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So, I asked if we could talk last night. I told him I was having a hard time dealing with the last message OW sent me claiming that WH sent her a text. (She got around my blocks.) He continues to deny that he sent it. I tend to believe him over her.

But then he started to get mad. He told me I needed to go to IC and that our MC told me that, too. I have been to one before but I felt like that IC wasn't going in any direction. He made it seem like I was avoiding going. I have been putting it off because of the cost but I told him I would call on Monday. Fine. I told him he needed to read one of the books I have. He said "So I can read about what a horrible person I am?" UGH!

But then he tells me that I need to talk to an IC about this stuff and not him. That it serves no purpose to talk about it. That even his IC has said the same and we need to move forward. All of this was said in a tone that sounded like he was just barely containing his anger.

I tried to explain that if I cannot talk to him about it then it is just going through my head all the time and if I rugsweep it then it will come up later and cause even more problems. He said that is why I need to talk to an IC, not him. I told him I wanted to talk to him so that we can comfort each other when we are upset. I was crying when I said that but he didn't try to comfort me.

The part that hurt the most was at one point, WH asked me what is on my mind that I cannot get out of my head. I thought maybe he was trying to do what I wanted. I thought about it for a few minutes to try to compose myself to talk about it without becoming upset. I told him that Christmas has been on my mind and that things from last Christmas really hurt. He told me AGAIN that I needed to go tell an IC that it is September and I am already thinking that Christmas is ruined, blah, blah, blah. No remorse. No comfort.

I cannot even begin to remember everything that was said but it boiled down to he is unwilling to talk about the A anymore. And now I have to figure out if I can live with that. But there isn't only me to consider, we have a sweet little girl to think about as well. Leaving would destroy her world.

Has anyone been able to successfully reconcile without discussing the A with your WS?

My feeling is that he caused this shit storm and when I need to, for as long as I need to talk about it we will.

That said, I'm so sorry he's not being supportive of your needs.

Maybe HIS IC needs to explain to him why you need to go over things.

Hugs to you.

You are 2 months from your second DDay, several broken contacts, etc. And he doesn't want to discuss it? Your IC is supposed to help, not him?

No, this is wrong, wrong wrong. He is not remorseful at all. He wants to rug sweep, blame shift, etc.

No, you can NOT successfully reconcile without discussing. The problems are never addressed, the why's are never addressed, the pain is never addressed. You will resent him, the "elephant" will always be RIGHT there.

His attitude is not of someone who wants to put his all into his marriage.

His expectations are bogus, my friend. Bogus. He lured you into false R and broke contact 2 months ago and expects that you won't want to talk about it? That is utter BS.

My gut reaction is that something is lurking beneath the surface. He's hiding something. Maybe something new, like broken NC; maybe something from the past.

I'm so sorry. He's not R material. You can't R by yourself.

(((((hugs))))) have you considered the 180?

Your whole post is one big red flag to me. He must be willing to talk about it with you if you need to and to deny you that to me means he is not in R, may still be contacting the OW, or wanting too, or may revert to it if he hasn't already.

None of this is good and you must decide if you can live with this because what he is doing is a huge roadblock for your marriage. It cannot be just forgotten.

You must draw the line if he wants to stay with you and move on if he doesn't but you won't ever have a true marriage this way.

[This message edited by PamJ at 9:08 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Everyone is correct. I too feel he's hiding something.

Time for a reality lesson. Personally, I'd say thanks, open my own bank accounts and fund them well. Make an attorney appt, (you don't need to follow through), and set some rules, your rules.

He no longer gets to "decide" what you know and don't know. That hasn't gone so well, has it?

I gave my fwh one chance, a get out of jail free card, but if he didn't come totally clean, she could have him & he should pack his shit, he knows where the door is.

Saved our marriage. He knew I meant every word, and I did.

Until you set the rules, and live by them, he doesn't change anything. You will know how to proceed by his actions, and we will help you through it.

changed - this is not good. There needs to be an attitude of humility in the WS. He is no where near...

He doesn't want to read the books equates to not wanting to face what he did and not thinking the marriage is important enough to do it. I'm so sorry.

Also, the IC are wrong. And that is one of my biggest beefs with therapists - that they encourage us to move past it before we're ready.

Would he come here to read?

I'm thinking it's time for the 180 with him.l...

I'm so sorry. I agree with everyone else. Sounds like a big huge red flag to me. There isn't a day that goes by that my husband and I don't talk about his cheating. Most of the time he is the one to bring it up. He said that at first he was afraid to talk about it because it made him feel ashamed of himself but now being able to talk about it actually helps him. He now feels like he can be completely open and honest with me about everything for the first time in our entire marriage.

Red flags to me too..Your WH is trying to get the heat off of his butt by making you think that you are the crazy one who has problems moving on post his A..After your WH having made that statement to you about ruining Christmas when it is only September, I would have been telling him to get the f*&%$$ out of the house and then do a hard 180 on him..

If you are going to have to live with not talking about the A there will be too much resentment..Especially if your WH goes on to business as usual in the M and doesn't change his ways and treat you like a queen

[This message edited by doggiediva at 5:09 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Find a good MC.

Then ask him to go too.

He is being manipulative.

Good luck. He needs tofire his IC if she said that.

I suspect your H doesn't want to acknowledge the depth of the damage he's done to your M, to you, and to himself. He may have taken his A further underground. He doesn't sound like he's a candidate for R right now.

Why are you accepting this sort of treatment from this guy? Have you considered seeking IC with the goal of learning how to assert yourself in your relationship with your H? Tell the C that's what you want to do, and don't sign up with a C unless s/he says s/he can help you achieve that goal.

I also suggest you read about the 180, which is another way to find and enhance your strengths, when your WS isn't committed to R.

Thank you to everyone for your responses. I'm sorry I cannot reply often but I do quickly check for and read all the responses. And I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply.

The next day WH and I talked again. He said that he never said I cannot talk to him but that I also need someone else to talk to. I'm pretty sure I heard and understood him correctly but we do have terrible communication skills with each other. So, either way, he agreed to set aside a time once a week to talk about it. We did agree not to talk about it right before bedtime which is when our last conversation happened. Not a good time for either of us but it is difficult to find another time with a preschooler around.

He also said that his anger is at himself and he gets frustrated when we have so many good days and then a bad day happens.

He does still believe that we need to move forward and focus on the positive. I told him that I know me and that alone is NOT what is going to help me. He agreed to try it my way for a while.

As for the red flags, I see them but I have no proof. Am I willing to end our marriage and destroy my DD's world based on a suspicion? No. If he did send that message to OW, perhaps him knowing that she will contact me if he does it again will be enough to stop him. If I am setting myself up for another Dday, at least I can say that I did everything I could to try to keep our family intact.

Im going to be really blunt here with you.

Unless you make it very clear that you are willing to leave him, he will continue to set rules for you. You have given him total control and allowed him to continue to manipulate you. We understand, believe me! You do this out of fear.

However, sometimes it is necessary to become a raging hormonal bitch to bring a wayward back into reality.

If my FWH dared to limit me to once a week, i'd most likely murder him! He's given you nothing, you know it. Don't let your fear control you. He is the one who made this choice for you, he needs to try with everything he's got to fix the unfixable.

He is as selfish today as he was when he made this decision the 1st, 2nd, 3rd time........

In a situation like yours, you need to be willing to give up the marriage to save it.

If you don't, you will continue to share him. Is that OK with you?

Did you tell her husband? If not, do it now and don't alert your husband until afterwards.

I'm so sorry, there is not too much worse than betrayal. Please really listen to what we try to tell you. We all care and are trying to help.

Take good care of you!

Changed

Back to your original question:

Has anyone been able to successfully reconcile without discussing the A with your WS?

Old timer here, more or less successfully R'd and still married over 30 years later. The short answer is Yes, my best advice is Don't.

We didn't have Dr. Glass, or SI or the Internet, and the state of the IC and MC community at the time was worse than useless, looking back, actually harmful. So, we made it up on our own, and essentially wrote the first chapter of the Wayward's Handbook, Default Response to Getting Caught.

Today we call it Rugsweeping, and using anger as a technique to keep the subject from being discussed is the first strategy. In my case, wanted to save my marriage more than I wanted to confront my FWW's anger, and it left me with debilitating PTSD. Don't go there, save yourself first, then the M, then your WH. In that order.

BTW, anger CAN be sign that the A has gone underground, but it can also just be an expression of toxic shame. Whatever, do not let him get away with it.

This is a painful way to live. He cheats, break your heart, and you get to shut up.

Samantha is right, that elephant will just move right in and take up all of your space, both in your head and in your home. How do your get rid of it?

It is not easy, but pretending it is not there will keep you walking in s**t. How do you swallow an elephant? One bite at a time. It will take a long time and if he helps you, it will go twice as fast.

It sounds as if he wants it over as soon as possible. Everything he is doing will prolong the R and possibly make it impossible. His actions since DDay are the exact opposite of facilitating a good, active R. You are going to get stuck in his whirlpool.

Can a M heal and R without discussing, sure. Will it be healthy and happy, NO.

Now in your first post, I said to myself, this jerk is either in the middle of another A, has taken it underground, or at a minimum still has feelings for ow.

In your second post, I see manipulation by him, I didn't say that, but I did say this, see your doubting yourself. Your doubting if you really heard what you heard. Of course being heartbroken, exhausted, and at the end of your day of course you are questioning what you heard.

The more important part of all of this, is HE DOES NOT GET IT. He isn't willing to accept the pain he has caused, he is wanting to rugsweep and manipulate you. You are allowing it. So for that reason alone I do agree that you should go to IC. It's time to get strong. It's time to figure out why you are willing to accept this level of treatment.

You don't want to rock your daughters world, I can respect that, but let me ask you this. If you were seeing this happening to a sibling, a dear friend, or even your daughter what would you tell them? Do you think keeping an unhappy, unsound marriage together, and rugsweeping all of this is teaching her what a healthy relationship looks like? Don't you think she deserves a mom that is treated with love and respect, and honor? To see a mom that is strong, and capable, who demands to be treated like the queen you should be?

It finally took me deciding my kids deserved more from me, and a as close to normal home life for me to get strong, to step up and find my evidence, and force him to leave, with this came the clarity, that I deserved more, and I was going to demand it, so he promptly got his head out of his ass and started the REAL work of R. Your H still has his head firmly planted in the land of unicorns, and rainbows, and he is going to behave poorly until you tell him he can't.

((((and strength))))

Hon, you are only two months from his last broken contact. Discussing this once a week isn't going to work.

But the bigger issue at play is he doesn't get to dictate how you heal. Just. No. He is still manipulating you just like he did during the affair. I strongly urge you to consider the 180 at this point. Add some strength to yourself. Plot your path out of your marriage. Once you do so, you can reconsider the marriage from a point of strength.

As far as I am concerned there are two choices; talk about the affair, or talk about divorce.

I would like to suggest you either email this thread from the wayward side forum or print it if you don't want him on your turf or whatever(I so get that). http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

I sent it to my H last week. It completely explains my own bs experience and I needed him to understand. My H is the picture of remorse and busting his butt to R but he isn't perfect and was really missing some things. I hope your H gets his head out of his sphincter.