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A recent post explains that false R does not necessarily mean breaking of NC.

Are there signs to look for?

How do we know that WS are not "doing the work" if they think and say that they are? This process, I understand, can take years, but I would like to see solid evidence that m WH is sincerely looking for answers to explain his betrayal. I need more than just "I think about us all the time".

Any suggestions?

If WS is constantly thinking "About this" and isn't making any head way then after a while I think that it is fair to push for him to see an counselor to help him delve deeper to find the connection.

Well, he is seeing a counsellor, although no more than once a month.

And maybe we are making more headway than I recognize.

He has changed very much, in a great way, since the A years. He is very kind and attentive. He is present. He shares his non-A thoughts with me.

Occasionally, in response to notes that I send him, he sends emails which are thoughtful and loving.

He calls during the day, and sounds so warm and relaxed. He says how relieved he is now that the A is over and that he is happy that we are together and is very positive about our future together.

At home in the evenings though, he is tired and there is not much time to connect. the sadness comes over me often, but he doesn't want to address it. He says that everything will be alright but does little to comfort me.

Maybe this sounds like it is all about MY needs, but I fear that so much is being rugs wept.

Even in counselling, where he examines how he is able to compartmentalize, he doesn't seem to recognize that he needs to examine why he made the choice to do so, how he was able to risk our family, our marriage and the futures of our children.

Yes, I do tell him these things, often in writing, but they remain unaddressed.

He shows regret, but I don't know what remorse looks like.

FightingBack, remorse is when he is doing everything in his power to help you to heal. It's a determination in him to find out what allowed him to betray you and for him to do the necessary work internally to make sure that he would never choose that path again.

It would include giving you everything you have asked for. A written in depth timeline, answering all questions, offering observations of his own about the A and about his behaviour during it, and removing all traces of OW from his worklife.

Has he done any of those things? If not, then he has regret, but he is still rugsweeping. Can I ask you if he has taken OW from the company answering machine yet?

Sins, his personal voicemail recording (her voice) was changed two weeks ago, because I told him not to come home that day unless it was done.

This was fairly simple on his part to change.

The main reception voice recording remains hers. There are staff members who are bilingual, have nicer voices (my opinion) and are quite capable of re-recording it.

I could nag him every day to do it, but I don't want to.

Last night I was very sad. I had been away for the weekend with friends and upon my return, our reunion was not as I had pictured it.

I told him that I had hoped for an embrace and kiss with feeling. I got a quick kiss , although a happy relaxed H. He later told me that he had missed me, but without much emotion.

Last night I told him that I couldn't stop thinking about how he greeted the OW on those occasions when he would drive a couple of hours to rendezvous at a resort.

I asked him if he held her and kissed her when he walked in the door. He said "not immediately".

The hugs and kisses are the hardest thing to get over. He said it was all just sex. Hugs are not sex in my opinion, but affection.

When I told him that, he walked away from me, left me crying, and never brought it up since.

I ACHE EVERY DAY.

I think I know how to SURVIVE infidelity, but I just can't seem to LIVE with it.

When I told him that, he walked away from me, left me crying, and never brought it up since.

FighthingBack, that's just cruel. He doesn't get it and he hasn't got remorse either in my opinion.

I don't know how, after 19 months of trying you are ever going to reach him. It's taken him that long to remove her as his personal answer - phone message and that only happened after you threatened him not to come home if he didn't do it. It seems to me that short of those types of threats he's going to wait you out, or react how he did in the example above, until you learn it's easier to just stop mentioning it.

My heart bleeds for you FightingBack, and it makes me very sad to say that in my opinion, it seems you're going to have to decide what you can live with. If you are prepared to rugsweep the affair or not.

(((((Hugs)))))

Thank you for your thoughts and hugs.

He has joined SI but has never posted and rarely reads. I so wish he would read the Wayward forum. Those folks will set him straight, and fast.

Fightingback, it hurts just reading your words. I can feel your pain. I'm so so sorry. It must feel like your living in a fake happy marriage. Just going through the motions, yet you don't see his sincerity.

A hug is just arms around you, until you can feel the love behind it.

I agree that it doesn't sound like he's remorseful. Have you talked to him about this?

[This message edited by TrulySad at 6:17 AM, September 20th (Friday)]

Are you sure it's over? The A? Maybe try a VAR

Rugsweeping is a good example. There may be NC so they think they are being good, but they arent doing anything to get to the why's of their actions. This is why people say rugsweeping will likely get you another D day bc the WS does not fix their thinking or issues about the actions.

“Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habit. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.” - Lao Tsu

If he never gets past the thoughts and words part to take action, then his character will never change.

Yes, there are signs to look for.

One of my experiences with false Rec. was the drastic changes in X's behavior. He went from a stone faced, closed mouthed person to a moody, argumentative, defensive son of a gun.

When I cried or showed emotion, he would leave, also, and sometimes just drive away without looking back.

Another sign was when he would put physical distance between us-like not sit near me, not hold my hand, complain about having to eat dinner with his family and so on, which were all parts of our live prior to the A.

He would also hide his electronics or leave the room when texting, spending gobs of time in the bathroom and be mad if I asked if he was feeling ok.

There are many, many signs.

I hope you can figure out what you need.

Let's look at the positive. He has made some strides here. A lot of his actions do match his words. But, you are spot on that this isn't full R...

remorse is when he is doing everything in his power to help you to heal.

Yes, but...the biggest signs of real R (having been in Fale R with NC) have been him doing everything to help himself heal. Because I think that is harder and the changes more lasting. This is what I would want from your WH, FightingBack. It seems he does comfort you, at least sometimes, and reaches out with nice notes, and lots of contact. He's falling short, for sure, but there is a foundation there? With such a foundation, I assume he's willing to help you heal even if he doesn't get it right all the time. What it seems to me is that he isn't willing to do the hard work to help himself heal, as evidenced by how he's approached MC and so on.

That's where my focus would be. Is he taking care to change and grow with full effort or not?