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Newest Member: Helpless211 (45755)

User Topic: Just devastated (tmi alert)
StillStanding1
♀ 40144
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, September 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've tried so hard. I've been trying to forgive, working on improving myself, feeling better, trying to improve our M, going to MC/IC, reading books....

I know you will all say "don't blame yourself", but our sex life (pre-A and during) had gotten really lame and I often rejected his advances. Not fair to him. I also had an unknown medical condition that caused sex to be painful for many years. Didn't help add to any enjoyment or willingness on my part and gave much frustration on his part.

He didn't want to break up our family and made a very bad choice to seek fulfillment elsewhere. He admits this and admits he is broken. For months, we've been working on our M - Retrouvaille, MC/IC, reading, being kind to each other. We've been speaking each other's "love languages". I went to the doc and found that a topical steroid vastly improved my pain issues. We've been having sex a lot and I was working to keep the mind movies at bay and just enjoy the physical sensations. I tried to spice things up with lingerie, toys, whatever...

Although he was doing a lot right in terms of R (communication, accountability, spending time with us, demonstrating love), every now and then he would pull away emotionally or physically and I knew something just wasn't right.

Well, today he was going to IC after work. I emailed him some thoughts that he really needed to dig deep for the "why" that allowed him to justify his poor decisions. He has said many times that he doesn't blame me. Yet, as I was trying to be open and honest with him (an issue I am working on), he responded with his own honesty...

Here comes the hurt...

He has learned that he really prefers "wild, crazy, pounding, screaming, hang from the ceiling, monkey sex" and that is not what he senses that I enjoy. And he's right. His definition of fun sex is not the same as mine. I thought the sex we were having was fun, adventurous, and fulfilling. But no, I'm not a porn star in the bedroom. And yes, I am quiet when there are kids awake and potentially listening...

So, basically, he says he really loves me and our life together and wants us to work, but he's scared that if he doesn't get that kind of sex, he will be driven to stray again. He says he never wants to hurt me again by betraying me again. He really is remorseful over the pain he has caused me and our family.

He got very mad when I used the word "selfish". While he said he was selfish for having the A, he feels he was selfless for years, being denied the sexual fulfillment he needed, for the sake of holding our family together. He was a good father and a good provider. He was kind and loving to me (obviously outside of the A!), but we had 20 good years together.

He was my best friend and I still love him. But I guess I am just at the point of realizing that no matter what I've tried to fix that was broken in our M, it's just not enough.

Is it time to just let go?


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
Aubrie
♀ 33886
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, September 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he feels he was selfless for years, being denied the sexual fulfillment he needed, for the sake of holding our family together.

Oh riiiight. So he had this sexual preference epiphany after his affair. How convenient.

he's scared that if he doesn't get that kind of sex, he will be driven to stray again.

He's very generously warning you that if you can't find your inner Jenna Jameson, then he can't and wont be held accountable for "acting out".

Its easy for him to blame you for his problems so he doesn't have to look internally and deal with it.

He is indeed selfish. If he's not happy, he should leave. Not threaten to cheat again.

(((StillStanding)))


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6437 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
StillStanding1
♀ 40144
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, September 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Aubrie. That's exactly what I've been thinking and honestly, knew I would hear here. I've read enough to know this.

It's just so hard to give up... I think giving up is harder than trying to reconcile (and that's hard!)

How do you find the strength to walk away?

I am just devastated by this latest "revelation". Feel like I've wasted an additional 7 months of my life. My kids can sense that a major shift has occurred and are upset and on edge. I don't know how to reassure them anymore. I've kept up my mask for months. I can't do it forever.

I am just so very, very sad. It's hard to let go of hope for a better future. I really gave it all I had.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, September 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he really loves me and our life together and wants us to work, but he's scared that if he doesn't get that kind of sex, he will be driven to stray again

*sigh*
IMHO, I would tell the guy that you cannot guarantee that you will be able to have that kind of wild monkey-sex with him for the rest of eternity so it's time to split your shit up because you refuse to live with that sword hanging over your head. What he has said to you is beyond cruel....that if you aren't going to be the screaming monkey, then he just *might* stray again.

Can I assume that you guys had sex before you were married and he was a witness to your not-super-demonstrative behaviors during sex? Or even if your initial sex stuff was okay with him.....is it really realistic to expect that after 20 years of having sex with the same guy that you are going to still be swinging from chandeliers? I know that there were times during sex with my 20 yr WH that I was like....really? THAT move (that I don't like and have SAID that I don't like) again????

Sex is only ONE aspect of a relationship. If your WH cannot show respect for all of the other aspects of the relationship.....such as your long-time together and history that you share.....then perhaps a temporary 'sayonara' is not such a bad idea.....especially since he has just pretty much told you that if you aren't willing to be *all that*, that he will look elsewhere.... <--That doesn't sound like much of a commitment to me.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8188 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
wontdefineme
♀ 31421
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sex he wants is porn sex. I had crazy sex with my ex, didn't stop him having an affair. Just because he is single will not guarantee more sex, crazy sex, or any sex at all. Statistically, don't married people have more sex?

At least you know where your life is heading and you have the truth from him.

Being single won't be all its cracked up to be for him. My ex mil told me my ex doesn't like the single life. I guess he doesn't get the daily sex he needed and demanded when he was married. Too bad, so sad.

We were at a hotel one time and overheard some loud sex next door. I called it date sex where all that moaning loud was for the sake of impressing the guy, he had a look on his face like he had been lied too. Sure hotel and single sex is different from there are kids in the house sex. Tell him to grow the hell up.


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Mar 2011
PeaceLove187
♀ 33559
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a selfish bastar....oops, it's the wrong forum to be bashing the spouse. So he decided he wants monkey sex and can't guarantee he'll keep it in his pants if he doesn't get it. Well, Buddy, I want a young Mel Gibson looking at me over my morning coffee but it looks like that's never going to happen. We don't get everything we want in life and if monkey sex is more important to him than his family and his self-respect, then so be it. He certainly has the right to make that choice, but he does not have the right to threaten you and blame his future acting out on your preference for the kind of sex that safeguards your self respect.

Loving spouses compromise. Loving spouses willingly choose the intimacy of truly loving sex over the monkey sex of an illicit affair. Loving spouses don't threaten to seek fulfillment elsewhere.

On the other hand, if he is telling you that his sexual compulsions are so strong that he doesn't know if he can keep himself from acting out sexually, then he needs to see an SA specialist.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
StillStanding1
♀ 40144
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, all of you! I didn't think it was possible that I could laugh tonight, but you got me there. I guess when it gets this ridiculous, you have to laugh, right?

Can I assume that you guys had sex before you were married and he was a witness to your not-super-demonstrative behaviors during sex? Or even if your initial sex stuff was okay with him.....is it really realistic to expect that after 20 years of having sex with the same guy that you are going to still be swinging from chandeliers?

Yes, you may "assume" that... We moved in together after a year of dating, got engaged a year later, and married another year later. He had plenty of time to "try before you buy". I totally get that our sex life went downhill and that we didn't address the problems in our M and our sex life. But I admitted that from Dday and have actively been working to "fix" my end... I just can't believe what came out of his mouth today. Just shell-shocked and reeling...

Without calling any names, can I say that today I decided that, "I think I'm okay NOT being a screaming f*@k monkey..."? I may not be Jenna Jameson, but I am committed, loyal, honest, loving, intelligent, kind, fun, and of high moral integrity. He'd be hard pressed to find a better wife and he KNOWS it. That's the truly sad part.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
still-living
♂ 30434
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our situation is similar except I didn't have the affair, my wife did. We often desire those things we've never had, fantasizing that the grass is greener on the other side and is our solution. He probably believes monkey sex is his solution but I'm confident it is not. All the more reason he should be digging deeper.

[This message edited by still-living at 12:57 AM, September 21st (Saturday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 798 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
catlover50
♀ 37154
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 5:07 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the risk of playing devil's advocate I'm going to gently present a bit of a different view.

Although I agree that it is completely unacceptable to use any sort of a threat of straying when presenting ones sexual desires, you were asking for complete honesty. What if you said that you needed candlelight, soft music and massage oil to get turned on and that just wasn't his style--would you expect him to consider your needs?

I agree that he needs to do some more searching inside himself, but would booking a hotel room every few months and really letting loose, role playing, making some noise, etc be so demeaning? We have been having a lot of fun in the last year (no kids at home for us) and last night I was literally hanging from the ceiling. He hasn't insisted, we have just been playing, exploring and enjoying each other. Our sex life was adequate to great before; it's consistently great now. It takes work in a long term relationship, but to say that after 20 years the chandelier swinging is over just doesn't have to be true.

I totally understand your pain; just wanted to provide a different perspective. Perhaps your H is not some sleazy slimeball, but trying to honestly express his sexual desires with you.

Good luck.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Laura28
♀ 28997
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 5:52 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This:

IMHO, I would tell the guy that you cannot guarantee that you will be able to have that kind of wild monkey-sex with him for the rest of eternity so it's time to split your shit up because you refuse to live with that sword hanging over your head.

and this

Well, Buddy, I want a young Mel Gibson looking at me over my morning coffee but it looks like that's never going to happen. We don't get everything we want in life and if monkey sex is more important to him than his family and his self-respect, then so be it.

Couldn't have said it better.

When I read stuff like this I always think of those vows "In sickness and in health" etc.

What if.... you have a serious accident and end up a quadriplegic??? You develop a chronic illness which causes constant pain which precludes anything but vanilla sex? What then?

he feels he was selfless for years, being denied the sexual fulfillment he needed

Did he ever say "If you don't have monkey sex with me I will have an affair"? If not then he has no right to play this card.

So... he had an affair and now says he can't guarantee he won't do it again if you don't perform for him?

This sounds a lot to me like blame-shifting and a rather unpleasant threat.

JMHO

Wishing you peace

Laura



Married 32yrs Me BW 58Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2758 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
HardenMyHeart
♂ 15902
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with catlover50.

Renting some cheap motel room for a couple hours and getting away from the kids can be a blast. Just be honest with each other about what you do and don't feel comfortable with. Don't be afraid to explore new things and roles to find out what does and does not work. Just have fun, and don't make it a big deal if something isn't right.

My wife and I do this once in a while. It works best if she has a couple extra glasses of wine before going to the motel. Not enough wine to get her drunk (I don't like it when she is drunk), but just enough to loosen the inhibitions.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5719 | Registered: Aug 2007
Gr8Lady
♀ 36307
Member # 36307
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Two scenarios come to my mind... Your type of sex is very much like what I indeed like. Perhaps adding a twist to it by blindfold him and sweet agony of tease. Bring him over to your side. Teach him what you like makes it better for him.

Second is my mean girl attitude... Your saying to him wild monkey , hanging from the chandelier sex is awesome IF my man can TURN that on in me. In other words it is HIM that can't create that response. Ok a little mean, but think of this everyday sex is well everyday... The hot stuff is here and there. The answer isn't a new partner but investing in the right one.
Just my freakin 2 cents. Lol
And I have to add. Selfish asshole justification from him.


BS: Me (63yo)
FWH: HIM (65yo) serial infidelities over past 35 years
OW: Many, most recent 1/2 his age
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2012 when I presented evidence, plus LTA with his friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over past year
So done,

Posts: 626 | Registered: Jul 2012
mchercheur
♀ 37735
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((StillStanding1)))
What a painful thing for him to say.

It sounds to me like there is some major blameshifting going on.

So many aspects of your post spoke to me.

First of all, if you really think he was threatening you, after all you have sacrificed , tell him to start packing.
You have given him more than one tremendous gift.

our sex life (pre-A and during) had gotten really lame and I often rejected his advances. Not fair to him.

He could have come to you & talked about it, instead of going outside of the marriage.

Like you, I have also tried really hard to twist myself into a pretzel to try to compete with the sex WH had with OW.
But WH & I are both in our late 50s. He may still be like a teenage boy as far as libido goes, but I work, have 4 kids (3 are still home), & I am tired. OW was 20 yrs younger,divorced, no kids = much more energy. Guys like this don't have a clue.

We can not compete with the excitement of illicit, forbidden sex with a new person. If that is what your WH is "missing", then he has some serious holes in himself & he had better take a look at them.

Perhap this is true for you also:
I would like more emotional intimacy in my marriage---but WH is not capable of meeting that need for me to the extent that I would like. He is trying (MC is helping a little with this), but still falls very short. How would he like it if I said: Well, if you don't do xyz, I will have to go elsewhere.

Maybe emotional intimacy is not an issue for you, but I'm sure you can think of some way that your WH is not meeting your needs to the extent that you would wish.
And yet, you are still being a loyal partner to him.

Sure, the practical suggestions above about hotels, etc., are great. I'm sure there are many more ideas to spice things up & make them more exciting.
A marriage is about trying to meet each other halfway.

But, what I hear in your WH's statement is that monkey sex is more important to him than you are.


Me: BW
Him: WH --Had 7 mo. PA with COW;
Married 20something years with kids
Trying to R

Posts: 1458 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't mean that I thought sex in a long-term M is destined to become boring and vanilla. I think that spicing things up and adding variety in order to keep things *fresh* is a really good idea.

However, the impression that I got is that he wants this monkey sex *every* time (or the majority of the time, anyway). There's nothing wrong with him saying that he really, really prefers monkey sex. That's his truth about what he likes and it's good information for you to have because how can you be expected to know what he likes if he doesn't tell you?

My problem is with where he took the conversation AFTER expressing his preference. He had 2 acceptable options: ask you if you could work with him to add some monkey sex in every once in a while, OR admit that he feels that the 2 of you are sexually incompatible and it's a deal-breaker for him. But he chose an incredibly offensive option by telling you that he *might* stray again. What.The.Hell??? That shouldn't even be on his radar. He's married -- *straying* isn't an option.

I'm not getting a compromising, 'partnership' vibe from him at all. The vibe I'm getting is that he still has a cheating mentality and I don't believe that a truly remorseful spouse would EVER make that type of statement to his/her BS. Ever.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8188 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Silentthoughts
♀ 40289
Member # 40289
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with catlover50. You want complete honesty, could he have been more delicate?....of course. But I wonder if all the years of painful sex has affected you in that department. also maybe you don't feel completely safe with him in a sexual way? these issues could be keeping you from really enjoying sex and letting go of your inhibitions? i could be way off, and this is just my opinion, but it might be something to look at further.


WW - early 50s (me)
BH - late 40s
3 grown children
Married 25 years
Online cyber sex dec 2010. I got caught late dec 2010. Lying and TT until full disclosure jan 2011.
In R we both are committed to staying in this M.

Posts: 76 | Registered: Aug 2013
mchercheur
♀ 37735
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gonnabe2016 nailed it


Me: BW
Him: WH --Had 7 mo. PA with COW;
Married 20something years with kids
Trying to R

Posts: 1458 | Registered: Dec 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ 30024
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He wants crazy monkey sex every time? I have an idea. Do not have sex for six weeks. Tease each other sexually every day, though. Meet up in a hotel for a few hours after 6 weeks of this. Viola! Wild, crazy, monkey sex every time. Now, he will only have sex 8-9 times a year, but we all need to compromise in marriage, don't we?

eta: I personally know someone that this worked for him. We probably all have someone that we are very close to that this worked for them, too.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:07 PM, September 21st (Saturday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
PeaceLove187
♀ 33559
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With all due respect to those who are suggesting a bit more spice in your sex life, the key factor for me in your original post is that your H is saying he can't guarantee the desire for monkey sex won't drive him to stray again. He is saying his commitment to fidelity is contingent on monkey sex.

If I misunderstood and you were only assuming he might stray, then ignore me. But if that's what he said, please address that statement before adding any spice. And please don't force him to make you do anything you are not comfortable with.

My H is disabled and sex is becoming more and more difficult, and at some point sex will probably become impossible. So I guess I should tell him I can't guarantee that I won't stray, right?

Fix his attitude about fidelity before you book a hotel room for monkey sex.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 59
Married 35 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 642 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
mchercheur
♀ 37735
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOW SisterMilkshake you are awesome! Doesn't that say it all


Me: BW
Him: WH --Had 7 mo. PA with COW;
Married 20something years with kids
Trying to R

Posts: 1458 | Registered: Dec 2012
SisterMilkshake
♀ 30024
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, basically, he says he really loves me and our life together and wants us to work, but he's scared that if he doesn't get that kind of sex, he will be driven to stray again.
If you couldn't discern from my sarcastic post that this is what I feel the real issue is. gonnabe, PeaceLove and some others are spot on.

Now, if your WH didn't actually use those words about be "driven to stray" and that is what you are assuming he meant, you need to ask him if that is what he meant.

Telling your partner what your sexual needs and wants are is very important in a marriage. You don't get to tell your partner you may stray if you don't get what you want. That is just wrong.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Topic Posts: 29
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