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Sorry this is long.

Awhile back my husband started jogging with an old coworker and I had no problem with it. Then I noticed little changes here and there with his appearance, clothing, wouldn't let me see his phone etc and I got sort of suspicious.

Then he wouldn't tell me exactly where they jog, he didn't really want me to meet her either. So I finally told him that even if they were coincidences these were a lot of signs of cheating.

That day he came home from work and really turned the tables on me. Telling me how unhappy he has been in our marriage for a long time, that I don't do enough around the house, I've been hard to live with at times.

We've since gone to marriage counseling and I've gone to individual therapy as well but it's only getting worse. He says he loves me and won't leave me and wouldn't cheat but he's changed his phone password and refuses to go to church which is very unlike him. He also wouldn't let me meet her after he agreed to it in therapy and went to a festival with her but told me he didn't want me to come because he "needs space".

This is becoming unbearable. I know all the signs are there and he's probably at least having an emotional affair but he won't admit to it and now it's become MY problem where somethings wrong with ME.

Sorry this post is rushed and excuse any poor grammar, I'm running on very little sleep because I'm crying off and on 24/7. I feel so lost and don't know what to do.

[This message edited by Feelingsolost at 9:03 AM, September 20th (Friday)]

((HUGS))

I think you're right that he's cheating. I'm sorry to say that.

What do you want? You cannot make him confess, but you can pretty much be assured that he's cheating at least emotionally - and even if by some stretch of the imagination he isn't cheating, he's at the very least disrespecting you.

I think the best thing for you to do is to either try to get proof that he's cheating and confront him, or to start detaching from him, working on yourself, and deciding what YOU want/need to do in this situation. You don't have to live with this - you can put an ultimatum to him, or you can just leave/make him leave. You have a choice too - you don't have to let him jerk you around.

Oh, and don't doubt that he's being a total asshole and rewriting your marriage history right now to justify his behavior. Don't let him blame you. He's full of shit right now; let that blameshifting roll off your back.

((HUGS)) sorry you are in this position.

((feelingsolost))

I'm so sorry. His actions are straight out of the waywards handbook!

Do you have the money to hire a PI? Put a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) in his car?
That's what I would do - gather evidence... be smart about this - don't beg, ask, confront YET. But get the evidence, give him an opportunity to confess and then show him the door if he doesn't... It's really hard to do...he'll do all sorts of crazy stuff to gaslight you, blameshift, deny... don't buy it!

There is a lot of information here in the healing library...

I'm SO SORRY you're here...

Trust your gut and protect yourself.

I am so sorry. I am new to this too. Trust yourself!

Ugh! Yep, plenty of red flags there. (((Feelingsolost)))

Welcome to SI. The best club you don't want to belong to.

What does your MC say about this "friendship"? Can you afford a PI? You will get your "proof" if you need it that way.

He also wouldn't let me meet her after he agreed to it in therapy and went to a festival with her but told me he didn't want me to come because he "needs space".

This was a fucking date.

I would assume he is having an affair, as you say, at least emotional. I would tell your husband that he has some choices to make. He will end this "friendship" with her, give up his password and give his phone to you immediately (so he can't clean it up) or he can have all the space he wants as he can move out asap as you will not put up with his dating any longer.

Now, you have to be ready for him to walk out the door if you give this ultimatum and he doesn't comply. You can do this confrontation in MC if you like. In MC I would also ask your husband how he would feel if you suddenly had a male friend that you were spending so much time with, wouldn't introduce him to your friend, kept your phone on lock down and wouldn't let him see the messages from your male friend and went on a date to a festival with this male friend?

Others will come along and have some advice. This is what I feel I would do if I were in this situation.

Is this old coworker married? I wonder what her husband thinks about this friendship.

Sounds a lot like my H during his EA. He wanted his space, wanted his "friends" and I didn't do enough for him. In all honesty we moved away and never dealt with it. He swore he could never ever have a PA and loved me and look where it got me 5 years later. :/. If I had found this site then I would like to think things would have been different.

Hang in there and take he advice of the wonderful people here. It sucks but you can get through it!!!

I'm so sorry, feelingsolost. I agree with the others - too many red flags, & "normal" friendships just don't look like this. I 2nd the plan to put a VAR in his car - I understand Best Buy or Radio Shack sells good, affordable versions of these.

I also suggest you read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. It outlines the progression of this slippery slope; maybe you can get your H to read it as well. I'd say this is an EA for sure, & you need to be prepared for even worse. The only way to cheat is to lie, so you absolutely cannot believe anything he says right now.

Find out if she's married. If so, gently share your concerns & get another pair of eyes working on this. The sneaking around & having secrets are addictive for him, so this needs to get blown up sooner rather than later. Lifting you up & sending you strength & hugs.

Feelingsolost, I am so sorry to read your message. My heart goes out to you. I agree with everyone else--he's cheating for sure.

I didn't beat a confession out of my WH until the third confrontation. He gaslighted me with the "we're just friends" line, but I knew I was right. After the second confrontation, I spent time gathering rock-solid evidence. The third confrontation was not pretty.

I strongly recommend Leigh Richwood's book, What to Do When Your Spouse Cheats. It's full of good advice about collecting evidence and confronting.

My strongest recommendation for now is to see a lawyer. Know what your rights are before you confront, and especially before you leave your home (if it comes to that). Most lawyers give initial free consultations.

This is in addition to all the other good advice given above, with which I heartily concur.

FSL--your post gave me little pricklies up and down my spine. I could go into my long and sad story but this isn't about me. I wish I would have found this site when I was at the place you are. Lucky for you--you did.

I would bet my next paycheck your husband is cheating. At this point it is definitely emotional infidelity, if it isn't physical yet, it will be soon.

I would stop accusing and pretend you believe everything he is telling you. Let him keep his "jogging" appointments with this person and pretend you're ok with it.

Then I'd beg, borrow or steal the money to hire a PI. It probably won't take him/her long to get the evidence you need. I'd make an appointment with every good divorce attorney and choose the one who you feel will do the best job for you. The reason you contact the others is so that they won't be able to represent your ex. Many will talk to you for free or for very little for the first time--take advantage of that. I would make copies of all important marital/family documents and keep them in a safe place with a trusted friend or in a safe deposit box. I would get a list of all of your assets and debts and make sure you know where all of your $$ is. I would get his name off of anything that is solely yours-(if you can--a lawyer can tell you what is legal to do--that's why you need to get in touch with one asap) I would also set up a bank account in only your name--even if it only has $100 in it and I would also apply for at least one credit card in your own name. Get copies of all of your joint credit card statements for the last year or for however long you suspect he has been "jogging."

No more crying or being down around him. Give him the impression that all is AOK. Get into therapy because you're going to need all the support you can get.

Then--when you have all your ducks in a row, when you have your evidence--sit him down and let him have it. Be calm and cool and in control. If you want to reconcile and you find that he does--get him to sign an agreement that sets out the conditions if he cheats again. Of course that agreement states that you get everything if that happens. If he balks at signing it--then you know he's not serious. If he intends to be faithful from that point on--he has nothing to fear.

There are many successfully reconciled couples here who tell you that their marriages have weathered the infidelity storm and are stronger because of it. If you want that and he does, and he will cooperate-great.

But--there are many of us here who also heard pleas of reconciliation from our wayward spouses which were nothing but more lies. Or--if not lies--they were just more promises that they couldn't keep. Hope for the best but ALWAYS plan for the worst. Protect yourself and know that you can live through this and keep your sanity, your integrity and your sense of self-worth. Don't let him take that away from you.

This is already long and I could say a LOT more because I was sitting exactly where you are. I didn't find SI until 2 months after I was divorced and then it was too late for me. Shoulda, woulda, coulda--don't let it happen to you.

Good Luck and PM me if you want. There is so much wonderful support here--I hope you are able to take advantage of the immense wisdom available from SI members--the biggest club of which NO ONE wants to be a member.

What meaniemouse said.

To this I would add-
Kill him with kindness.

And avail yourself of every stealth method of info gathering you can get your hands on.

This all reminds me of the things my WH said to me,Oh about four years ago. D-day was May 4th a year ago.

I didn't keep the house clean enough, he was disappointed in me and the kids, I can't spend time with them together (she's too busy) but they found time to golf in the middle of flippen afternoon, and there is something wrong with ME, not them. It's the same playbook.

I get so furious with these posts. You know why? Because I HATE seeing innocent people get dragged through the emotional cleaners.

At the same time I want to scream out:

STAND UP FOR YOURSELF! FIND YOUR SELF-CONFIDENCE AND DON'T ALLOW ANOTHER PERSON (SUCH AS YOUR HUSBAND) TO PISS ON YOUR LEG!

Feeling - I'm sorry you are in this position. But...

Put an end to it. You're his wife not some chick he met in a bar o Saturday night. It's time for you to get angry and put your foot down. The conversation goes like this:

"In the next 30 seconds you hand me your phone, unlocked. If not, pack your bags and get out.

And here are the rules..."

Then list them out. No contact. At all. Ever. No secret passcodes. Complete transparency.

Then you can end with, "Okay, Mr. Festival Date Night, are you in or are you out?"

No negotiation. Then be ready to show him the door.

Be ready for him to leave by understanding that, if he leaves, he was gone anyway.

If you continue to allow him to "think about it" or have it both ways then you get months (if not years) of getting dumped on.

It's not just you, Feeling. It's all of us betrayed spouses. We need to have the confidence to demand an end to the crappy behavior. To have the self-respect to NOT be treated this way. To let a spouse, still in affair, know that you will not tolerate a third wheel in the marriage.

It's not you. It's him. Be strong and tell him to get his shit together or get out.

Please. Be strong - for yourself and for your family.

BTW - I don't care if it's an affair or not. It doesn't matter.

It makes you uncomfortable and you are his wife. Your husband should NOT be making you feel that way. Period.

Don't allow him to do that to you. If you were doing something that made him upset (certainly to think that you might be having an affair) wouldn't you stop? Would you do that to him? Of course not!

Affair or not - he stops doing things that upset you. That's what people do when they love each other.

So glad you made your way here from The Other Place (the one we don't talk about). Listen to these people, but use the advice you feel ready for. Though sometimes it's worth thinking through the posts that you don't feel comfortable with. Please do read on here - some wild, horrible stories, some stories that sound just like your situation. And you can be sure of loving, supportive responses here. And we hug!

So sorry you're here. The important thing to remember is that it's him, not you. None of us is a perfect spouse, but imperfection does not warrant or justify cheating. And cheaters have to lie to themselves and to you to justify what they've done, so their view of the marriage is slanted. You really can't believe what they say - there are a lot of threads here detailing the fucked-up, ridiculous shit cheaters come up with. Hence the terms gas lighting and blame-shifting.

((((hugs!)))))

My heart loves what LifeIsCrazy said, but my head loves what MeanieMouse said.

Like another poster said, telling you all of a sudden that he hasn't been happy in the marriage for a long time is a huge red flag. If he is cheating, or thinking about it, that would be where he would start. Starting to justify it by telling you how you are disappointing him and always have been.

Always trust your gut. It's there for a reason. I hope you're wrong but I'm afraid you're not.

Doing exactly what Life & Meanie said, is what saved my marriage.
That and a new bank account that he funded when I confronted.
Do it today! And do not let him make you think you are nuts. If he lies, and he will, warn him once, then kick him to the curb, and let him think for a few days.
No contact with him. I also gave mine the name of a therapist, who made him confess to the affair, and come clean to me if he had any hope of saving his marriage. Do not waste one minute. And hold strong.

[This message edited by fourever at 2:17 PM, September 20th (Friday)]

Thank you everyone for the kind words and advice, I had to take a day off to get away from thinking about this so I haven't replied until now.

I don't have the money to hire a PI right now because the ones I'm finding are very expensive.

I'm working on ME right now and will probably hold off on some things until we're in MC. I think confronting him there will go better.