Good thing you got the separation agreement in place.
I do not think you are dazed and confused at all.
You know what is going on but are afraid to admit it.
Your wife is a liar. Your wife is a cheater. Emotionally for sure and maybe physically too!
She is right the issues in your marriage are internal.
Step up to the plate and start swinging.
File for Divorce. If your wife is not willing to be honest and work on the issues then do not prolong her nonsense.
She can cake walk all she wants but what you should be doing is working on you and your future with a woman that loves you and only you.
There is nothing wrong with being gay.
But IMO bisexual is a different issue. I feel bisexual people like your wife are selfish. They do not pick and choose, they just move between sexual partners at their convenience.
So do yourself a favor.
Do a 180. No relationship talk. Just coparent with her and let her go.
In time you will be better off for it and much happier.
Your wife needs to grow up.
HM64
Thank you. Part of the separation agreement stipulates divorce after meeting the defined waiting period. I will need to stop it if I chose to stay married.
I have been trying to 180 but it is hard in many ways. She continues to text and email hopeful things – i.e. Don’t give up yet, I haven’t. She is on a roller coaster and goes from being hot to cold I am not ready to move on
One complexity is that she doesn’t know that I know about the sexting.
I have been thinking of trying to have an honest direct conversation, but I expect her to continue to lie or minimize the situation. I also expect to react negatively to me knowing and accuse me of snooping instead of admitting the truth. I have also been thinking of the forum to have the talk, us 1:1 or with the MC. I am simply horrified that we’ll be opening the can of worms and our hour will be up.
I want to stay married, so walking away or ignoring the issues will only result in divorce. I need to put everything on the table, talk about it, and then decide or at least start the long road to recovery.
To start with: From what I read then all you know is that there are 1000+ texts. The content you don’t know. You can assume they are sexting but it could be non-sexual. Do you have proof of the content? Does your WW have a history of sexting? What is however obvious is that she is texting her old female friend excessively at the cost of the marraige. Is it a friend she had a sexual relation with?
To me there is a world of difference in being gay, bisexual or heterosexual. I know it’s simplification but IMHO a bisexual person is comparable to a woman that prefers thin dark haired men but marries a stocky bald one. Once the decision is made the choice is made to omit the other. Hetero is obvious. If she´s truly heterosexual she’s not having a physical affair with this woman. If however she is gay… Well then she is gay and nothing will change that. I think getting to the bottom of THIS issue is the key to whether your marriage should be saved or not.
Saying YOU want to save the marriage… that’s like the left hand saying it wants to clap while the right hand hangs loose. You need her participation.
You talk about proof… This is something we BS sometimes misunderstand. The “proof” we really need is enough proof to convince US. You don’t need court-grade proof, DNA, glossy photos or sworn affidavits. So if you know that she’s sexting the OW or if you feel safe assuming that 1000+ texts strongly indicate an inappropriate relationship… then go for it. Many of us have gone to bat with less than a 1000 texts and past history.
I say confront her. If you feel a need to then forewarn your MC so you can get a double session but even then… I strongly encourage you to confront your WW with the absolute base issue in the marriage: Is she capable of remaining married to a man or is she gay and should come out as a gay person.
I know an hour might sound short but IMHO this is basically what you might want to do next MC: Start by simply reiterating that previous to your marriage she had interests in women. State that you KNOW she’s interacting with the OW (you don’t need to prove this, tell her you know of the texts or anything – you don’t need to prove ANYTHING). State that although you will acknowledge that there might be factors you need to improve as a husband then the key underlying issue is whether she’s willing to commit to a monogamous relationship with you. The other issues are totally irrelevant if she is gay. Then simply ask her to commit her sexuality. Gay or not. Don’t expect an answer but tell her you expect an answer before you two can move on. If she comes out as gay… Well that’s it. If she refuses she’s gay then just stick to her being in an affair with OW. Just talk about it as it is a fact.
I don't know how old you are, but all of the reading I did post discovery showed that most gay/bi people who choose to hide their sexuality do so well, until they are into their 30's. Maturity, and just tired of hiding, bring several to have to face the fear...if that makes sense. My ex started having homosexual affairs in his early 30's (but...I found out post d-day, he had a gay experience in highschool that he didn't tell me about...) and one of his AP's told me about the affair, but he was probably at least the third one.
I would confront, because it truly is not fair to you for her to continue to string you along. My ex wanted the "normal" life, he loved having the cute wife, cute kids, nice house "normal" life, and his hidden gay life. It wasn't fair to me. Three years later, he is in an open gay relationship.
It is a LOT to handle, keep posting. Infidelity is infidelity, you will find a lot of support here.
Tons of hetero and gay people do the same. All waywards do this - moving between partners at their convenience. I don't think it matters whether the OPs have a penis or a vagina. Waywards are selfish, regardless of sexuality.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a debate on sexuality.
My WH's OW was in a committed same-sex partnership. I know it rocked her partner's world because she felt that there was nothing she could do to compete - she didn't have a penis. But what she realized is, even if she had a penis, her partner was broken and there was nothing she did or did not have that caused the A.
I'm not sure if that helps or not, a365. I wish you the best.
[This message edited by RockyMtn at 7:59 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]
She blew up when I confronted her that day about who she was texting
Honest people who have nothing to hide do not "blow up" when asked simple questions like, "Who are you texting with?"
I was told I violated her boundaries, I was smothering, controlling, and had unreasonable demands for sex
She is the one whose poor boundaries have brought a third person into your marriage. So you aren't perfect. No husband is perfect, but this isn't about you. You could work on her criticisms, be more permissive, supportive, asexual--it wouldn't help. She would just find something else to slam you about. She's blameshifting so she can hide from the fact that she's lying cheater who has busted up her family.
I have been confused to why she moved out so quickly.
She moved out so she could have more space, time and privacy to cheat on you.
She again stated we have internal issues that we need to solve and to stop looking elsewhere.
You do not have issues that excuse or explain her cheating. The problems in the marriage are caused by her actions. If there were problems before she entered an affair, they were the garden variety ups and downs that every long term relationship has.
The term "internal issues" really applies to your wife. Something is deeply wrong inside her that has allowed her to break her wedding vows, put her children's security at risk and create elaborate lies about your "issues".
Marriage counseling makes no sense when one spouse is having an affair and lying about it.
It's great that you are in IC, and that you found this website. We know about the shock, confusion and pain. I don't think the gender of your wife's affair partner matters at all. She is acting like a typical blameshifting, gaslighting, heart breaking Wayward.
She laughed it off – asked me if that what I was obsessing about.
a365, you are not obsessed. You're upset because your beloved wife, the mother of your children, is lying to you.
What adult texts another adult a thousand times?
My kids send a few thousand text messages per month. They are on their phones CONSTANTLY and each message probably consists of 2-3 words (sometimes less). Not even THEY send a thousand messages to one, single person.
I don't care if it's a best, best, best friend - adults don't text another adult that frequently UNLESS something is going on.
99.9% of the time it's a relationship.
We all know that. And I think you do, too.
Don't tell her that you've seen the messages. Just tell her that you KNOW that she's doing it and that you have evidence. Then see what pours out of her mouth.
Sorry you find yourself in this boat.
I think she is trying to get this relationship to the point where she can make a choice; you or her lesbian lover. Thats why she sends e-mails telling you 'don't give up yet' Maybe she hopes the OW will tire of her or she will grow weary of this affair and the very idea of a permanent homosexual relationship. Possibly she trying to 'get it out of her system' so as to speak.
So you are in limbo while she tries to make up her mind and I don't think you have the personal strength at this time to confront. You could make her angry and prompt a choice which is unfavorable to you. Think very carefully.
The advice to confront is excellent advice if you are prepared to face the consequences and possibly kick this marriage to the curb; which is what I would do in your circumstances. She wants out and is being very cruel in pursuing her selfish interests.
Members of SI have learned through painful experience that you need to be tough with the WS and draw boundaries; you have to be prepared to let go of the marriage if your WS won't let go of the affair. You are not willing to do this at this time. If you confront your WW will get very angry and defensive; she will strike back and you may be considerably worse off.
If you are not braced to possibly to end your marriage, then wait it out. Don't gamble if you are not prepared to lose when the dice don't roll your way.
I have sent my MC a message stating that I was planning on bringing up the topic in session tomorrow and I gave her some details. I also asked for some feedback/guidance on how she would like to address.
Now to answer some questions on the replies:
Bigger: I have proof of the texts, but I also read a few and they were ‘sexting’. I am not sure who she was talking to but I am fairly sure it was her high school friend who also is bi (and married with kids). I considered reaching out to her husband and alerting him but I am planning on letting that mellow a bit. I know I would want to know.
Cmego: I am in my late 30s and she is in her early 30s. I think she has been struggling with this issue for years. She had a prior marriage and I also believe this issue was a factor in that break up. She has always commented that ‘it was her issue and she would deal with it’. Last month, it turned into my issue with smothering, but I think that is simply due to her desire for space and not get caught.
Sailorgirl: It took more than a month to realize that the majority of the responsibility is on her side. She is confused about herself and her needs. I am past the point of denial and anger. I want her to be happy either way, she just needs to decide.
LifeisCrazy: Agreed. I don’t plan to expose what I truly know and what I don’t. In the end it doesn’t matter. She can deny, which tells me she is lying and I need to move on, or she can admit and we can decide where we go next.
Ok now: Her friend is not from the area. She has been sexting but I suspect she has a deep desire to test the waters. She needs to simply come clean and tell the truth of her intentions. I am not angry, and that feels very strange to me since I think I should be. I feel sadness for everyone esp our children. I am prepared to give up on the marriage – I don’t think I can do much more damage than force a decision and air the secrecy and lies. I still love her, but no one should live in this suspended state.
It sounds smart to bring this up with your MC. I hope your W gives you the respect of being honest. Remember that she chose to cheat. She could have shared her real feelings with her husband--you could have explored her sexuality together. Instead, she started sneaking around and blaming you.
I would expect you to get angry at some point--it's healthy to feel anger when someone betrays you and your kids. Maybe you feel she's not to blame because she can't help being bisexual. She certainly could have been honest, responsible and faithful while dealing with who she is.
It's compassionate of you to wish her happiness, but will she be happy with cheater OW when both of them have torn their families apart and only see their kids 50% of the time? Can she be happy with her lack of integrity? I'm sure you will eventually be happy, though, with or without her!
Also, I'd tell OW's BH. Just a simple message with a text for proof. He needs honesty, and your wives need a dose of reality.
I explained that I knew she had been sexting with her friend. I also stated that we needed to discuss options if she admitted it.
She was obsessed with the details: When, how, what did you see? She threated to cancel the MC and go see an attorney.
I withheld much of the details.
She admitted she sent a few but she stated that she wasn’t serious and it was a shame that I had to see the messages without explanation. She stated we are still in a committed relationship and she has neither the time nor emotional ability now to pursue anyone or anything. She still wears her ring and she is committed to us.
We discussed the reasons for our separation and called it a night
Now… Where do I go from here? We see the MC and I sent her another note with an update to last night’s conversation so we could jump in. I still feel there is more, but verifying will be impossible.
Her friend is not from the area. She has been sexting but I suspect she has a deep desire to test the waters. She needs to simply come clean and tell the truth of her intentions. I am not angry, and that feels very strange to me since I think I should be. I feel sadness for everyone esp our children. I am prepared to give up on the marriage – I don’t think I can do much more damage than force a decision and air the secrecy and lies. I still love her, but no one should live in this suspended state.
First, she has already tested the waters, and you know she is lying to you. I think that is the worst part, is knowing they are lying to you while they deny.
Second, I'm not surprised at your/her ages. It fits the timeline that I read about while struggling to understand about my ex. They want "normalcy", but it really isn't who they are...so they struggle with "the problem". My ex literally told me he felt he had the "right" to cheat on me while he "figured out" who he was.
Cheating is cheating. She is in denial, wants you and the "normal" life, and hiding away a secret life.
My ex denied for a long time. We even tried to reconcile for close to 9 months..until he cheated yet again with a man. That is when I left.
I was told the same thing during the discovery process, that he deserved privacy, I was smothering, I needed to just trust him, etc.
Bottom line, you need to take care of yourself and your children. Also, if you can, find yourself a good therapist and a good lawyer.
Keep posting, feel free to IM me if you have any questions!
[This message edited by cmego at 11:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]
I am seeing a therapist for myself and I have an attorney – we already executed a separation agreement which defines the assets and custody. She threatened last night to ‘get her own lawyer and revisit the separation agreement’ but I think that was her way of lashing out when I asked about the OW.
I have tabled the thought of reaching out to the OW husband. I know I would rather know, but I have little proof other than what I have seen and the call records of 1000s of texts back and forth (no content).
We are scheduled to see the MC tonight, and I am wondering if my spouse will show up. I have already informed the MC through email about the status and outcome of last night’s discussion.
I do not have any written proof and I so want to believe when she tells me that its nothing and the marriage issues are me smothering and controlling. However, I know – She knows and she is working hard to minimize what it is. She did admit to ‘sending a few sexts’ but it’s cheating, just not physical yet. I am certain there are hopes for her to move on to physical someday soon.
It’s funny, but I do not feel threatened by an OW. It is almost a relief knowing that there was nothing I did to drive her away. The concern I have is what if she is just seeking attention? What if the sexting was simply her way of feeling her needs and it ultimately didn’t matter if it was a man or woman? I already know the answer to this but what if the issues are as she says? Is it worth pursuing reconciliation?
We’ll we are still in therapy, and I am committed to overturning every rock but there are so few rocks left.
I feel nothing but pain and sadness as I slowly accept what is truly happening – I am losing my wife and my family is falling apart. I need to be strong at a time when you feel nothing but weakness esp for my children. Also – does anyone have any thoughts on Anti-Depressants? The Doc proscribed me Cymbalta yesterday. I have always stayed away from medication esp Anti-Depressants. I am going through hell and feel depressed bc of the situation, not bc I have an ongoing depression issue. I simply to not want to numb out the pain since it will make things easy. I do have concerns about my performance at the work place. I am not thinking straight and working slow.
Thanks again everyone!
I could probably claim to be the king of exposure. But now – in your situation – I would wait. I think the real underlying issue (clarifying your wife’s sexuality) is the key issue right now. You are getting excellent info from cmego on the sexuality issue. I strongly suggest you listen very carefully to her.
About the “written proof”. Why do you need that? Like I said earlier you only need to convince yourself.
In your social environment and family: What would the reaction be if she does come out as gay? Is there a religious or social stigma she fears? I encourage you to assure her that it’s really nobody’s concern if she IS gay. That you are perfectly willing to keep that secret, but that you really can’t be her husband any more. Marriage isn’t a competition and you don’t need a reason to give people to explain why you “lost”.
Anti-depressants are fine. They take time to kick in so start soon. Just be aware that you are taking them for a limited time and stick to that schedule. If you have a past of substance abuse then don’t use them.
We spoke about the sexting and the story changed some – she now claims she planted messages on her phone to see if I was snooping. She is either lying or I have completely missed the mark. Second guessing must happen – I want to believe her.
As for her being gay, I think she is truly bi. She has a preference for men, but women are safer. She has had sex with women, but never a relationship.
After completing with that topic we moved on the other issues in our marriage ‘control, sex, and smothering’. We had a good exchange on those topics but I felt we just didn’t completely address the sexting.
I sent a note to the MC this morning thanking her but asking for some advice on revisiting the texting topic or letting it mellow for a while. Again, I am in a very strange place. A thin thread holds my wife and I together.
On the Antidepressants – has anyone taken Cymbalta? I have never once taken anything like it and I am very concerned what it will do to me and the issues with the side effects.
It is called gas lighting, making your brain do strange things because you couldn't imagine doing that to someone else.
I also heard the same.exact.line. " I was making love to you...the guys were just for sex!!" Um. YEAH.
It is called denial, both for you and for her. It is a lot to wrap your brain around, I understand. You are not controlling her, you are expecting her to act.like.a.wife.
After ex's first affair was brought out, and we attempted R...I asked for the passcode on his phone and he said, "I DESERVE privacy too!!!"
I avoided the anti-depressants. I wanted to feel everything and make sure I was dealing appropriately. I tried them after my Dad died, and they made me numb...I didn't want to be numb again.
It was a long process for me to SEE the behavior that I can see now. He did everything he could to keep me in place, so his life wasn't ruined. It is mindfuckery. I can clearly SEE how she is treating you, and, as people told me as I was struggling to understand: Bottom line, she isn't straight. Put some condition into place, and if she doesn't meet them, then you have your answer.
Also, I'd say get a more aggressive therapist. Her opinion is just that...an opinion.
Do you feel like you were controlling, a365? Throughout our long term marriage this has been a running theme for my FWH. Calling me a "control freak". I would ask him, what do you mean, how am I controlling? He would never give me a specific answer, just shout at me that he was sick of me being this controlling person.
Fast forward to d-day and marriage counseling. At a MC session one day, FWH trying to point to how all my faults made him have the affair. Said how I was so controlling. I asked him to please explain to me how I am controlling because I honestly didn't know what he meant. MC told FWH to give concrete examples. FWH sat there and thought. And thought. And thought. Finally he comes up with "Milkshake doesn't let me have the tv remote control." Yeah, thats me, the control freak.
FWH felt foolish. He realized that was something he was projecting onto me. I wasn't controlling. Ok, wait, I admit, I didn't like FWH to have the remote. I have changed that "controlling" behaviour and now share the remote.
Point being, your wife trying to blame you for her behaviour. Do you agree with the MC about smothering and controlling behaviour or are they talking you into it?
eta: t/j just watched that movie this morning "Dazed and Confused", love that movie, then I come to SI and here is that topic.
[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:07 AM, September 27th (Friday)]
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson "She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson
The simplest explanation is usually the truth. She was crushing on this woman and secretly sharing sexual stuff she should only share with her husband. Now, she's lying about it.
I have read hundreds of marriage crisis stories. When one spouse starts criticizing the other in a mean, blaming way, demanding space and withdrawing from sex, they are having an affair. It's never just a mid-life crisis or because the faithful spouse has "issues". There are always secrets, lies, and someone else.
I still don't think her being bi changes anything. I am attracted to a variety of people, frequently to tall, lean men. All of my ex-boyfriends were of that body type. My H is on the short and stocky side. I choose him. I forsake all others. I don't need to get my jollies with any other type of body just because I could. That's what monogamy is about.
[This message edited by sailorgirl at 1:55 PM, September 27th (Friday)]
