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Emptyshelldad posted 9/29/2013 06:54 AM

I sent this this morning at like 4am her time (I work in north Dakota so I'm often up for many hours on end)

I'm interested in any ones thoughts on it.
I'm having a really hard time. I know that I love you. I know in love our daughters. But I don't know if I can keep going in this. The clinical psychology belief is that "affairs are meant to end marriages". I believe that you're lack of knowing why you did it in the first place is because you don't want this relationship or me any more. So your subconscious led you to engage in behavior so damaging to me that it knew I'd never be able to get over the hurt and betrayal, and thus, would end the relationship. That's why you don't really know why you did it. and the fact that you haven't done the things I said I needed in order to make this work, further supports that your real sub conscious desire is to finally be on your own in order to live the single life you always desired. You can go dancing, clubbing, and have as many flings as you want. You'll finally have the party years you so missed in your twenties. And I won't be here to hold you back.

This is a difficult decision for me, and I've struggled with it greatly. I never wanted my children to grow up in a broken home. Now they will always think that if they had been better kids, mommy and daddy would still be together.....and that kills me........so much so that I am sobbing while I write this. But even as the tears roll freely down my face, I know this marriage isn't working.
So I think we should separate, and this kills me. But the more I fight against it, the reality is that the things you did during the affair, and the things you didn't do afterwards, may just be a deal breaker for me.

I haven't been the same as you well know, and I don't think I ever will be the same man I was before. And this new man....is much colder, with a heart made as much of steel as it is with flesh. It's time to put this old Chevy to the junkyard. I'm sorry I'm not stronger. If I was, I could make this work.

Please don't mention this to the girls, as I want to be there when we discuss it with them.

Loving you always,
Loki

SisterMilkshake posted 9/29/2013 07:14 AM

(((Empty)))

Blobette posted 9/29/2013 07:29 AM

God, that must have hurt so much to write. My heart goes out to you.

IslandGirl18 posted 9/29/2013 07:56 AM

(((Empty)))

I'm so sorry. I understand where you're coming from. Separating is difficult. You may get some clarity, too.

topperoff22 posted 9/29/2013 08:11 AM

You poured your heart out to her. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I am praying for your situation..though prayer is hard for me these days. :( I hope you find some peace in all of this...I know I sure as hell can't. :(

topperoff22 posted 9/29/2013 08:11 AM

You poured your heart out to her. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I am praying for your situation..though prayer is hard for me these days. :( I hope you find some peace in all of this...I know I sure as hell can't. :(

sisoon posted 9/29/2013 10:38 AM

Empty, I feel your pain. I really wish you hadn't sent this, though.

I think you've misread the finding of clinical psychology. I strongly urge you to get a copy of NOT "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I haven't seen any other book on surviving infidelity that comes close to NJF in being based on evidence.

I get your pessimism - long distance R is extremely difficult, but it's till possible.

I wish you had written more from the POV of what you want and need, rather than relying on experts.

You raise 3 issues, I think. First, you're afraid your W doesn't want to be M; instead you think she wants to party. Are you sure this is so, 'cause if you've misread her, you may be throwing away a potentially very good thing?

Second, you're afraid your W doesn't want to be M to you. Let me tell you, you're not alone. That's the big one for me, too, and I'm almost 3 years out, in an R that's going very well. But her behavior over time will give you the answer you need, and IMO it's too early to throw in the towel.

Third, you want you and your W to know why she cheated. I'm in a minority on that - I don't care why my W betrayed me; I just want her never to betray me again, and she can do that without knowing why she cheated in the first place. I just don't want my W to spend endless years analyzing and analyzing again some crap, when what she really needs to do is to change.

Forget about understanding why she did it - you never will. She can tell you, but it just won't make sense to you. Ever. Just sayin'....

It will take time to work through these issues, and these probably aren't the only ones.

But I think you'll have more success by asking questions directly and by asking for a commitment to work things out than by basing your decision on some theory that doesn't hold water and on the loneliness of working so far from your W and kids.

Can you call your W and talk and maybe put a hold on your decision, assuming she wants to R? Better yet, can you Skype with her?

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:43 AM, September 29th (Sunday)]

tooanalytical posted 9/29/2013 10:54 AM

I thought it was well written and the love you still have for her as well as the pain comes through. I would wait to see her actions and stay 180 unless you see major changes in actions. I don't think I would quickly grovel and tell her you "put a hold" on the decision. It makes you look weak, especially if she is not doing the things needed to R.

20WrongsVs1 posted 9/29/2013 13:07 PM

I read this as if my BH wrote it, and ITA with sisoon:

I wish you had written more from the POV of what you want and need.

What do you want, ESD? What I'm hearing you say is that you're done, and that there's nothing WW can do anymore to change your path. The only thing you explicitly say you "want" is to be present when the news is broken to the girls.

Are you really done? Or, is this letter (perhaps subconsciously) a last-ditch attempt to motivate WW to fight for your M?

I'm sorry I'm not stronger. If I was, I could make this work.

When I see you blame yourself like that, I feel so sad.

bionicgal posted 9/29/2013 13:30 PM

I also disagree about the clinical psychology "finding." There are scores of reasons people have affairs, and many of them are people who don't want, and don't end up getting, a divorce. Not sure why you think that? Some may want to end the marriage as it has been, but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax, and ,ay be doable and desireable for both parties.

Emptyshelldad posted 9/30/2013 09:49 AM

I wish I had posted this here first to get your guys opinions before sending it. Really feeling foolish about not having thought about getting other trusted opinions before sending it.

Also feeling pretty lame that I didn't do this in person. I should have waited and talked to her about it in person, I mean this is my marriage we are talking about.....and my kids and I chose to send this when I won't be home for another three damned weeks.....wtf was I thinking!!!

She responded obviously. And I'll get to that in a second.

A for your questions, ill try to answer them but I'm on a well site right now typing this on my iPad (wow what an age we live in)
Topper, blobette, and milkshake.....thank you so much for caring. It helps to know others feel what your going through.

Sissoon I have told her numerous times what I wanted and need over the last two years and she has made virtually no effort. She deleted all of the text messages in a hidden text message app that hid your messages from your spouse designed for cheaters and thus I told her I wanted a log of the texts because she remembered them all very well, but I wanted it written out. She has every excuse in the book why she can't get this done. No time, etc etc.....even though she found time to spend hours on end loolong up lingerie for me to buy her so she could model for other ,man. I also.wanted a timeline of events and the affair.....also never happened.

I feel like asking for these again is pointless and I should haves had them long ago if she cared about my recovery at all. I'm tired of having to walk her through this, when she should be devoting at least as much energy to me as she did to douche bag for so many months.

The why to me is very important as she needs to know how to prevent it in the future. There is just a total lack of effort on her part.

Also she lot about 65 pounds for this prick while I had her and loved her atn200lbs for over ten years, hearing every reAson why she couldn't lose the weight (I always bought junk food, I took her out to eat to often, I etc I etc, she needed new workout clothes, gym merberships etc)
Then as soon as she started talking to him, she instantly overcame all that and started working out in our bedroom ( in a space aboutn6x3). And she made healthy eating choices and ate right.....all of a sudden with the proper motivation she had no trouble. Now that he's gone now, she has begun putting it back on again. Gone are the healthy habits that she portrayed for him. And I've voiced this concern that I can't be seen as the guy who's wive became a smoking hottie for her boyfriend but her husband had to put up with him just not being worth the same effort as boyfriend to everyone who saw her. And for those who might ask yeah I'm in great physical shape.

20 - you raise some good points, and to be honest I'm not sure if I'm done or if subconscious just wants something else.

I will say to clarify, is that affairs are the perfect way to end a marriage because of all the dynamics that go into it, so that more of what I believe they mean by it than it always being meant to kill the marriage.

Her response was about her being so sorry, she thought she was doing everything she could, blah blah blah. She was crying and wanted the old me back.....to which I replied that I believe that guy is gone and I am all that remains.

I'm just the old classic Chevy in great shape, mint even....but lacking that new car smell....and she went and test drove the new car.....plastic and cheap with no real soul....but she wanted it.....and only when she was told that she didn't qualify for the new one, did she seek to make do with her old faithful classic........until it got t boned and now is in tatters.

Emptyshelldad posted 9/30/2013 10:29 AM

I just emailed this to her in reply to an email she sent me this morning

Oh my love I'm sorry. Three years ago, many things were different. It seems like I'm looking at someone else's life through a foggy window when I think of my life back then. I do want to be close to you. I.......it's just......this betrayal.......I can't get past it. And that is painful for me because I foolishly thought we'd be together forever....like a story you never hear anymore of how dad met mom when he was seventeen and they fell in love and have never looked back. An inspiration for the whole world. Kinda cheesy huh? But that was me.......a love struck kid who never looked back. Id still like to help you in any way I can. I dont want us to not be close.....so so close that people may even think its very weird. I guess if I can't be an example in love, then we can be an example in being split up. Though I gotta be honest even as I write that.....I would rather be the example of love......true true true love..... Not what people think true love is......but what true love, true deep love really is. Love, Loki

sisoon posted 9/30/2013 10:55 AM

Empty,

I'm confused. In your response to me, you sound done, but if you're done, I don't understand why you call her 'my love'.

That makes me think you're not done, you're just stymied by your feelings. That says to me you need help working your feelings out - which to me means IC. Your feelings are your issue, not hers.

If you're done, you're done, and you have my support.

If you're not really done, I urge you to get some help working out your issues. If you throw in the towel too soon, you could regret it for a looooong time.

demos posted 9/30/2013 15:09 PM

I'll say what I think sisoon is thinking. Your reply is manipulative. I get the sense you want to punish her by telling her about the true love that she has lost. If you have made the decision to separate then dealing with her in this way won't make it any easier.

Just my opinion.

Emptyshelldad posted 9/30/2013 18:59 PM

sisoon - the problem I think is that I am a very honest, transparent person with her. I don't position my words to gain a specific response, nor do I edit my thoughts, hence the whole my love thing. I call her that because that is what she is, but as stated, the betrayal may just be too much for love alone to fix. I don't want to be the couple that hates each other because they split up. I want to be the couple that is still close even though they can't be together any longer.

demos - my reply may seem manipulative to you based on what you have available to draw such a conclusion, however her response, which I didn't post due to.respect for her privacy would have helped a great deal to see why I replied the way I did. I basically responded to her second email with my thoughts on her thoughts she shared. she was asking me about our love and what happened to it etc.

so I guess the issue may be that perhaps manipulation should be what I'm doing, instead of total honest and , open transparency. I may be sending off really mixed signals because if you just let the thoughts pour out of your head, then you may not get the course of action you desire, which is what I always thought manipulation was....modification or positioning of certain actions or verbiage designed to illicit a specific predetermined course of action in another. so if anything my replies may be confusing to some because I'm not "manipulating" enough.

though the word manipulation carries with it a very negative connotation, I guess one could argue that a lot of what we do as betrayed spouses is manipulating by the definition above. for example the 180.... doing what we believe will help our situation most even if we may feel like trying to chase our wayward spouse instead. I've always taken issue with that word as is usually used in some negative light, when in fact all that we do in life when interacting with others could be argued to be manipulative in is nature. Hmmmm...something to think about I suppose, but I digress.
I welcome more responses with advice on whether or not my responses are being too honest for my own good. or hers for that matter.
thank you again for the replies.

sisoon posted 9/30/2013 22:03 PM

Man, you're sending very mixed messages. If you're done, you're saying it way different from the way other people who are done say it.

I want to be the couple that is still close even though they can't be together any longer.

Response: Pipe dream. How can you achieve that outcome?

Alternate response: I think you're not being clear with yourself. I might simply not understand what you're saying, but I really think you're doing a job on yourself, and that's leading to doing a job on your W. and on your M. JMO, of course.