go myself. Any advice from anyone would be so helpful right now.

traildad posted 9/14/2013 22:14 PM

First of all, everything is going to be ok. In the end, you will be ok. Time will put all of this behind you.

I started to type a long winded post refuting and critiquing everything she said and you did. Scratch that - I can summarize the situation in one sentence.

Don't believe a word she says, and she called your bluff.

Another thing, did you tell the OM's spouse? If not, you need to ASAP.

Finally, dust yourself off and get back up. She scratched and clawed and exploited your weaknesses. She wanted you to beg her to stay, and you did. You gave her all of the power. She lied, you know they have had a PA, she will continue to lie.

Here's my advice: Have her sign the papers if she says that what she wants. This needs to feel real to her. Stand up for your family. Tell the OM's spouse what you know. If she gets cut off from him she may start to come out of the fog.

Another thing, read some quotes by men like Theodore Roosevelt, etc. Think about what they would do in this situation. Stand up.

"In short, in life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard: donít foul and donít shirk, but hit the line hard."

I was in your situation, had the same exact conversation. My xWW even packed up her clothes in the car. I begged her to stay, sigh, she did, and a month later she was still in the A. I should have let her leave.

[This message edited by traildad at 10:23 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]

Hope2B posted 9/14/2013 22:27 PM

I am so sorry, cytron, that you are going through this.

I'm on the outside looking in, reading your posts, and my thoughts are this: She is lying. She is trying to do damage control.

If she wants to sign the separation papers (or post nuptual agreement or whatever it's called), let her do so. You don't have to turn them in to anyone, but this WILL indicate if she is not interested in staying, and her behavior shows she's really more into the other person.

I also doubt that this is an EA for her. A woman doesn't text stuff like you found to someone with whom they have not been physically intimate.

BTW, if a woman is crying and telling you all of her emotions, after all the info you've written here, I am sorry to say that she is most likely using every means at her disposal to manipulate you.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to just admit the truth, and not practice this kind of subterfuge, unless they believe it benefits them in some way.

TS68 posted 9/14/2013 22:53 PM

Cytron: there is no way you can believe anything she is telling you. She is in CYA mode and will only admit to what you have proof of. I agree with the last two responses, she is lying to you!!! Why why why can't some people just come clean??

Protect your kids from this filth. They deserve to be shown what character really is.

What these waywards need to realize is that they made a mistake and own up to it. The only marriages that should (IMO) survive infidelity are ones where the WS takes full responsibility for their LIES. Otherwise, you are just burying your head in the sand.

You have kids who need to know right from wrong and how to be accountable for their own actions. YOU have an opportunity to teach them!

Sorry for the rant, I am coming from the place of a wife who is constantly being lied to and still cannot figure out what my H is really up to. I too confronted early on but with much less than you had. Now, my H goes to work each day with her and if I show my insecurity with it he calls me crazy. He is a master gaslighter but without proof I am afraid I will lose my kids.

I commend you for your honesty with your wife. You have given her every opportunity to take the high road, but she did not take it. Like some other wise SI person has quoted " when someone shows you who they really are, believe them"

Best of luck and (((hugs)))

mchercheur posted 9/14/2013 23:08 PM

Agree with Traildad.

Have her sign the papers.
Insist that she leaves the house.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to wake her up.
If you want out, it wont matter.
Definitely tell the OMBW.

If you don't do the above, she will cake eat indefinitely.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 11:09 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]

mandan66 posted 9/14/2013 23:32 PM

Cytron: the other comments already posted echo my thoughts precisely, particularly 'traildad'(kudos, brother!). You are being lied to, and she needs to wake up. My scenario closely mirrors yours. My bluff was called many times in the beginning, and if I could have a do-over, I would have drawn my line in the sand much more quickly. As it was, my suffering was prolonged by about 7 months. Please please don't go there. She may never straighten out, or become the woman you want to spend the rest of you days with. She definitely won't if she always feels she has one foot in the door with you. Close the door on that foot, but hard. Focus on you and your children. No matter what, you will survive this. I know, because like many others on this SI, I never thought I would. It was not a miracle, it was just a slow process of believing in myself, and sorting through the untruths and lies.
In two weeks, more divorce will be final. I am happy about it, and she, whose idea it was in the first place, is miserable. Yet not once did she try for any counseling.
Remember: irresponsible folks do some pretty dumb things, so the worst may be yet to come. Again, you can and will suvive that also. Focus on you and the kids; that can be a win you pull out of this. Her--she's got to get her head out of her butt before anything positive can happen. She has to genuinely own what she has done. And---that may never come. Mine never did. So now it is time for CYTRON to get his ducks in the row. Now.

Dark Inertia posted 9/15/2013 00:16 AM

Will you be telling the other betrayed spouse?

sinsof thefather posted 9/15/2013 03:59 AM

Plus another one for you following traildad's advice. She's calling your bluff with the separation papers - you need to stand up to her and make her not feel so confident about you. I know it's not half as easy to do as it is to say.

stronger08 posted 9/15/2013 05:30 AM

Kuddo's for having the balls to confront. Now the most important part in all of this is follow through. Don't make shallow threats. Go full throttle and lay a massive dose of reality on her. I'd bet my left nut the first thing she did after she left was contact OM and give him a heads up. She is calling her plays directly from the WS handbook. Deny, deny, deny till you cant deny anymore. Then blame you for what happened. She is going to feel you out as to what you can prove. Don't tip your hand so quickly and never give away your sources. As traildad has told you time to hit the line hard. Be prepared for a lot more bullshit and blame from her. Lay them papers on her ass. The only course of action you have right now is to serve her up a big plate of consequence. Without it you only spinning your wheels. And if you back up one inch right now she will exploit it and your life will become much worse. A WS can smell weakness a mile away. They will soak it up and use it to manipulate you into allowing them to continue their nonsense. Be strong man. The only choice you have now is to forge ahead. Good luck brother.

Gipper posted 9/15/2013 06:46 AM

Haha! My WW said the exact same thing yours did. I reacted like you did and it bought me 4 more months of games, lies, blameshifting, etc. I think you did well in your confrontation. Listen to your friends on here. Tell OBS, drop a VAR or two to get more evidence, make her sign the papers, and detach.
These people thrive on our predictability. They have learned how to manipulate us in ANY situation. You need to start zigging when she expects you to zag, and vice versa. Try not to show emotion because they see that as weakness. At least give the impression that you are takin out the trash and moving on in your life without her and her boyfriend.
Stay strong, friend.

jb3199 posted 9/15/2013 07:20 AM

The other posters have covered everything, but I still want to say kudos for confronting. No matter how many times you rehearse your script, it will always take a turn that you are not prepared for. But she left that conversation knowing that you are aware of her affair, and that you do not believe her.

Ultimatums are difficult if you are not 100% ready to follow through at that moment. And although you probably want that threat as a do-over, it is nonetheless out there. She called your bluff, you backpeddled, and she took advantage of such. But what is important right now, is to stay on the offensive, especially telling the OM's wife in a convincing, compassionate manner. I would also take her up on signing those papers for you.

I know that you don't want to think about this, but what if she won't change? Will you continue to stay in this marriage like it is today? If not, then the signing of those papers are an early start to your recovery. If she comes around, and wants back in the marriage, you can decide at that point if you want to proceed or not. But the truth is, there is no easy way around where you stand in your marriage right now...your ship has sunk, and you have to swim in some direction towards shore.

You have aired her dirty laundry to her. You KNOW that she is lying. To oversimplify this, continue to treat her as a liar, until her words and actions match one another. The more that you detach, and are unwilling to accept her behavior, the better that you will start to feel. And this is what it is all about---getting you to a better place.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 7:22 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]

cytron posted 9/15/2013 09:20 AM

My biggest mistake was not making her sign those papers when she volunteered to do so. I resisted and didn't give them to her. We continued to talk and at the end I asked her to leave while I picked up the kids. She refused to take the papers with her. I got them home and into bed and she came back at some point and slept on the couch. I came down in the morning and she was emotionless. Asked me what she should do. I asked her to leave and take the papers with her. She didn't take the papers but left. She has been texting me asking forgiveness. I told her how can I forgive when she committed the ultimate betrayal. I know I need to stay and be strong and do what is best for me. However I have never thought of myself only thought of others in my life so I don't know how to think of myself. I just don't know. I am too weak to handle this.

mchercheur posted 9/15/2013 09:32 AM


I would bet that almost all of us have felt that way.
But you CAN do this. Sending you strength.

Imagine all of us at your back, standing behind you, when you talk to her

[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:33 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]

crazycatlady posted 9/15/2013 09:36 AM

You aren't weak, you are doing a great job. We all have periods where we go backwards but seriously, you are doing great.
Now what to do? Start a hard 180. No discussions if she refuses to sign them unless its about kids and finances. No testing, phone calls nothing unless its strictly the above.

If she signs them, take the papers to your attorney. Don't bluff any more. Go through with your threats, once she sees this she will fall on either side of the fence and either way, you go on and she falls.

Good luck. You are doing great.

atsenaotie posted 9/15/2013 10:26 AM

cytron, you did fine. She was not going to sign the papers. You have given her opportunities and she has balked each time. As for the PA, you know that truth too. At dday I thought I needed my WW to admit for it to be true. In retrospect I had all the proof I needed going into dday.

Focus on you and your kids while you catch your breath. Take care of yourself. Believe nothing your WW wife says, and only trust sustained actions and behaviors.

MC_Jack posted 9/15/2013 10:38 AM

Ok so she is asking for forgiveness. I would not ask her 'how can I forgive you for the ultimate betrayal' and instead tell her HOW you are going to do that which includes specific actions from her:

1. Ending the A
2. Telling the complete truth to the detail you want to know ( this could take several weeks as she might be in some state of denial plus many ICs out there counsel NOT to tell...that is what my wife's IC did.). Find the Jacob's Letter here on this site which you can use as a compelling appeal for the truth. It is what overrode my wife's IC opinion. I do think for some folks and WWs perhaps more than WHs, it is going to take some time for to get a grip on reality, which includes not being able to go back in time and pretend the A did not happen.
3. Have her tell family and friends and coworkers as you choose if you feel that people close to you need to know in order to understand the upcoming turbulence.
4. Counseling
5. She is truly remorseful and backs down from marriage re_write.
6. You are going to work on YOU and then decide if you want this marriage. Forgiveness does not have to include keeping the M.

Tell the BW. I did. Happy to share that story if you want.

FWIW I thought you did well in the confrontation. Its messy business.

Do you want to see if R is possible?

Abbondad posted 9/15/2013 10:53 AM


I am so sorry you are experiencing the hell so many of us went through. Note I say "went." It is finite.

Like so many of us, I was where you were, only months ago. From D-day to (in my case) filing for divorce from the woman I though was the love of my life, my soulmate, it took ten months.

This caught my eye:

I am too weak to handle this.

I was so utterly convinced that this was true of myself. I think I might have posted these very same words on SI, in fact. I was so sure.

But I wasn't. And I am not. Nor are you, regardless of how you feel right now. You are in the depths of your pain and you cannot see above it or ahead of it. You are in a certain place, but you can't see that it is a path--a linear path--because your perspective is clouded by your confusion and despair.

The only way out is through, and the only way through is by action. Firm decisive action, even if it is utterly counterintuitive to your nature. Act. Don't stay in this limbo or it will devour your soul.

You are loving and sensitive. This is why you are in pain. But you are strong. Act, and the emotions will catch up. It will likely take a while, but it will. It will.

All the best.

heartache101 posted 9/15/2013 11:05 AM

Tell the other BS.
She may find out more on them!
Send her your proof so far.

A marriage can survive infidelity.
You have to know what you will tolerate. Your line in the sand.
Like is she allowed to continue to work with other man?
Can she quit that job, will she?

I think you did good so far.
Stay strong.

keptmyword posted 9/15/2013 11:08 AM

I started off by telling her that the last four months of my life have been hell and I admitted to the many mistakes I have made in our marriage. As many people posted, the marriage takes two. I owned up to everything I have done wrong with the marriage and the kids

I understand you wanting to own up to mistakes in your marriage. Everyone should do so.

Problem here is: Her adultery/infidelity had NOTHING to do with the marriage or with you. Period.

Adultery is a PERSONAL problem. It is not a MARITAL problem. Although obviously, the betrayal can outright end marriages or cause severe damage

Bad marriages cause separation and divorce but they don't "force" a spouse into having sex with other people. The notion of a "bad" marriage causing adultery is simply absurd. But, people with poor esteem, self-worth/validation issues, and weak values will USE any marital issues as what they want to perceive as a great excuse to act on their personal problems. In fact, the majority of adultery happens in marriages that are considered good.

It is important you know this. Knowing this will help in detaching and doing what you need to do to help yourself through the betrayal.

As stronger08 and others have stated, the persistence of the denials is amazing. I had the very letter my XWW wrote to her affair guy stating outright that they had sex when I confronted her and she denied that anything at all was going on and kept on denying. She simply did not want to deal with the reality.

Be prepared though - for when she cannot deny any longer, when she is forced into dealing with the unpleasant reality about herself that she has been running away from, she will either break down and come to the "what have I done?" state or very likely become very nasty and blame you and the marriage for everything. She will rewrite your marital history to suit her blaming and excuses. You will be the target of her anger because you are the one who popped and exposed her bullshit fantasy bubble. She may become someone and something you have never known before.

Stay strong. Always know you have maintained your integrity and your vows through your marriage during the good and the bad.

My XWW didn't come around until I filed for divorce. She immediately wanted to reconcile but I know I'll never trust this woman again so I divorced her.

Either way, know that you will be just fine in the end.

kannan posted 9/15/2013 11:22 AM

A hard 180 will do wonders.

She is in damage control and trying to rug sweep with out coming clean.

Dont allow her to manipulate you with her lies.

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