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I just want to talk to somebody...
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WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 08:13 AM
And you all are usually 'it'.
My husband, I think, is going off the deep end! Well, maybe that is a bit too dramatic - maybe it is ME that is going off the deep end! 
Many months ago, (7 years after his infidelity - and over 6 years of rugsweeping and 'forcing' him to talk about IT from time to time) I gave my husband the book "How To Help Your Partner Heal..." and he read a little bit here and a little bit there. I don't know if he has even finished it. We have never spoken of it.
During the past few months, I have noticed small - tiny - changes. If I mention anything at all even indirectly pertaining to his infidelity, he says "I'm sorry". He has grabbed my hand in church when I am visibly upset.
These are positive things, right? But there is another side to this. He is being really hateful to our kids. He has always been hard on them - most especially because they don't 'respect' him. I have heard this until I want to scream. I want so badly to say, "WHAT IS THERE TO RESPECT?". But I don't.
Last night our oldest asked for a ride to take our mower to a friend's house to mow their yard for money. (He is 20 and very unmotivated - lives with us and does very little but stay in the bed all day. Has several diagnisis: mood disorder, FAS, learning disabilities, etc. Has been in a year long adventure program away from home - has been arrested a couple of times for DUI, etc.)
So, once we get to the house last night, he changes his mind. The guy isn't home. Tells me on the way home that he doesn't want "his mommy" to wait for him while he mows a yard. (His brakes are out on his vehiclel.) We start a conversation about the direction of his life, etc. It is the most he has talked to me in YEARS.
We come home and before I can let my husband know that he is 'talking' about some stuff, my WH lets into him about how he should have kept in touch with the guy and known when he would be home - blah, blah, blah.
They end up in a big fuss and my opportunity to continue our conversation is gone.
My frustration - other than the obvious - is that I am living in a vacuum. My kids don't talk to me. I can't talk to my husband. I have so much going on in my life, and I feel so ALONE>
This morning, I told my husband that I hoped he could tell by now that I have had alll I can stand of the griping and mean attitude. On thing led to another, and he - of course - turned it around on me - saying, "unless it is you doing it!". (And, of course, I get upset at my kids sometimes, too.) But when my husband talks to them like that, it is if he can't stand any of us. He told me this morning that "They treat me like dirt!" I said, "And you, them." He, of course, left the room.
My son needs some psycological counseling - which he has had before, but refuses now. My husband needs help - BIG TIME. And I'm certain that it wouldn't hurt me one little bit either!!! But money is tight right now, with one kid in counseling every week, so I guess we will have to take turns.
Lately I have begun to wonder if, by reading that book some, he has begun to see himself more in light of what he did, and is feeling really negative about himself. If that is true, he is redirecting it towards us. He acts as if he can't stand any of us. (I also think that he is having a delayed reaction to his disability.)
Or, maybe he is just a very weak man who has started treating us like his father treated all of his family growing up. I guess either way it doesn't matter, it is really hurting the family.
It seems that right now in my life, every little thing that can go wrong - does. I try to be positive, but I can't do it alone. I need someone to help me - like a partner - someone who has my back and I have theirs - like a...oh wait, a husband. And I do have one of those - at least on paper!
I don't know what to do. I want to help all of them / us. I want to make a happier home.
And so I come here to vent.
Thanks, y'all, for always listening.
eta: I feel like emailing him and saying that he is hurting the family and that we really need to talk to someone. But he never returns my emails, and has refused to go before.
[This message edited by WhatsRight at 8:17 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]
WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 08:39 AM
Well, I just sent this...
Feel free to send 2 x 4s...
Our family is in crisis. IN CRISIS. No matter what struggles you and I are having individually or as a couple, it is up to US to try to heal our family. It is up to US.Something has to be done. And NOW. No matter what is your comfort zone or mine, we must get some help and save our family. Are you willing to try to save your family - your children???
We feel as though you can't stand us. We feel that you treat us like dirt, too. You say you feel the same. Everyone is hurting - everyone. We need help.Do you know that the rate of repeating infidelity is about 75% when the person doesn't take big steps to change themself - otherwise the same things cause the same behaviors. That is one of the main reasons that I can't - as you say - "get over it". Because things haven't changed - maybe other than you saying you have stopped. The same things that you said caused your cheating behaviors haven't changed - not being close to me, can't talk about important issuses, not feeling respected, etc. There has been no big signs of remorse.
It is my job to try to take care of my children. AND support my husband. All of their lives, it is like you have been asking me to choose between the two of you. That just isn't what it is all about.
I understand that you want them to respect you. I have wanted for you to respect me. With being faithful and then addressing the situation when you weren't. But you haven't. This isn't a situation of you alone being mistreated. Our kids need us. I need YOU.I won't stand by any longer and watch the family fall apart.
We need help with parenting, our partnership, and healing. There is still time, but not for long. They will be gone, and the chance will be over. I will never forgive you if you don't stop hating, and try to help me heal this family.
refuz2bavictim posted 9/23/2013 08:45 AM
((Whatsright and family))
Just listening to you. I don't have advice or 2x4's.
StillStanding1 posted 9/23/2013 09:04 AM
Also sending hugs. Wish I had sage words of advice. I have huge issues as well, with how my WH has handled the fallout of the A and his relationship with our children. (Our oldest 2 found out about the A 6 months before me and my DD confronted him that September). WH is a master compartmentalizer and wants them to "just get over it". When I try to explain how badly they are hurting and how they will suffer lifelong damage if we can't heal them, he feels as though we are beating up on him. It's an untenable situation.
I wish I had some magical solutions. I just keep trying. I see that is what you are doing too. I have no 2x4's. I really hope you make some headway and find a path to hope and healing for you and all of your family.
WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 09:43 AM
This is his reply:
It’s always the same my fault you act like I started it when he came in cussing and mad because I ask him to get the donuts down and cussing the guy who wasn’t there and then refused to do what I ask and then started yelling and cussing me. Yes, I am very disappointed that my kids did not give a shit about whether or not I got to riding and you didn’t either. They won’t help or step to don anything unless for pay or discipline. I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHERE I’M THE BAD GUY! I know you take this wrong but don’t know how to respond to you. Of course I won’t to help our family but, I feel it is your family and they could care less about me.
[This message edited by WhatsRight at 9:55 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]
WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 09:54 AM
And...my response to him...
No, I wasn't disappointed that you didn't go riding. I admit that to you. You have always said that you wouldn't go alone, yet you told me you told the boys you were going with or without them. I am sorry you were disappointed, but you can't even transfer yet (because of your shoulder) and yet you want to go riding? I did not think that was wise. I was glad that the opportunity to get further hurt did not happen. If that makes me a bad person - so be it.
Yes, you feel they could care less about you. And they feel you could care less about them. And I feel you could care less about me. Yes, we are all hurt. Its not just you. That is what I said.
The difference here is that we are the parents. It is up to us to step up. How can you be upset with them when they don't step up to help when you aren't stepping up to help them - and on a much deeper level?
As long as you think you are the victim here, you will be. We all are suffering, and about worse things than not going riding over the weekend.Even if you think they are MY family and not yours, they are your kids, too. You can either focus on your love for them, and decide that you will put forth the effort to actually help them, or you won't.
I will be moving forward with helping them. If you want to be a part of it, I guess you will let me know.Do you even remember the time we were working on our marriage, and we were supposed to visualize where we would be in 5 or 10 years?
You said that there were 2 divided hilltops. You said that me and the boys were on one of the hilltops playing and laughing, and that you were alone on the other hilltop. You said that you wanted to be with us but just couldn't get there.
Isn't this odd how this has come true. Me and the boys aren't laughing, for sure, but it is true that you aren't "with" us - emotionally. If this is because you don't know how to be, then maybe you should talk with someone to help you know how to make this happen.
If you aren't "with" us because you don't want to be, then I have no remedy for that. That is your choice.[This message edited by WhatsRight at 10:03 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]
Ostrich80 posted 9/23/2013 10:57 AM
Oh its so difficult when there's tension between parent and kid ( I know he's adult but still a kid to me). My ws treated my oldest son horribly and I have been the buffer for a long time. He's older than your boy but has severe depression/anxiety and his father hasn't helped. So intereting
that now sons doing better, my ws wants to take the credit..but anyhoo, just wanted you to know you've been heard. Those were some of the worst times of my life and I WAS alone. Try and do something for yourself, be good to you. Sometimes distance for a day helps to get regrouped. So hard, I know.
WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 11:05 AM
Ostrich80...
Thanks so much for the good news about your son. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear that he is doing better. Not only for you and him, but it gives me hope for my son.
I think I'm losing hope for my husband. 
confused615 posted 9/23/2013 11:11 AM
Hi Honey. Im so sorry you're dealing with this.
Here's the thing...he knows you don't believe in divorce. He knows he can continue to rugsweep,be an ass,be emotionally abusive towards his wife and his kids,and he knows you aren't going anywhere. As long as you rugsweep,things are ok. He doesn't care if you or the kids are unhappy. If he did,he would make an effort to get help.
This man is very dependent on you because of his illness. he takes advantage of your caring nature. He shits all over you and the kids...then expects you to wipe his ass. And you do.
So stop. Stop. I realize he is your husband,and he needs you to care for him. But,you have needs too. And he isn't even trying. Stop taking care of him. he needs to realize just how much you do for him...and just how "fucked" he would be if you stopped.
I know..this sounds cold. And Im sure you will say you can't do this,and you won't divorce. But..you CAN do this. You CAN tell him if he doesn't get his shit together,you refuse to continue living in an abusive situation..and you refuse to have your children living in it.
No threats. No ultimatums. You need to tell him you can no longer live this way..and if he refuses to make the effort,then you won't live this way any longer.
As long as he knows you aren't going anywhere,he has no motivation to change.
(((((((WhatsRight)))))
[This message edited by confused615 at 11:12 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]
kiki1 posted 9/23/2013 11:18 AM
((((whatsright))))
No advice, just wanted to tell you you've been heard.
Very tough situation you are in. Sorry you are.
Be strong, keep moving forward. Graceful.
hugs,,,,,,,,
heartache101 posted 9/23/2013 11:26 AM
WhatsRight
It will not change till you make it change.
My spouse use to yell and scream I would send everyone to their bedrooms. Yes spouse too.
#1 rule if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all!!! No matter who you are!
#2 You do not talk to me like you have shit in your mouth. Nor do you speak to anyone in the family like you have shit in your mouth!
You have to stand behind your words.
You also need to pull the kids aside and ask them if they need counseling to deal with his negative attitude.
Look it is up to YOU to keep this family talking. All you can do is try an do your best but noone should be subjected to constant belittling and the negative attitude your spouse is giving you and your family. I know been there done that..
So yes doll I have heard you.
Please please start respecting yourself more when you do you will be able to demand the better treatment.
hopefullromantic posted 9/23/2013 11:58 AM
You said that there were 2 divided hilltops. You said that me and the boys were on one of the hilltops playing and laughing, and that you were alone on the other hilltop. You said that you wanted to be with us but just couldn't get there.
Wow. Flashbacks of my childhood. Even when I was a child it seemed my father was always the outsider. Often, when my father would enter the room the whole atmosphere would change.
Remember when I said you reminded me of my mom, Whatsright? When I was a child I thought she was the perfect mother. But over the years, as an adult, I came to see her differently. I came to realize she loved her martyrdom. She repeated the pattern of her own mother. What I knew of my gparents was an old man sitting quietly in the corner, while my gmother ranted about the evils of the world. Apparently, when my mom was a child her dad was quite domineering over his wife and children. Just like my dad was. But now I see mom ranting about him, while he sits quietly in the corner. When she isn't ranting about him it's about my sister (who at 50 still hasn't grown up and is far too enmeshed with my parents). My dad has a history of running away for months at a time, but my mom always takes him back. She has never left him, but always seems to be miserable when he is with her. I think she loves her misery. Or at least, that is what is comfortable for her.
My FOO is in crisis too. Must be 40 yrs at least. The best thing I ever did was leave. Married a military man who took me away for many years. I can't even stand to be around them for very long. I diligently try to break from the pattern and not be like them. I hope I am succeeding. I hope you can succeed too.
TrulySad posted 9/23/2013 12:50 PM
This is clearly eating you up inside. I'm so sorry. It seems we can handle the crap that infidelity throws our way, but when it affects our children, we feel lost and truly wonder if we can control it.
I left my XH seven years ago. We had five children, ages 2 - 17. I left him for two reasons. One, he never showed true remorse, and did what was needed. And the second...his actions were hurting our children. Honestly, I never needed the first reason, as soon as I realized the second.
I remember during the course of our state's manditory one year separation before divorce... he was allowed to enter our family home to retrieve personal items (I had eventually taken out a protective order against him). He became violent during that visit, and my 16 year old quietly walked over to me and showed me her phone and said she could call 911 if I needed.
Talk about a 2x4 hitting me. I knew I'd never allow him back in. When we see our spouse hurting our children, even emotionaly, it's time to man up and be strong, even if it seems impossible. At the same time, whatever we want, that needs to be thrown from the car, and our children's needs should come first.
I know your son is older, but if this has been going on for a long time, he probably needs counseling. It does sound like he needs your help. Your H can help himself. He should not be your concern at this point. You and your children need your attention right now. And if your H refuses to be a positive in that, he needs to be out of the picture.
I do want to add that in some way, I agree with what your H may be trying to say, but has a lousy way of delivering. Your son, as an adult needs to start acting like an adult. It is NOT you and your husband's responsibility to support him financially. And when it comes to making the right decisions regarding the law, your son knows right from wrong. A lousy childhood is NO reason to do wrong. It doesn't help, but if your son wants to do right, he will. For you to help him, it's going to take him wanting to change.
Have you asked your H if wants to see your son become just like him, making some of the same mistakes? My XH has changed his ways, regarding our children. In fact, he's a stand up guy now. But he paid a very dear price. He lost me and his family. I've remained positive, with my children, trying to explain that even parents make mistakes. BUT he loves his children. My one son (17 now) has a lot of anger towards his dad. His father doesnt live near us, so I try and prepare my kids when he visits (once a year usually). The kids see their father's problems, but since him and I D, it made it possible for me to be the mom they needed, and his problems stayed away from them. I was able to calmly help "repair" the damage he did... and they all seem happy and doing great in life. All I see now is some anger, but that's expected and justified. And my XH, I think our D gave him the time and quiet to actually think about his own issues.
I really do hope you can find some help, and things get better. It's so painful to watch our children hurting and we are at a loss as to how to help. Please keep us posted, and remember to take care of yourself too. You deserve to feel happy within your life. (((hugs)))
Flowerforme posted 9/23/2013 13:25 PM
(((WhatsRight)))
Stick with your plan to make changes even if he isn't on board. It's never too late. A home should be filled with peace, joy and security.
TrulyReconciled posted 9/23/2013 14:19 PM
From many years of exposure I can tell you that in most cases when an adult is talking about being "the Bad Guy" there is depression involved.
With an near-adult son with an Dx of mood disorder(s) learning disabilities etc. you have to think about exactly where these came from (and it's not thin air).
What you are describing is common in families where there is undiagnosed (or diagnosed/unmedicated) depression, bipolar disorder, autistic spectrum disorders, personality disorder(s) or ADHD.
"Staying in bed all day" is an unmistakable marker for depression.
Why is this important? Well, for instance, if your H has adult ADHD/depression that can be treated and things will get better. Issues like personality disorders or more serious mental illness are more difficult to treat.
I don't think it's you. And by the way, "thinking that it's you" is common in the 'unaffected' spouse. Don't fall for it.
Best,
TR 
[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 2:23 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]
WhatsRight posted 9/23/2013 14:34 PM
I so appreciate all the comments, and I am reading them over and over.
I would like to add - if I forgot to mention - that our kids all are adopted) are all effected by their birth mother's drug and alcohol use and abuse. Just to clarify.
TrulyReconciled posted 9/23/2013 14:39 PM
Well that disqualifies any comments regarding heritability but NOT depression.