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shocked and stunned

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PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 01:56 AM

I know it's so late, I hope someone is out there...
We have been working on R for over a year, ups and downs, but I would say overall moving forward. In MC and I feel WH is genuine about being sorry. He is moving slowly in his process but I would say moving forward. He fights feelings of shame and guilt. In addition to MC we have a very helpful religious leader who we regularly see.
WH has survived cancer this year and just recently was able to return to work. It is in the states with a lot of traveling which we both agree isn't working, so he is franticly looking for jobs close to home.
I have hated going through this mess, but I am glad I gave it some time before making D decision. I actually have been feeling so much better lately, stronger, confident, hopeful about the future. It's been hell but I survived it and have learned a lot. Mostly things I never wanted to know, but I also feel I have grown personally believe it or not. I finally have been feeling a little bit more like myself again.
Then....out of no where comes the unbelievable. Today we get into an argument about finances and I was upset, I said something like, "that's it I am done". A couple hours later I come home and WH is leaving to take DS to sports practice. I come in the house and see a folded sticky note on the floor by the trash. I pick it up and notice a bunch of phone numbers, with names, prices, measurements.....all with area codes of the city he is supposed to travel to next week. I immediately know of course what it is and call him. He admits what it is and I meet him at a park to talk, shaking and crying. He is very sorry, not saying much, ashamed. Says after the argument he thought it was over and went back to his old life. But then, he says he knows that is wrong and he throws the note away, which I then found.
The MC has tried to talk to him about SA but he didn't seem to really connect to that, of course that's what I think is going on. He is agreeing now that he needs help and can't do this by himself. He is saying he will do whatever, blah blah blah. I think he needs some type of inpatient help.
I am just shocked and stunned. I am sitting here thinking what in the hell just happened?????

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 02:06 AM

Hi there PJL, it is early evening in the southern hemisphere here, and as I am a MH, hope you don't mind me commenting.

I don't blame you for feeling stunned. In a strange way it reminded me of my BH as when he feels rejected and hurt he projects that onto other things such as deleting pictures of me off his phone (just one example). And although not nearly as damaging as what you describe, it feels to me like it comes from the same place. That is, an inability to deal with stress/hurt/anger like a grown up. Which is obviously something you have experienced already with his infidelity.

What your WH did must make you feel so unsafe, which is what you are. Is he going to do this every time you get angry/stressed? His coping mechanisms are obviously still crappy and have the potential to cause further harm, to you and to himself.

At some point, he has to stop running and face himself and his distress as an adult does.

Do you feel like now it has all been false R?

Feel really bad for you. Must be so painful and quite a shock.

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 2:07 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 02:14 AM

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree he has crappy coping mechanisms. Oddly, I don't feel it was completely false R. I do feel like this was the first time he looked up "them", I am tired of typing the actual word. Of course, he has been home with cancer for 8 months too. I feel that he doesn't like to ask for help, he needs to humble himself and reach out! We both have resources and support.
I do believe what is "false" is the lies he tells himself. We go over them and he agrees they are ridiculous and now.....
Thank you for validating my feelings of being unsafe. That's exactly it. I don't think we are back at square one, but pretty close. Maybe I shouldn't have posted in this forum, I don't even know if I can consider R anymore

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 02:41 AM

Gently - False R doesn't have to be about being unfaithful again or breaking NC, it can also be around not really looking hard at ourselves as to why we did what we do and what is going on for us that we trashed ourselves and betrayed our spouse. Although, with your husband dealing with cancer during this time, would have put much of this introspection on the back burner I would imagine. Both of you must have been very caught up in all of that I'm sure.

I keep thinking of you picking up that postit note and the dawning realisation of what it was. I really feel for you. It seems like there is much more work to be done, and that perhaps he will really be going back to square one as to figure out what's going on for him. I hope he has the courage to do this. For both of your sakes.

edited out mistakes

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 2:42 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 02:46 AM

Just another thought too. Your comment about "that's it I'm done" is something you may need to examine. This is the sort of kneejerk reaction I myself have whenu I feel resentment and the inability to communicate my feelings/disappointment or hurt.

And I'm not saying either that his response was justified by this, but rather it seems that both of you have lots of stuff going on, and not surprisingly, lots of anger there.

As everyone on here says, take what you need and leave the rest.

PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 02:54 AM

Yes, I hear you about the false R. I have never really felt confident that he was in it 100% and put in the effort that he could have. We sure do have lots of work ahead if we both are still in, not sure yet.
I do hear you on my comment as well. I think it was more of done with the particular topic? I actually don't have much anger anymore. However, I am sure I could have been more clear.
I should mention, when I realized what the note was and called him, I said, "I found your shopping list.... really??? the measurements???"
It was just so absurd to me, surreal, you know?
Thanks for staying with me tonight, I really appreciate your support, I feel so alone

sinsof thefather posted 9/19/2013 03:09 AM


I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you finding that note. But I am glad that you found it because at least now you know. I think this statement from your husband

He is agreeing now that he needs help and can't do this by himself.

is probably the beginnings of real truth and honesty from him. I hope he backs those words up with actions. Please take care of yourself, and take your time to work out what you want to do. In the mean time keep coming here for support.

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 03:44 AM

Yes, as Sins said, backing up this statement with real actions, rather than it being a frightened response because he's " in trouble" again, needs to happen. That is if you want to R yourself. I bet you have lots going through your mind right now.

It does sound like a shopping list and it makes me think how detached that it is to reduce women down to their size like that. But then, you yourself have no doubt felt on the end of this detachment perhaps? As if their were a film between you and your husband? It sounds like intimacy is very difficult for him. What are your thoughts at the moment? Besides reeling from it all.

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 03:58 AM

Actually, I've been too polite so far. I'm starting to feel quite angry at how weak your husband is. So the first thing he does after a year of trauma for both of you, infidelity and cancer, is to respond to your anger and frustration by looking up women to visit with on his trip with their measurements? It pretty much means he has done absolutely NOTHING to address his betrayal in this past year. Because to do this, can only mean that. I'm not familiar with your story as haven't looked at your profile yet, but he would be incredibly lucky if you decided to stay and work on your marriage. You have every reason not to. And with these recent actions of his, I'm wondering if he actually wants to either.

What's the saying around here "when someone shows you who they are, believe them". This does not show you that he wants this relationship. And if he does, then he better start acting like it.

Rant over.

ophelia24 posted 9/19/2013 04:03 AM

Just looked at your profile. Did you set boundaries in R of what would be a dealbreaker for you? And if so, was this one of them?

Sorry to be stalkerish. You have probably collapsed with exhaustion.

PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 08:22 AM

Yes, I did fall asleep, didn't think that was possible, but glad.
You do not have to be polite with me, I appreciate your frankness! I am waking up still shocked. Deal breaker/game changer not sure which. I agree I would have to watch his actions and that's the thing, do I really want to keep hanging around waiting for him to "get it" and put in the effort? I have been envisioning going on without him lately, before this and it's not bad at all! I dread all the work ahead of me, but I have been telling him that he has to make more of an effort.....well, he made an effort all right didn't he?
It's been strange to me that in the beginning, I "found" the evidence of cheating while not looking for it. It was like it was just given to me. Now, the evidence is just laying on the floor in front of me? I think it is showing "who he is". I too am very disappointed that the first sign of trouble what does he turn to?
He is risking so much, it's shocking. I am also beyond upset that he would even consider prostitution because we have talked endlessly about how degrading it is, destructive for all involved (prostitutes included). I have really strong feelings about it and he sounded like he did too? Guess not. They are the ages of our daughters. We have an amazing family and to risk losing them even is just shocking in itself.
He for sure has all the tools and resources he would need to deal with this. It's so hard to understand a person not using what is right in front of them to save themselves and their marriage. Just this week, I read him
the Life Boat article, he asked me to print if off for him which I did. Why in the world he decided to put a big hole in our little shaky raft of a life boat I will never know!
Your support means so much to me, thank you thank you for hanging in here with me, even while I was sleeping!

Kelany posted 9/19/2013 08:44 AM

I keep reading this not knowing what to say. I'm so hurt for you. I can't imagine how you're feeling right now. My husband (SA) recently had his first porn slip during a time of stress last month and I was so hurt. But this????? Just wow.

His first thought is to go back to acting out with prostitutes. He has coping skills, but is choosing not to use them. He choose not to talk to you, to utilize other methods. That's disturbing. And the desire for sex with unknown women, paying them, exemplifing the exploitation of them, endangering your health.

He just basically sunk your life boat and your surrounded by sharks.

PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 08:53 AM

Exactly what I am thinking, sunk the boat, but somehow I have miraculously grabbed one of those round little life savers and am floating alone now? That really was a great article and analogy for me.
I am just laying here thinking....what now???? I know all the answers, focus on myself, stay strong, it's not personal, see what his actions are..yeah, yeah, yeah OR fire up the pink jeep and get the hell out of here??? Probably all of the above.
Ok, I am going to share something that might sound inappropriate and please don't take it literally. I was in a support group years ago as a facilitator and a woman told us she waited for her H to go to sleep and then took a frying pan right up the side of his head. The rest of us could not keep straight faces, I am completely against violence, but in my mind I just see this frying pan....figuratively of course

forgivingnow posted 9/19/2013 08:59 AM

"He is agreeing now that he needs help and can't do this by himself."

What sinsofthefather said "is probably the beginnings of real truth and honesty from him. I hope he backs those words up with actions."

I hope he backs up those words with positive action too.

tushnurse posted 9/19/2013 09:25 AM

PM sent

hopefullromantic posted 9/19/2013 09:37 AM

I come in the house and see a folded sticky note on the floor by the trash. I pick it up and notice a bunch of phone numbers, with names, prices, measurements.....all with area codes of the city he is supposed to travel to next week. I immediately know of course what it is and call him. He admits what it is and I meet him at a park to talk, shaking and crying. He is very sorry, not saying much, ashamed. Says after the argument he thought it was over and went back to his old life. But then, he says he knows that is wrong and he throws the note away, which I then found.

You find the note on the floor, by the trash? Sounds like a manipulation to me.

1Faith posted 9/19/2013 09:51 AM

Oh Pink

I am so sorry for you. I believe it was divine intervention that you found that post it note.

I am glad that he is finally aware that he needs help.

Arguments will happen so please work with your IC and MC to address how to handle them in the future.

Good luck. We are pulling for you.

Hugs and prayers.

sisoon posted 9/19/2013 10:02 AM

I have a different view of what might have happened. I don't think this is necessarily kills R. If it's the end for you, that's fine, but if you still want to R, I think there's still hope.

Your H was probably traumatized by D-Day, too. He was probably traumatized by the cancer and its treatment. And he may have been traumatized by your 'That's it. I'm done.'

If he fell into or close to despair when you left, he might very well have started to seek solace in his old way of numbing pain. Since he discarded the list of numbers, I'm not sure he was committed to following through with meeting one of the whores. Is it possible that he started on the old path and then pulled himself back?

I think your R is a very difficult one, because of the added stresses of his cancer and his job. The cancer could easily have turned his focus away from doing necessary work on himself during the last year - the work needed to change his coping mechanism from seeking solace with web-based whores to relying on your relationship when he's under stress.

If your H uses this as a wake-up call, he'll follow through by seeking help, and if he does that, he's a candidate for R.

R is a step-by-step process. Setbacks are almost a guaranteed feature, and this could be a setback rather than an end.

Gently, 'I'm done' is a very powerful threat. If you were really done, it wouldn't matter to you what he does now, so I assume 'I'm furious now' or 'I'm so frustrated now' is a lot closer to what you meant.

Not saying what you mean is a real R-killer.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:04 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

forgivingnow posted 9/19/2013 10:53 AM

I agree that if he uses this as a wake up call and chooses to get help you could R. I also found "a sticky note" in July and the words I immediately said were "I might be done.". But , yes, what I meant was I was furious and scared and horrified. I will put those words in my head. It was a wake up call for my husband and he is in IC and owning his behavior and not blaming me or the marriage.
This is what I hope for you PinkJeepLady. Take care.

PinkJeepLady posted 9/19/2013 12:00 PM

I love you guys! Can't thank you enough for being here when I needed you the most. Your insights and thoughts help so much.
We just had a very frank, honest talk and hopefully that will move us forward. I do think this may be a turning point for him and me as far as the "I am done" thing. We do have access to really good support and help thank goodness. Now it's time for action.
I think this is a "set back" and it helps me a lot to hear others help me sort this out. That's what is hard, all these emotions swirling around and I am confused. The "list" seemed to me like flat out cheating in itself at first, but I do feel he is sincere in saying he knew it was wrong and wasn't going to follow through.
Faith, my very first thought was it was by divine nature I "happened" upon it. We have several trash cans, why the one by the door. WH readily agrees as well as we have had several incidences of what we feel is divine intervention if you will.
We are a family that has survived many difficult things, as I am sure many other have. This past year we also moved, were in 2 separate car wrecks, had to testify in court on one, I started a new job which involves a big project, and also dealing with issues with children and aging parents. Sometimes it's just so much! And now this ridiculousness!!!
Anyway, I feel like you beautiful people are holding me up right now, my sincere thanks for taking time for me!

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