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Is this what I think it is?

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thinmint posted 9/25/2013 12:49 PM

Dh and I have been married for 13 years, together 15. We’ve had our ups and downs, but this year has been a disaster. After a job loss (his), a death in the family and hurricane Sandy, which destroyed the lower level of our second home, we were already neck up in stress, but there was still more to come…

This summer, my mother broke her foot, and I went out of state (with my daughter) to take care of her for the week. My son and dh had some plans in the city and they stayed home. My son is 10 and had never been left alone in the house at night, but dh told me he was going to get drinks with his two colleagues (guy friends from work) one evening that week. I was uncomfortable with this but dh told me he needed to network (to get another job) and ds told me he would be fine. We live in a large, doorman building, and we know our neighbors, so I finally agreed. The plan was: Dh and his friends would be at a pub in the neighborhood, a 5-7 minute walk away, and dh would leave at 8:30 and be home by 10:30. And he would call home every 30 mins to check on ds.

Well, at 10:50, my son called me (at my mother’s house) to tell me that his dad wasn’t home, and he hadn’t heard from him since 9:30, and he had tried calling and texting him, but he wasn’t answering his phone. So I tried, and got no answer either. I emailed. No answer. 11:00 rolls around. Nothing. 11:30. Nothing. By now, ds is visibly upset (we were on Face Time), and I was just trying to keep it together. I thought of calling the friends’ homes, but dh is looking for a job, and I didn’t want him to appear irresponsible, or get the friends in trouble with their wives.

So at 11:50, (Dh is 1 hour and 20 mins late at this point), I called the pub instead. I described my dh to the host, telling him he would be with two men. The host said, rather carefully, “Yeah, there is a man here fitting that description, but he’s here with a woman.” My heart was in my throat when dh got on the phone. I told him to get his ass home, to which he said, in a rather businesslike way, “Yes, yes. I’m leaving now. I just lost track of time. We’re seated really far into the restaurant, and the cell reception isn’t good here.”

At 12:20, he still wasn’t home! The place is a 5-7 minute walk away! So I called the pub again, and this time someone else answered the phone (a woman), who was also very careful in her tone, and told me he had just left.

At 12:30, dh finally walked in the door – drunk as a skunk - and told my son not to be wimp and told me I need to let my son grow up. This was his first time at home at night alone!

Now, to get to the good stuff. During the highly heated discussion that followed, I found out the two guys “couldn’t make it.” DH told me the woman he was with was someone who worked for him. She is 20 years younger than him btw, and all I know about her reputation at work is that she couldn’t get the job done (was ineffectual), so she was transferred out of the department and now works somewhere else. BTW, she’s stunning, and one of the ONLY other things I remember dh saying about her (a long time ago—2 years maybe?) was that every guy at work wanted to sleep with her, but she trusted him because he was never going to be that kind of guy.

He also said, during this argument, that he wasn’t going to give up this friendship with her and that I was insecure and couldn’t handle him having a woman friend. I said, “I don’t think this is a friend. No other “friend” of yours ever made you lose your head and forget your kid!” I’ll also add here that I’ve NEVER seen an email or a text from this person, so what kind of good friend (that he will not give up) is this if I’ve never heard of her? Well, he gave me his new email password and told me he had nothing to hide and he loved me and he had always been faithful. He told her, “Hey you got me into trouble…” Nice, huh? You see how he was nowhere to be found in the drama?? And I don’t even want to know how the rest of that conversation went.

Which brings me to, this week. Almost two months after that incident, I sat down at the computer we share to pay some bills and noticed a single email from this woman. The subject was “Drinks Soon Hopefully” (yes, she punctuated it like it was the title of a book). I decided not to click at that moment because some friends were coming over and I thought, ok this is normal. A friend’s email in the mailbox. Nothing hidden. Nothing more.

But later, when I went back to the computer. Poof! It was gone. And he was signed out of email. Well, I signed him right back in and…even the trash had been emptied. When I confronted dh, he said he knew I was paranoid about this person and that’s why he had deleted it because he knew I would freak out. He has never been unfaithful. He loves me. He loves our kids. Yada yada yada.

I have never had reason to doubt him before this, but over the last couple of years he’s been increasingly distant. We never have sex. He’s never affectionate. We just go through the motions of living this life together.

Please tell me, is this what I think it is?

1devastedmom posted 9/25/2013 12:57 PM

I'm afraid it is what you think. I'm so sorry. I advise you to put a key logger on your computer and download spyware on his phone. I used mobilespy. Maybe I'm cynical but I always thought my husband would never do that but I was proven wrong.

hellzapoppin posted 9/25/2013 13:02 PM

Sorry you find yourself in this situation and welcome to a safe place

Always trust your gut

Time to find out more about what's going on but at the very least I'd want to kill him for making his son feel unsafe and for placing that friendship (which feels so inappropriate to you) above your needs

Plus the hiding of the email - people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing

And the no sex thing? Yeah, big clue


confused615 posted 9/25/2013 13:45 PM


I am fucking livid. How dare he leave that little boy home alone so he could go on a date(yes that's what it was..that's what it was when he lied and said he was going for drinks with 2 men). How dare he leave that poor little boy home alone until 12:30AM. He was scared. How dare he be the only parent in the state and IGNORE his child who was home alone. He could have been hurt..someone could have tried to get the very fucking least he was scared.

Yes he is cheating.

What he did to your child..and then coming home and calling him a wimp..holy shit. I would have had him served with divorce papers the next day.

ANY POS who forgets his ignore his child..AND is called and told DS is home and scared go home..and chooses to NOT RUN his fucking ass home..But instead continues to drink with a whore in a bar??OMG. He needs to grow up?? He is 10,FFS. My DS is 10..and I don't leave him alone long enough to run down the road to the post office.

What do I think this is? he is cheating. And what he did to your DS?


[This message edited by confused615 at 1:46 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

Lalagirl posted 9/25/2013 13:57 PM

I'm so sorry, thinmint...I agree with the other posters - he is definitely in an A - at minimum, an EA.

The fact that he had no regard for a 10-year-old CHILD and then made him feel like a wimp sickens me.

Time to do the 180 and go into stealth mode. Do not let him think you're checking up on him...that is where the 180 comes in...

PS - Your profile says you are male. I assume that is incorrect because your H is likely in an A with a female (although I can't assume because some WSs in same-sex relationships have As with people of the opposite sex).

PrincessPeach06 posted 9/25/2013 13:58 PM

"I won't give up my "friend"". I heard that line oh so much during my H's EA and have heard it here so many times. It's one of my biggest anger triggers. So sorry you are here, something is up for sure.

thinmint posted 9/25/2013 14:13 PM

Lalagirl- I am a woman, just updated that on my profile.

I'm just so scared right now. This man is my life, and I cannot believe this is happening. I would NEVER, in a million years, have thought this would be us. He had been cheated on in a previous relationship and had been so scarred by that experience (he left her because of it) that it was not even in the REALM that he would do this.

He's still denying, denying. Telling me it's my misapprehension of the facts. And I'm just in this rotten place, second guessing what I see and hear.

And I find it so strange that she would reach out again after that "Hey, you got me into trouble..." conversation. Wouldn't she give us a little time to at least let things cool off on this end??

If it's all friendly and innocent, as he says it is, why this emailing, deleting, emptying trash-- are these people so incapable of understanding there are consequences to these actions? Is anyone thinking straight??? Am I?

hellzapoppin posted 9/25/2013 14:23 PM

Denial is on page one of the cheater's playbook.

(My ex looked me straight in the eyes & said, I have never cheated on you.)

If this ho is brazen enough to meet a married man for drinks, she's not going to back off and respect your marriage.

And you see that your H is blame shifting right? He's not doing anything wrong it's just that YOU are paranoid. And your son is not a scared kid, he's a wimp. (FTG= fuck that guy)

Time to act like a PI. Don't confront again until you have done your homework and have the goods.

If he loves you like he should, he would end the friendship (barf) just because it makes your spidey senses tingle.

Yes, it's all scary and unbelievable but you will get through it, and find a wealth of experience and support here.

callmecrazy posted 9/25/2013 14:36 PM

So lets go along with what he says for a moment "no sex" Fabulous, good for him. What are they talking about? Why arent you going for drinks too and meeting her. If they are such great friends one would think she'd want to meet the wife. If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?

I'd say regardless of what it actually fully is, it is wrong. It is disrespectful and a good husband would want his wife's respect not to hurt her and make her worry about being replaced.

Hugs thinmint. I'd start doing all you can to see what the truth is, because his story is not adding up.

Lalagirl posted 9/25/2013 14:39 PM

You and he should read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It will help you and hopefully help him to defog - he is not getting what he is doing is wrong on so many levels. Google "signs of an emotional affair" - that will provide a wealth of info too.

The one main thing that shows it's an EA is that he was hiding his "friendship" from you. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

self-rescuer posted 9/25/2013 14:40 PM

You are thinking right. Unfortunately, you are completely on-target.

Your gut needs to be your guide.

Post here often. We are here for you.

One final suggestion. You need to play nice at home so you can really dig. I know it is the hardest thing in the world - not seek reassurance and comfort from the man you love - but if you want to discover the truth, you have to keep them from taking it even more underground. Only by not tipping your hand will you be able to learn the scope of the affair.

Hugs to you sweet friend.

gypsybird87 posted 9/25/2013 14:55 PM

Listen to your gut, ALWAYS.

You know what this is. There are not many things that will make a father completely forget about their kids needs but in my experience an OW is definitely one of them.

I had a similar experience. I was out of state visiting my parents. Tried calling XWH cell number and could not get him, well into the night. Called the house number, no answer. Finally, frantic, I called my stepsons cell #. He was very sick, throwing up, barely able to answer the phone. Said dad was not home, he did not know where dad was, and hadn't heard from him for hours, despite calling dad's cellphone repeatedly. You get one guess where dad was. Yup.

Now my ex-stepson (god that sounds terrible ) is older, a teen, but quite immature for his age and was audibly upset at being so violently sick while home all alone and no reachable parent other than me 500 miles away.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. On so many levels!!


So sorry you and your son are being put through this. Please, as things start to come to light, (and they will!) place more trust in your own instincts and gut feelings than in anything your H has to say. If nothing else, he is clearly a man who is not putting you and your son first right now. Since he is not, you MUST.

Be strong, be relentless, demand honesty and transparency. You deserve nothing less than the truth.

Hang in there.

thinmint posted 9/25/2013 15:01 PM

What if dh deleted the "Drinks Soon Hopefully" email from OW because she said something like-- I hope you and your wife are doing well. I hope she understands that we're just colleagues. Let's have a drink one of these days. Maybe he deleted/trashed/signed out of email because he didn't think I would like her even talking about me. Which I wouldn't.

But the "Drinks Soon Hopefullly" email (that I'm kicking myself for not opening) could just as easily have said, Hey, hope things have cooled down on your end. I miss you. Let's get a drink like we did that night we...

That definitely deserves to be deleted/trashed/signed out.


brokenblackbird posted 9/25/2013 15:11 PM

I'm sorry you are here and facing this soul crushing heartbreak.

Your gut is telling you something is wrong. Your brain is 'rationalizing' his behavior and making excuses for him (AKA, the email *could* have said). That is crazy making and very confusing.

Go with your gut.

You should also check your husband's cell phone log, text messages and keep following up on his email. Expect to continue to get gaslighted. WSes are seldom honest about their activities.

alphakitte posted 9/25/2013 15:12 PM

When someone can't have their way, and they respond in anger, or diminish another's feelings (your son's) they are deflecting attention. They want you to focus on the fact that YOU have upset THEM, rather than the action they committed which upset you.

I won't bore you with how many times my serial cheating husband told me, "we're just friends", but considering what else you have posted here - they aren't just friends.

Shirley Glass has written, "Not Just Friends" just for this kind of issue.

gypsybird87 posted 9/25/2013 15:14 PM

Just my opinion but I think it if was anything platonic, harmless, just friends etc, he would have showed it to you immediately to reinforce his "I'm innocent and you're just paranoid" argument. Cheaters will do anything to take the focus off them and put it back on you. They want you to doubt yourself; that's they way they like it, they way they need it, in order to continue their A in peace. If this email would have assisted him with that, he would have showed it to you.

As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Are you sure the email is truly gone? My Outlook has this weird extra (and somewhat obscure) folder that holds every email I've ever sent or received, even ones I've "deleted" from my inbox. Any chance your email program has something similar? Or try googling "recover deleted email from yahoo" (or aol or Hotmail or whatever you use). You'd be surprised. "Deleted" items are rarely truly gone.

[This message edited by gypsybird87 at 3:15 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

confused615 posted 9/25/2013 15:20 PM

Put a keylogger on the will show you if he has any secret email accounts...and put a VAR(voice activated recorder) in his car...chances are he has another cell phone you don't know about.

HurtButHopeful? posted 9/25/2013 15:20 PM


I'm so sorry you are going through this. Like the others have said, your H is definitely in an A, whether it is an EA or PA, it is an A.

Most of them deny until there is proof that they can't deny. Some will say the phone bill is wrong, someone is out to get them and sent those emails, etc. but most of them will admit to what is proved.

He will deny anything you don't have proof for, and then he will trickle truth and gaslight you (make you think you are crazy for putting things together in your mind and knowing things in your gut.)

Do as others have said, put in a keylogger on your computer. Get out the cell phone records and scour them. Maybe activate whatever you can on his phone to tell you where he is at all times, or put a GPS in his car. Put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car, in his office, or wherever he spends lots of time.

I'm so sorry for you. You are only at the beginning of the terrible, rollercoaster ride of infidelity.

big hug for you (((((((thinmint)))))))

keep posting and reading here. It will help you do the right things to stop the A or at least get yourself out of the drama, and get you through it.


1Faith posted 9/25/2013 15:57 PM

over the last couple of years he’s been increasingly distant. We never have sex. He’s never affectionate. We just go through the motions of living this life together

This man is my life

Is the first quote the life you want to settle for?

Follow your instincts. He is lying to you and trying to minimize to sweep this all under the rug to return to his life previously in progress.

Call this OW. She may have some news for you. She may lie as well but it is worth the chance of finding out the truth.

he wasn’t going to give up this friendship with her

Really, so his "friendship" with her is more important than your marriage?

You don't have to put up with him being friends with her. It can and IMO, should be a deal breaker.

There relationship is MORE than friends and they crossed the boundaries.

Demand NC with her and if he won't do it then you have your answer.

Be aware. By you finding the email he will most likely take this underground.

Your WH is not showing any accountability or remorse. You can't move forward with this other woman lurking around.

It's an affair. Emotional or physical - it's still cheating.

I found out the two guys “couldn’t make it.”
Bullsh*t. You know it, the guys were never intended to be there.

Stand strong. Look up the 180 in the healing library and don't buy into the BS.

You and your family deserve better.

Sorry you are here and hurting. Good luck.

((hugs and prayers))

[This message edited by 1Faith at 4:00 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

Lalagirl posted 9/26/2013 07:38 AM

thinmint, my FWH would not only flip out on me when I would "catch" him, but he came up with the craziest bullshit excuses...he went so far as to say (EA #1) that his nephew was using his phone to make calls. (My FWH was NEVER a liar in the past - it's amazing what the fog does)...and with OW #2, we were all friends, but when it started going EA, he was hiding things from me... (my long profile tells the whole sordid story).

The good news is, with IC/MC, we are reconciled. It was not easy and I had to take some pretty drastic measures to help him remove his head from his ass.

More hugs...please keep posting so we can help you through this.

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