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Warning: Sexual question possibly Tmi

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befuzzled110 posted 9/24/2013 08:20 AM

I don't know where to start. I have a very long history, 5years long, of WH betrayal. And I am at a new crossroad. I don't know what to do, or how to act, as I know he is trying. See, he's had three affairs, and we've been separated for 6 months in the past, and now have been together, trying, for just over six months. Expect he wasn't trying on all the levels I needed him to be trying on, if that makes sense. When he came home from the separation, with in a month things shifted. He was trying to "rectify his "friendship" with one of his affair partners, which I shut down as quickly as I could. That whole saga is/was a lot more complicated than I can explain right now. He works with a second affair partner, and I am having extreme difficulty with that. I mean EXTREME. I have shared exactly how I feel with him, and the contact is down to just work related things, that I can tell....but there is a twist to our story. He is bi. Due to a rocky false reconciliation 2 years into hell, we experimented sexually. Now, since he's come home, he is on Craigslist reading ads, of all types. I am completely horrified. I closed down the one email account that he was using for contact. I have told him I am not okay with what he is doing. I have gone with him to his therapist two weeks ago and brought this up to him, so that the therapist is not in anyway being manipulated and only used for "some' problems, instead of all. I just checked the history on his computer, and he is still reading Craigslist. I don't see new numbers popping in the phone account. So, I don't think he is contacting people any longer. I am just at my wits end though. When I sit down at the end of the day, he is trying. He goes to work. His time is accounted for. He is here when he is off. He doesn't leave, he is virtually attached to my hip, except for the time on the computer. He listens when I trigger. He is putting in effort in a lot of good ways... now. Here is my thing: I, in my screwed up trying too hard way didn't shut down and throw fits in regards to exploring his sexuality. To me, porn isn't a problem usually. I like erotica and other things. At the therapist I even admitted to being passive aggressive because I was trying in the wrong way to fight a base virtue that I shouldn't have been fighting. He ( WH) isn't doing more than reading, as far as I can see. I know that sometimes, I like to be alone with erotica, and I like my sexuality. I know I would probably feel uncomfortable if WH tried to shut down that "arena" for me. If he is just reading, or watching porn, and there is no contact with other people, and it's not out of control (taking time from family or work, and it's been beneficial for us sexually in the bedroom) do I just stay quiet?

bionicgal posted 9/24/2013 08:39 AM

To answer your question, I don't think so. It sounds like secret behavior, and there really isn't any room for that if you are trying to reconcile. You can't really compare yourself to him, since it doesn't sound like you acted out sexually. (Although you say "we" experimented sexually. . .)

I think everything needs to be on the table, and there just can't be any covert activity. Is it possible that he has decided he is gay, and not bi, but is reluctant to give up the family? I think I would be working on that angle pretty hard.

befuzzled110 posted 9/24/2013 09:44 AM

I have flat out asked him if he is gay, and is "using" me/us as a cover. He has denied. To be brutally honest? If he isn't ready to own to being gay, than he wouldn't be able to answer that question. As for the "we" in the sexually experimentation...When the shit hit the fan, *I* offered to open the marriage up. I did it for all the wrong reasons. And I despised it, and I backed out of what I had offered really quickly, but I had added to the confusion at that point. I had the low self esteem, and it allowed me to cheat without cheating. If that makes any sense. I guess an added or new question to ask is this: I don't go and announce when I look at porn, or read erotica. Should I have the expectation that he should?

StillGoing posted 9/24/2013 09:59 AM

I would not care if my wife watched porn but I'd be pretty pissed if she was reading shit by people on CL. If your WH wants to read bi-focused porn there's enough out there that he doesn't need to be looking on a site that caters to anonymous hookups.

ladies_first posted 9/24/2013 10:18 AM

When he came home from the separation, with in a month things shifted. He was trying to "rectify his "friendship" with one of his affair partners,

Now, since he's come home, he is on Craigslist reading ads, of all types. ...I just checked the history on his computer, and he is still reading Craigslist.

Not sure how long he's been home, but his boundaries leave a lot to be desired. Have you discussed healthy boundaries in MC?

And, specifically, what does your bisexual WH do with 15 minutes and he's just bored? I think boredom and weak boundaries easily lead to the slippery slope of acting out.

he's had three affairs

He has a demonstrated history of acting out with sex and poor marriage boundaries.

befuzzled110 posted 9/24/2013 10:19 AM

StillGoing, You are right of course. There is no reason for him to be on a site with real people. Period. As stupid as this sounds, it's that angle that I couldn't put into words. I will have a conversation with him about where he is finding his enjoyment, and how I would prefer that he not go to that site. How stupid is it that the simplest thing is hard to think of in these messes.

Lovedyoumore posted 9/24/2013 10:26 AM

I do not know how long you have been together, married or not, but when you enter into a committed relationship, all others are to be gone. If a bi person chooses to marry a woman, he has made that choice of committment and should honor it. If they cannot keep fidelity, then do not enter into a marriage. Being bi is not an excuse to continuing to stray outside a relationship. As many on this site have said, end your present relationship with dignity before starting another.

It sounds as if you need a complete start over with very deep conversation from both of you. Neither of you needs to hold back, it all needs to be said for a true R to happen. Neither of you needs to be guessing any thing about the other. Lay out your collective needs and wants before considering R. If they do not mesh, consider MC. If you no longer want the open relationship, one of your needs will be for that season of your life to end and commit to each other.

You cannot be his keeper. Either he is in this with you or against you. If you have to go behind him to keep him honest and open, he is not all in. Sometimes achieving a good marriage means giving up something for the general good. As an adulterer your H needs to look at this time like an alcoholic. You do not let a newly recovering alcoholic sip wine every night. Trolling sexually related hook up sites is the same as wine to the alcoholic. He says he is in, but really?

Could you give up erotica for him if he gives up trolling? Put those energies and time into each other and the world would spin for you. Do not look at it as a penalty but a gift to each other.

confused615 posted 9/24/2013 10:45 AM

My WH started out looking on craigslist..he looked for several months..then he opened a secret email account and started contacting these people...mostly men..and he hooked up with one man.

It started out as "just looking."

IMO..if he was wanting to "satisfy" his bisexual side..and still be faithful to you..then he doesn't have to do it on craigslist. There is quite a wide variety of gay porn out there(since you are ok with the porn).

My WH hooked up with a man. Once. I basically harrassed him for the first several months after dday,and finally,under duress,he told me he is bisexual. Now,he says he is not..was no longer curious..and has zero interest.

But his being bi..or not..and your WH's being bisexual doesn't matter when it comes to fidelity. Fidelity is a choice. WH chooses to be faithful to me. Being bi..or curious..isn't license to fuck anything and everything. I like men..I am heterosexual..but I *choose* to only be with my husband.

Have you told him flat out,no more craigslist?

He's had 3 affairs..and shitty boundaries...craigslist is REAL people..and way too much temptation. He is playing with fire.

ETA: Before dday, I liked porn too. I watched it with WH..and alone..on occasion. After dday we have a no porn "rule." He admitted the porn was a slippery slope to craigslist,and that porn was a problem for him. So no more porn for him. I,too,gave up the porn. First,it triggered the crap put of me,made me feel insecure,showed me what WH preferred to me,etc,etc,etc. Now I have no use for porn because it is unhealthy for my marriage.

It is ok to tell your WH no more porn,if you think he has an issue with it. But,IMO,only if you are willing to give it up too.

[This message edited by confused615 at 10:49 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

strongerdaybyday posted 9/24/2013 10:54 AM

Lovedyoumore has hit the nail on the head


Being bi is not an excuse to continuing to stray outside a relationship.

Is exactly what I was thinking.

befuzzled110 posted 9/24/2013 11:09 AM

You are all right, of course. And I thank you all for being frank with me. From the no pron rule at all, to bi doesn't mean allowing boundary breaking and everything in between. Again...sometimes when a person is in the middle of shit, they forget to look down and see the shit they are in. I will be having a talk with WH about boundaries and slippery slopes, Craigslist and porn...Thanks to all.

2married2quit posted 9/24/2013 11:13 AM

There's a much deeper rooted issue that he needs to confront. Has he always been curious about all this stuff? Or is it all of a sudden bang he's experimenting?

befuzzled110 posted 9/24/2013 11:45 AM

Always. And through the experimentation's, if you will, he has discovered his enjoyment of only one part of the whole bi thing that he likes. He told me somethings that he was into, before his affairs, but some of it turned me off, other parts of it was too much and I just ignored. I was too young and naive to care or understand the enormity of what he was trying to share with me. He isn't into full on sex with guys. He has said that he doesn't feel emotionally with guys the way he does with women. Which I believe. So, that being said, I will is something that he shared with me a long time ago that I didn't fully comprehend. And of course I understand that doesn't change faithfulness or monogamy. Would it be crazy to say that I think when he had his first affair, and with me opening the marriage up he felt more free to experiment. It was something he couldn't do when he was younger, and because boundaries were already broken it was something that he didn't feel was a big issue anymore and allowed himself to Now we are at a place where we are having to re-evaluate and mark our boundaries...Once boundaries are broken, it feels like they are never the same...

Tired05 posted 9/24/2013 12:31 PM

Sounds a lot like my situation. My WH is bi and liked to peruse CL often as well. He has actually hooked up with 4 guys thanks to CL (of course this was all unknown to me).

Now that we are in what I hope is R, I don't mind porn. I don't. I watch porn too. I don't care what porn he watches either, gay, bi, doesn't matter. But the problem I kept coming to was that he wouldn't stop at just watching. He would comment on the video, or would go and comment on nude pics that people post online to get reviews/praise from people. It seemed that he had no boundaries.

No boundaries + boredum = betrayal.

I told him that he can watch porn as long as there is no interaction at all. No commenting, reviewing, webcam, nothing. And nothing that is "real" people. Ie- people on websites or forums that post the pics to get ego kibbles. Only videos of some random "actors". Also as long as it doesn't detract from the family and if I ask he doesn't lie about it.

I said that if I happen to find any kind of comment or reply, etc. either way, even if it is just a "hey", DONE.

IWantDoOver posted 9/24/2013 13:55 PM

No boundaries + boredum = betrayal

No boundaries + (boredom + curiosity) = betrayal

And through the experimentation's, if you will, he has discovered his enjoyment of only one part of the whole bi thing that he likes.

I apologize if you're still in shock/denial, but now is not the time for euphemisms. Truth and honest communication are going to help you collect the facts that you need to make an informed decision about your marriage and future.

FoggedIn posted 9/24/2013 14:46 PM

I agree that asking him (demanding) to stop trolling CL is necessary!
If you are both ok with porn, then fine. If you occasionally like to watch porn/erotica alone & are both comfortable with the other watching, that's fine too!
But I would absolutely require that all interactions cease & that no visit to CL ever, for any reason!

My WH says CL is what led him down this slippery slope to a ONS with a CL hooker. I'm not 100% sure that's the entire reason, but far too slipper to ever risk it again.

We too 'experimented'. Our sex life was non-existent, until we started talking about our wildest fantasies last April. Immediately it all changed. (should've been a red flag, that only freaky fantasies make him want to have sex with me!) He became obsessed with the experimentations, to the point where he was making excuses out of the blue for us to go out of town, in hopes he could 'schedule' something freaky while we were gone!
Ultimately he scheduled a hooker for himself!

Now if I find any clues at all that say he's been on CL, it is an absolute deal breaker for me!!! Crazy freaky experiments..... never happening again! I went outside myself to please his sexual desires & this is where it got me.

Do not allow CL in your relationship! Whatever else the 2 of you do, that is mutually consensual, and does not involve any interaction with 'real' people is one thing. Solitary CL trolling, No Bueno!!

Hugs & I hope you two can set boundaries you are comfortable with!


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