I hope this will pass soon. I'm in an angry mood today and I want to do and say hurtful things. I'm posting here instead; it's the healthier option.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 10:22 PM, September 21st (Saturday)]
Divorced from (2010) and remarried to (2014) XBH
1 1/2-year-old daughter and another baby girl on the way
sorry you are going through this
So anyway, he said "yes" to the first question and "no" to the second, but then he said, "Sometimes I think you do." So I replied immediately, "YES, I do." I went on to say that it wasn't so bad as to want to break up with him over it, but that I feel it prevents me from fully participating in and enjoying our relationship, and that bothers me. I then said that I feel I need more IC (which I stopped awhile ago) but my hours at work are such now that I don't have time to go back. I said that "someday" (which over the time of our relationship has become kind of a curse word to me, due to some non-A-related issues in our whole relationship both pre- and post-D-day), when we have a kid, I'll have the time to go, but that's kind of a catch-22 because I'd want these issues I'm having solved and done with WAY before even considering having a kid.
He did listen thoughtfully to what I had to say. No resolution though.
Edited because I didn't read my own writing.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 5:47 PM, September 30th (Monday)]
Also, I hate giving up even more of my already very limited free time. I just wish I knew how to work through this shit by myself!
Do you have suggestions as to what's good?
Also, I edited my post above: I meant to say he answered that he was happy we got back together, and did not think there was too much baggage. Whoops.
Edited to add: I have "How Can I Forgive You?" on my Kindle that I need to finish. XH and I together were reading "Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work" out loud, but we got lazy and stopped.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 5:50 PM, September 30th (Monday)]
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Have you prioritized what you think are the biggest issues/issue you want to focus on right now?
I think the biggest one is regaining respect for my XH. Let me explain.
Before we began reconciliation in April of 2012, I had always considered my XH pretty much completely beyond reproach. He was the most honest person I knew, besides my mom. He was full of integrity. He went out of his way to help others. At our union job, where MANY of my coworkers get away with slacking and bending the rules because good ol' union has their back and covers for them, he is by far the hardest worker and Mr. By-the-Book. He was really just a great guy, one of the best you'd ever meet. He wasn't perfect; he's a horrible communicator and very conflict-avoidant, but he has a good heart and is always well-intentioned.
After D-day, respect for him was very high; I do think I idealized him a bit in my mind while I beat myself up (respect for myself was obviously at an all-time low). As I did the work to become healthier, I gained more respect for myself. I made a lot of positive changes in myself that went beyond wayward behavior and relationship issues. I became more financially responsible, I became a better employee at my job, I developed a better relationship with my FOO, I became more disciplined in all aspects of my life including areas such as housework, physical fitness, eating right, etc. I felt as though I was finally becoming the person I should have been all along in all aspects of life.
When we began R'ing and facts of his life post D-day came out, I saw that while I had been building myself up, he had actually been tearing himself down. He made one piss-poor decision after another with his life, all of which culminate in the fact that once I agreed to R, all of this crap now affects me as well. The two main areas of these decisions affect our interaction within our social circle and his finances, which will become OUR finances when we remarry.
WRT the finances: he completely trashed his financial life. He has 3 foreclosures on his record. He makes plenty of money, but he just...inexplicably...stopped paying his f'ing bills. He lives in what he refers to as a "homeless shelter," in reality a pay-by-the-week residential motel, because he can't get an apartment on his credit. He keeps his paychecks on him and cashes them one at a time, because he's afraid of seizure of his bank accounts. He is completely miserable at his job, which, hey, aren't we all---but he's been trying to get his own business off the ground for the entire SEVEN YEARS that I've known him and it just seems to be going nowhere. All of which feeds him into an endless loop of feeling like a loser (pre-D-day), feeling MORE like a loser thanks to me (post-D-day) to fucking up his life (post-D-day) to feeling EVEN MORE like a loser (present day) and it just goes round and round and it makes me want to scream. I've worked on myself, I've picked myself up from NOTHING (I had $1200 to my name after we D'd) to make something of myself....why the hell can't he???? And it sucks because he is so smart...brilliant even. We want certain things for our future as pertains to children, and one of those is that his "dream business" supports our family while I do the bulk of childrearing. But again...SEVEN YEARS of getting NOWHERE. And since D-day, when we were apart for two years, he made it even WORSE. I am frustrated and scared. Talking to him about it, even as gently and supportively as I possible can, only makes him feel worse, and the cycle continues.
WRT the social circle: I am surrounded by hypocrites and I am forced to make nice. I made a post detailing all this awhile ago; it's too painful and time-consuming to rehash at the moment, but basically I don't know how to overcome my intermingled feelings of being rejected and ostracized from my social circle after the A (deserved) while my xBFF who did the same thing to the same guy (my XH) is still welcomed with open arms, and the hypocrisy of the whole thing which makes me want to distance myself from these fake "friends" even more. I have said my piece to them, politely, but it was glossed over and the onus was basically put on me to either deal with it or, oh well. I do OK with it for awhile, and then something comes up (photos from "that time," or an innocent remark from someone about XXXX and XH, or just the shit swirling in my own head coming to the surface) that sets me back, and I go right back to feeling bitter and angry.
I feel as though, with those two problems above, that I am not making any progress in letting them go. I feel as though I am breaking my own boundaries in socializing with those people, number one, and that I am constantly conflicted as to whether or not another go-round at marriage with my XH is the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with anybody else, or being tempted to cheat, or any of that. It has to do with that I made great strides toward getting healthy, and he hasn't.
So those are the top two priorities. Getting those things straight in my head. Not feeling like I want to say something nasty each and every time xBFF's name comes up or some connection to their "relationship" comes up (and believe me, when I say nasty, I mean nasty---nothing about her personally, but along other lines. I can't even post what I want to say because I'm so ashamed of feeling that way). And respecting XH the way I used to despite his destructive behavior of the past couple of years.
Our day-to-day relationship really is very comfortable, despite how this post sounds. That's the sad part. As long as I'm not thinking about this crap, everything is OK and rolling along smoothly. We get along well as long as I don't bring stuff up. He "allowed" me to talk about it briefly back then, to air my feelings, which I admit is nice of him because I suppose technically what he did after we separated should have been none of my business. But once we began reconciling, and once it was clear that he still hung in the same social circle, and (re: the finances) once we knew that his mess would directly affect my future, I feel that it became my business. And after the first couple of months of me really trying to be patient and explain how I felt, he didn't want to hear it anymore, because it was just dragging us down, and keeping us mired in the bullshit, and preventing us from moving forward, and (cue the drama music) "[I'd] never be happy" as long as I kept bringing it up.
But as we know here on this site, shutting up verbally doesn't mean it shuts up inside. And it's still not shutting up a year and a half later.
Sorry for the novel.
But as we know here on this site, shutting up verbally doesn't mean it shuts up inside. And it's still not shutting up a year and a half later.
Because "she" hasn't been heard. HB, you know that this is a shit show. You know it didn't happen the way it was presented. Look at her choices and boundaries. Look at his. Danger Will Robinson.
It's not "baggage" if it's warnings that are being ignored. Listen to yourself. Trust yourself. You know.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:24 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]
Initially after all of this went down, I told him that we should find new friends. He very aggressively and emotionally said, "Fine, we won't see them anymore." I backed down because one of the core members of this group is his best friend, really the only close friend he has (XH is about as anti-social as me), has been his best friend for over 10 years. This xBFF of mine is his sister so she ain't going away. He is married to my current closest friend, whom I became friends with through him and XH (they met after XH and I did).
They all supported him after my A and our D (some "supported" him more than others, ahem) and I just don't have the heart to be the mean ogre of a girlfriend who rips him away from the only pals he has. Plus, they are my only social circle too, and his BF and my current closest friend have a little girl, whom I am crazy about. It would hurt me too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't...
Besides, my relationship with them is just like mine with XH. We are close, we get along very well, have fun together...everything is fine as long as my mind doesn't come apart and stuff doesn't get brought up.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 4:31 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]
I know something stinks here. Bad boundaries all around, yes. But when you have people swearing up and down (as everyone involved here has) that nothing happened while we were married, and I've not known any of them to be liars before, I start to feel as though I am projecting. Like how you hear about all the time here, "I was cheating so he/she must have been too!"
I really don't think it was going on before. I do think my XH is weak in ways I never thought he was before, and what happened shows that. I told him this at the time...that I'm astonished at his poor boundaries...that I am hurt by how he and she disrespected me (the false hope of post-D reconciliation while they were fucking)...and that I thought I was the only one with those types of issues; it's too bad it was both of us.
I'm not trying to be a hypocrite or say "I could do it but you can't!" I'm saying I did the work to fix my shit...HE thinks he "was stupid" but doesn't see the need to go beyond that. Wouldn't my life have been simpler if that was all the introspection it took on my end!
But maybe that IS all the introspection he needs. See, that's where I get confused, and where I think I'm still projecting/making too much of it. We're not all the same. Certainly his behavior was nowhere near as egregious as mine, and who am I to think his internal process needs to mirror mine when working through his own bad choices?
I just keep coming back to, if he had done necessary work, he a.) wouldn't have put his life in the shitter the way he did, and b.) he would look different to me now.
the false hope of post-D reconciliation while they were fucking
...makes me think they're not as honest as they're saying they are. To be honest (I know you don't think anything happened before - but if they were lying about this, what else were they lying about?), I wouldn't blame you if you did feel that your XH is a madhatter. If he's talking to you about post-D reconciliation (in other words, talking to you about continuing a relationship with you) and meanwhile sleeping with your xBFF, then yeah, I'd say that's cheating. Leading you on counts as cheating, imo. At minimum, making poor choices that are effecting your relationship now (and that's not something to dismiss!). And if they were lying about sleeping together during this time - that's really not as honest as they appeared to be. Something to look into.
It sounds like you're wanting to be mindful that you don't project. I really, really don't think you're projecting. If anything, I think you're trying not to let it hurt, even though it DOES. It does hurt. It's a hurt that it doesn't seem you've been able to be open with your XH/SO about - because you don't want to project, and because he hasn't really been supportive of working through it, has he? And you know, your XH could stand to do more introspection than "I was stupid". If for no other reason than, his choice to sleep with your xBFF hurt you, and you and he are currently in a relationship together. It SHOULD matter to him - you're his very current SO.
Sorry I'm getting so worked up. I hate to see you question your pain and try to hold it in. WS or not, you should be able to talk to and work together with your XH on this, be a team together. Not try to stuff the pain because you're afraid that feeling the pain makes you a hypocrite (it doesn't). Does he know how much it hurts you?
It's a hurt that it doesn't seem you've been able to be open with your XH/SO about - because you don't want to project, and because he hasn't really been supportive of working through it, has he?
He was supportive at the beginning. He let me ask questions and express my feelings. But then it got old and he made it very clear that he felt that discussing it any further was hindering our current relationship and we should leave the past in the past. Typical stuff. Edited to add: every time stuff gets uncomfortable in life, he shuts down. Doesn't matter if it's this or my A or problems with his FOO or work. If it's uncomfortable, he's out (mentally & emotionally).
Could it be that if you were to meet him for the first time today (finances in the toilet, friends with unhealthy boundaries (questionable boundaries at least)), would want to date him or marry him?
This is in fact a thought that I've had before, and a question I've asked myself many times. The answer is "probably not." But I do know him, and I know his good points (which, being honest, far outweigh the bad), and that good makes me want to trudge onward.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 9:10 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]
What bothers you presently will manifest itself as anger if you take this relationship to remarriage . A little scatterbrained now becomes an irresponsible loser later.
That's the messed-up part. He used to be ultra responsible. He used to pride himself on paying his bills and honoring all financial commitments.
I understand that a lot of people (investors, like he was, especially) got put in a tough spot after the housing bubble burst. And I'm not speaking against folks who through no fault of their own are behind on their bills. But my XH made enough to stay afloat. He just walked away.
I did ask him, WTF would have happened had I not cheated and we had stayed married & had kids? We would have just been out on the street? No answer.
He beats himself up plenty, so I feel guilty adding fuel to the fire, which is why I keep quiet. But after awhile, it builds up inside and has to come out. I post here so as not to keep bringing it up to him.
[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 12:55 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]