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Newest Member: silenceisnotgold (46036)

User Topic: Conditions for Mediation
freelancer
♀ 36529
Member # 36529
Frustrated  Posted: 11:10 AM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, WH states that he wants us to meet with a mediator, and that now he would still like to leave the possibility of R on the table, but that either way the mediator would be able to help iron out a lot of the details. Below is an email he sent me this morning with his "conditions for mediation". I need to work on a response with my conditions. Any feedback you all can provide would be greatly appreciated. This whole thing is just too much for me. I haven't kept food down in a month now, and I feel like my stress level is getting worse.

And for the record, this doesn't sound like something coming from him. These conditions sound like they were crafted by someone else. I would really like to make it actionable that if OW#1 is still in the picture during this process (she obviously influences WH in a very negative way) that we will forego the mediation and go straight to lawyers.

Freelancer, here are my conditions for mediation:

I would need a schedule for regular time to be with the kids as well as calls for them in the event I am not able to see them on a given day, to amount to daily contact either physical or via video chat/telephone
I would need to iron out a budget with you, which we both adhere to, that will allow for us to pay our bills and both have money to live on, without requiring constant communication on the finances

In exchange for those concessions in the event of a mediation, I will:
1. Pay all fees for services incurred by mediator and requisite legal processes
2. Agree to a fair and reasonable alimony for an amount and duration we agree upon during the process
3. Agree to a child support in accordance with *our state* guidelines
4. Directly financially support you and the children throughout the mediation process and after until such time as you find employment
5. Agree to meet reasonable and fair preconditions for mediation and concessions you demand during the process


I don't want to cause you or our children or me any more pain in this matter.


Me: BS, 35
Him: WH, 35
3beautiful babies, 7, 3 and 4 months
DD1: 7/1/2012
OW#1: EA/PA for 14 months
OW#2: PA for 1.5 months
DD2: 9/17/2013 Back at it with OW#1 for 4 weeks.

Posts: 238 | Registered: Aug 2012
Nature_Girl
♀ 32554
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would think a miracle had occurred had I received any kind of communication like that. He's offering to pay your bills. He's offering to pay legal fees. He's offering spousal support. He's offering child support.

Most of us here can only dream of an alternate reality in which we received such offers.

The only thing that stands out to me as potential trouble would be the phone call thing. I think there needs to be a caveat about phone calls so that if a call is missed, you aren't charged with parental alienation. I've been down that road.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - DIVORCED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJgjyDFfJuU

Posts: 10153 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
dmari
♀ 37215
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((freelancer))))) It is next to impossible to deal with this when your heart is being ripped apart.

Have YOU seen a divorce attorney? If you haven't, then you don't truly know what you and your children are ENTITLED to and you need to have this information.

His comment about "... both have money to live one ..." makes me want to . He doesn't realize how expensive divorce is. It will drastically change both of your lifestyles and your childrens.

If there is a possibility of R, then why a mediator? Is he stringing you along hoping you will agree to his "conditions" then he can change his mind? What do YOU want?

"4. Directly financially support you and the children throughout the mediation process and after until such time as you find employment" So as soon as mediation is done, boom ~ he stops supporting you and the children? How long is he giving you to find employment? 3 weeks? 3 months? 1 year?

His "fair and reasonable" alimony and yours are NOT going to be the same. Whatever number he throws out there, will be insulting.

Do you have anyone IRL that can support you during this time? It is so damn hard to think clearly. Everything you decide now during this process, will effect you and your children for many many years to come.

So back to my first question, have you consulted with an attorney?


Me (BS): 43 Children: DD 19, DS 15
Divorced September 30, 2014
"It's always darkest before the dawn ..."

Posts: 2336 | Registered: Oct 2012
Undefinabl3
♀ 36883
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having conditions just to go to Mediation just screams "I want to have control of this whole process, so I am starting this out by making rules for YOU to abide by"

1. Pay all fees for services incurred by mediator and requisite legal processes

Ironically enough, if you divorce, chances are you can get him to pay for your legal fee's anyway.

2. Agree to a fair and reasonable alimony for an amount and duration we agree upon during the process

Again, something that can be gotten in court - just depends on how long you are willing to wait on it.

3. Agree to a child support in accordance with *our state* guidelines

Again, courts can give you this...I have a feeling though this one is more of a covering his ass part...since you may get MORE then the minimum he thinks you should get.


4. Directly financially support you and the children throughout the mediation process and after until such time as you find employment

This is probably the only thing worth going along with this crap. Since he doesn't have to help you out until he is court ordered too (PS, i would highly recommend a request to have his wages garnished if he is currently in a very stable job)

Its up to you if you want to do mediation, but he's just trying to keep control of the situation by using your fear against you.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit
Phone Find 11/21/14 - I can't even right now.

Posts: 1833 | Registered: Sep 2012
torn2bits
♀ 28376
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to agree that for him to put that he is going to pay this and that in writing is a good thing, however, he realizes he will have to pay that anyway via a court order so....

The main question for you is do you want to work on R?

I can tell you that divorce is very, very expensive and your lives will change forever.

Don't let him tell you the way this is going to go down. You need to decide what you want, then this will be a bit easier to manage.

Please take care of yourself. This process is very draining and your children need you healthy. Try to get some downtime and outlets to relieve your stress.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
Dreamboat
♀ 10506
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hugs)))

First and foremost, you need to see a L. Getting a L does not mean you cannot also go to mediation, it just means you have someone that you can trust on your side. You cannot trust this man. I think the only reason he wants to "leave the possibility of R on the table" is to string you along and get you to comply with whatever he wants. And if your gut tells you OW is still in the picture then she probably is and therefore there is no hope for R.

Considering his conditions, they are not unreasonable but the whole things comes across as pushy on the verge of bullying. Kinda like "You do this or else". But still, he is open to paying SS, paying legal fees, and support you until there is a court order. That is a good sign.

Here are some items that are missing:
* Cost of extra curricular activities for the kids; I suggest that you ask that they be split directly proportional to each of your incomes
* Medical/dental/eye insurance -- who carries the plan? And how will it be paid?
* Uncovered medical costs; I suggest that you ask that they be split directly proportional to each of your incomes
* Splitting of assets
* Splitting of debts

Additional items that you may want to include, especially if you have previously discussed these and they are/were important to you as a family
* College costs - how much do the parents pay and how much does the child take in student loans? And how do the parents plit the cost
* Car insurance - very expensive for a teenager, especially boys. Who's account will cover them and who will pay?
* Cell phones and computers -- they have pretty much become a necessity once a kid reaches high school
* Religious or cultural schooling

And finally, your home. If you own the home, can you afford to keep it? If you want to stay then you will need him to sign a quit claim deed. And he may require that you refinance in your name only. If you plan to sell then there are costs involved with that also. And if you are underwater with your mortgage, what will you do? All of that needs to be addressed.

You are stronger than you realize and you WILL get thru this. Try to eat or at least drink some protein shakes. Try to get some sleep and rest. Hug your kids often and allow them to put a smile on your face.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17695 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
HopeImOverIt
♀ 34517
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Short answer: my advice is to meet with a lawyer for a consult before you respond.

Long answer:
His email doesn't make sense to me based on my experience. A schedule for contact with children is something you work out DURING the mediation. "I won't negotiate with you in front of a mediator unless you first negotiate with me without the mediator?" Huh? If you guys could agree on everything just by the two of you talking, why have the expense of a mediator at all?

Also, once he's paying child support and alimony he will not be entitled to be involved in making a budget for you. That is the whole reason for a standardized state formula, to keep Exes from meddling in each other's financial decisions.

Mediation is an alternative method to achieving divorce. You don't need pre-conditions to do it, you just do it. Either person can pull out at any time if they aren't happy with how it's going. It's completely voluntary. Mediation is not at all the same as binding arbitration.

His mesage comes across like he's doing you a big favor by offering to mediate, but I get the sense that's what HE wants, I'd bet to save on legal expenses.

My Ex was eager to mediate as well, and HIS concession was to allow me to choose the mediator. He didn't try set any conditions on me.

Your STBX's "concessions" 2 and 3 are what you are going to get anyway in a regular divorce. For #4, you don't need him to "voluntarily" support you and the children during mediation/divorce, the court can order him to do so. The only thing he's offering to sweeten the pot is #1 assume all legal expenses.

And BTW I completely disagree that a mediator will be useful if you are going to R. In my experience mediators were trained as divorce lawyers and their purpose is to help people get divorced. There is simply no point in paying someone 200-300 an hour to listen to you two argue about how to split the 401K if you aren't in fact going to be splitting it.

My advice is to consider mediation only if YOU want to, not as a way to reward your STBX for being a "good boy" (holding out the possibility of R or staying away from the OW). My Ex and I chose to mediate simply to keep more of our money for our children and pay less to lawyers. It had nothing to do with me being happy with his behavior.


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 270 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
HopeImOverIt
♀ 34517
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


4. Directly financially support you and the children throughout the mediation process and after until such time as you find employment


This is probably the only thing worth going along with this crap. Since he doesn't have to help you out until he is court ordered

At least in my state people can and regularly do ask the court for temporary support orders. Google "temporary support your-state-name". I would not consider that offer a "favor", but what a lawyer would get me anyway.

This is why you need to talk to a lawyer so you know what you are legally entitled to and what actually IS a good offer.


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 270 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am kinda confused here.....

He's trying to mediate about going to mediation by discussing things that are the whole reason FOR going to mediation???? Huh?

If you can agree on this stuff between yourselves....why do you even NEED a mediator? You use a mediator when the two of you can't come up with a solution between yourselves. And then you use a judge when you can't come up with an agreement after using a mediator.

Find a L. Especially since there are kids involved. You don't have to retain the L in a full-blown manner.....and just because you have a L doesn't mean that you're destined for court or a nasty fight. Get advice about what you are LEGALLY entitled to and about what can reasonable expect in the other areas. And then do NOT make any definite decision without running any proposal past your L first to give you the pros/cons of it. Your new favorite words should become "I can't agree to that right now. Let me think about it for a bit."

Regardless, almost everything he wrote in there is either way too vague (what's regular? what's reasonable? what's fair?) or not even a matter of discussion (child support, for example). My response to him would be: "how about if we let the mediator work with us on these things? When can we schedule it?"

As for that ridiculous blurb about your budget....if he means your *future* budget, then I'm back to being confused. If you divorce, he thinks that he'll still have some kind of *say* about your budget? Uh,...no.

I can't put my finger on why, but what he wrote *bothers* me........

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 2:50 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8252 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Dreamboat
♀ 10506
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forgot one thing: Retirement -- in most states you are entitled to 1/2 of any retirement funds (401K, 403, IRA, pension) that he acquired while in the M. Money based accounts like 401K are pretty strait forward -- he just rolls over 1/2 of the money to you (more complicated than that, but that is the jist of it) Pensions are trickier because it is hard to put a value on something that he cannot access for another 20-30 years.


I can't put my finger on why, but what he wrote *bothers* me........

That is exactly how I feel. There is something very controlling about the tone.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17695 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
roughroadahead
♀ 36060
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's an idiot. In my state (and many others) much of that is either statutory/court rule based (like child support and even visitation if the parties don't agree) or so heavily litigated that absent extreme circumstances, a lawyer would be able to tell you exactly what you'd get (spousal support).

No need to negotiate any of that before you get to mediation. And please at least consult an attorney before going to mediation. A mediator doesn't give a rip whether what you get is fair, or would be what a judge would do. They just want the parties to reach an agreement. Agreeing to give you spousal and child support, for example, like he's doing you a favor, is bullshit because you're legally entitled to CS at the very least anyway.

Protect yourself before you go in by knowing what a fair deal is.

[This message edited by roughroadahead at 4:45 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 739 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Crescita
♀ 32616
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, September 26th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't put my finger on why, but what he wrote *bothers* me........

He is trying to have everything on his terms under the guise of nice, reasonable, and fair. It does sound that way doesn't it with how vague he is?

If he wants to play nice, play along, but don't agree to anything concrete without consulting a lawyer first and knowing your rights. Keep it vague like he does with your desire for everything to remain reasonable and fair. For the kids You hope that he can remain cordial and not take advantage of you as this is sure to impact both of your finances and time with the children.


“Happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue.” ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

Posts: 3578 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Softcentre
39166
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, September 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, so reading between his lines:

Freelancer, here are my conditions for mediation:

(he expects to set the agenda, not you)


I would need a schedule for regular time to be with the kids

(note the lack of 'we'. He wants the schedule on his terms and isn't thinking of you or the children)

as well as calls for them in the event I am not able to see them on a given day, to amount to daily contact either physical or via video chat/telephone

(daily contact. Really? How old are your children? Because if they're small, he's asking to get you on the phone every day, no matter what you may be doing, incl holidays etc...and no offer to reciprocate when he has them.)

I would need to iron out a budget with you,

(note the emphasis - that he needs it, as if you are an obstacle to this and note the passive aggressive bit about sticking to it...but demanded by him, as if you wouldn't)

which we both adhere to, that will allow for us to pay our bills and both have money to live on, without requiring constant communication on the finances

(note the little blow about constant communication, as if you are hassling him)

In exchange for those concessions in the event of a mediation,

(he's expecting you to make those concessions, but is NOT guaranteeing that there will be mediation. He expects you to do this beforehand!)

I will:
1. Pay all fees for services incurred by mediator and requisite legal processes
2. Agree to a fair and reasonable alimony for an amount and duration we agree upon during the process
3. Agree to a child support in accordance with *our state* guidelines
4. Directly financially support you and the children throughout the mediation process and after until such time as you find employment
5. Agree to meet reasonable and fair preconditions for mediation and concessions you demand during the process

(umm, he'd have to do most of this anyway. You're not really gaining much but he expects a lot in return. Also the 'reasonable and fair' comment is unnecessary, except as a little passive aggressive blow insinuating that you might not be fair and reasonable, especially if you disagree with him and his conditions)


I don't want to cause you or our children or me any more pain in this matter.

(So why do the preconditions then? Why the little digs? Really, thisis the typical passive aggressive, 'hey, I'm the good guy here' comment )



Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' - passive aggressive, tt'ing, gaslighting...multiple EA's with different women (1 'proven') and at least 1 PA

Took a while, but I like the me I am, without him.

"Until God opens the next do


Posts: 1117 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
gonnabe2016
♀ 34823
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, September 27th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A big part of why this communication bothers me is because it shows that he (quite obviously) knows JACK-SHIT-NOTHING about how the *getting divorced* process works......and so it comes off as incredibly insulting and extremely patronizing. Kinda like a "you just sit back and let me figure this out, FreeLancer, and if you don't go along with the *genius* plan that I work out, then you're not being fair and reasonable because *I* get to tell you what's fair and what's reasonable."

That message is totally lacking any type of *cooperative* language.

Take some time and look into how the divorce process works in your state. Information/knowledge equals powers. Where I live, (as I said earlier), if we can't decide this stuff on our own -- we HAVE to go through court-ordered mediation. It's not even an option. Even if we know that we won't agree -- we HAVE to go at least once before the court will even consider allowing a trial. And the judge will be pissed if we went into mediation without any intent to at least *attempt* to reach a settlement. Maybe your stbx just worded it wrong, but it seems that he thinks mediation is *optional* -- and maybe it is where you are, but maybe it isn't.

If it isn't optional, then his grand-standing about his conditions to even go to mediation is a waste of time (his and yours).


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8252 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Topic Posts: 14

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