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User Topic: Intimacy
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK...I hope I don't come off sounding like a jerk because if I have learned anything through all of this it is that I know nothing.

Anyway, I seem to read a lot of threads about couples being intimate during the recovery process. I realize that different couples are at different stages of recovery and varying amounts of time have passed for each couple.

I wanted to get some feedback regarding my situation. We are 10 weeks out and my BS can't stand for me to even touch her, much less be physically intimate. In these 10 weeks I have yet to be able to hug her, kiss her, hold her hand, put my arm around her or sleep in the same bed. If I even try to put my hand on her knee when I talk to her she pulls away.

This is hard because I want to show her affection and that I care about her. It's not like I'm trying to grope her, I just want to initiate some touch but she is having none of it.

BS's, can you tell me your experience with this and what your thoughts were during the first few months after Dday?

Edit to apologize for incorrectly spelling Intimacy in the thread title. System won't let me fix it.

[This message edited by 1bigidiot79 at 9:38 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
jo2love
♀ 31528
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fixed your title.

This is all new for your BS. When R started, I would want a hug, but then the OW would pop into my thoughts. Wanting him to comfort me when I was hurting and the fact that he caused the hurting, was very confusing. Keep reassuring her that you are there for her. It gets easier as time passes. Have you talked to her about it?


Posts: 36479 | Registered: Mar 2011
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't really brought it up because she has made her feelings clear. She has stated that she feels this way and I was trying to be supportive and told her that it was O.K. that she felt that way and that I understood. This was about a month ago.

I totally understand that it must be confusing to her and that she wouldn't want to just go back to the way things were. However, I am somewhat concerned that I am getting nothing from her. We went out to a movie with her friend and another couple last night. I felt I was invited just to keep the others from asking questions. She would speak to me but was very distant and mainly tried to avoid any contact with me.

I guess I am just jealous of some others here because I would love to hold her and tell her how much I love her. I want so much to be able to just hold her hand and squeeze it tight. I feel like there is a major connection in these moments that we are missing out on. I hope she gets to the point that she will let me because I think it might help her see how much I care and that all these things I've been telling her aren't just empty words.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
jo2love
♀ 31528
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you seeing an MC or IC? If not, it may be worth looking into. Maybe try writing her a letter. Just pour out how you feel for her, what actions you are doing to change, that you are willing to do what it takes to earn her trust back, ask what else you can do to help her, etc... She is on a crazy, scary rollercoaster ride of emotions. She may have put up walls to prevent further hurt. Keep being consistent with your words and actions. Sending you strength and hope for better days.

Posts: 36479 | Registered: Mar 2011
Williesmom
♀ 22870
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Give her time. For a long time after the A was revealed, I wanted to scrub my entire body with bleach. The thought of that whore made me feel dirty by association.

She is thinking that she wasn't good enough for you before, why is she now good enough?

Be patient and steady.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7820 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jo2love, you are right about her putting up walls. She is very independent and strong willed and right now she is having none of what I'm saying. I am doing everything I know to do and doing it again and again. I started IC last week and she is in IC as well with the hope of us going to MC eventually.

I feel like long term we are on the right track. I'm just trying to navigate the waters of the storm until we get there. All of this is new to me so I like to read what others felt as they went through it. I wish the touching would come back because it would make me feel a lot better for one but ultimately I think it would be good for her as well to show her I care and I'm here for her.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
TrulySad
♀ 39652
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been the BW, and am now a BGF. I can tell you from experience that every time she sees you touching her, she is probably seeing you wanting someone else. Maybe now she associates touch, intimacy, and sex as something you fantasized about with other women. And to her, it may mean she believes she was never what you wanted.

I've read your other posts. Porn is something I've had to deal with, with the men in my life. It's crushing. No matter how much of our society tries to justify it, it's wrong in my book, and deadly to relationships.

Maybe there is a chance your BW is feeling she's up against an impossible task. How can she fight something that our world condones and pushes. I know I've felt that, and in a way, still do.

If you talked to my WBF (Nogoodap1), he'd tell you I've spent hours with him, explaining how our society shouldn't have committed relationships. How I feel like we should just be with one person till we get bored, or another comes along. How we should just cave and ALL of us view porn, us women included, and that way EVERYONE, men and women, can experience how it feels to know our partner gets off to other people.

Do I actually believe in this way? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I LOVE being in a committed relationship. I love only loving him. And just once in my life, I'd love to know what it's like to be with a man who only wants me. But how do I fight for this, when our world pushes for the oposite???

Right now, I imagine your wife is still coming to grips with it. You have a child, so I know she's caught up with work, raising a little one, the house, and life in general. She has so much she's already dealing with, and maybe she's putting this away because she can't cope with it yet. I've been there, done that.

You see, what we really want is for this to all be a bad dream. We want it to not be true. When she thinks about it, she has to make sense of it all. And to us, we can't imagine wanting another man. For her to comprehend you wanting to watch porn, and do whatever with it, she feels that's what you wanted. And when we face that, we are faced with our whole relationship being a fake.

That doesn't mean it actually was a fake. It's just how we see it. Especially in the beginning.

I've read other's here mentioning "Every Man's Battle". READ IT. PLEASE. My XWH did go to that three day seminar. And while we ended in divorce, I can honestly tell you it's a wonderful program for men who truly want to walk the right path. But you have to want it.

As far as touch, and intimacy, talk with her. She's written to you. Have you written to her??? Explain to her, your side. Tell her how her touch makes you feel. How much she means to you, and that you're there for her, how ever long it takes. Tell her you want to hold her, for her. And when you walk down that hall at night, and you start to cry because you're heading to the spare room...maybe walk back to her room and let her know and see your pain.

I can't tell you how many times I wished the man in my life would swallow his pride, and walk back in, beg, sincerely cry at my side, and show me, SHOW ME, how he truly was feeling.

I don't know if this is what she wants. She probably doesn't know what she wants (except for this to be a bad dream). But if you really love her, don't give up.

And my last thought is IC. Find a good one, and go. Make sure they are one who won't justify porn, but instead, sees it as a real problem.

I wish you both better days...

[This message edited by TrulySad at 2:13 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 481 | Registered: Jun 2013
SheHatesMe
♂ 40425
Member # 40425
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((1bigidiot79)))

I feel and understand your pain. I am experiencing the same from my BGF. I would love to hold her, touch her, and comfort her when she cries. She's even expressed that she sometimes just wants to be held but cannot doesn't feel safe with me so she doesn't ask. We've had a couple good days where I am grateful for the opportunity to hold her and touch her but those do not last long. I believe it's her means of protection and quite understandable. I fully understand her hesitation but have to admit it, it does hit a nerve when I'm suddenly back on the couch and she doesn't want to even look at me any longer.

Keep doing what you're doing. My BGF has said that I'm doing what we've read needs to be done but just cannot feel for me. I can only hope that it's not permanent. I am not gonna let this stop me from being as supportive and comforting as possible. Hang in there. Keep speaking the words, writing letters, texts, phone calls. My advice that I need to really work hard on is not to get frustrated with her timeline. And should you have any moment where you can touch, hug or hold her, relish it with all you have but do not get frustrated or upset if she pulls back away. Stay patient.


WBF slowly seeing progress

Posts: 44 | Registered: Aug 2013
1bigidiot79
♂ 40557
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You see, what we really want is for this to all be a bad dream. We want it to not be true. When she thinks about it, she has to make sense of it all. And to us, we can't imagine wanting another man. For her to comprehend you wanting to watch porn, and do whatever with it, she feels that's what you wanted. And when we face that, we are faced with our whole relationship being a fake.

This hit the nail on the head for where she is at. Thanks so much for the thoughtful replies. I know I am not perfect in my attempts to help her but I can assure you I am working my tail off. I am not upset with her at all, I am just trying to figure all of this out and see how others dealt with and felt about things as they went through this.

I think the one word that I've heard today that I cannot forget is steady. Every minute of every hour of every day I have to be steady...not too high and not too low but just steady and keeping at it.

I have shown her a side of me that I don't think she even knew existed as far as me pouring my heart out to her through tears and heartfelt apologies. I think she senses that I am for real now but it's just going to take time for her to come to grips with it and make sure I'm committed to it.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 174 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
TrulySad
♀ 39652
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so wrapped up in my own feelings about it all, I didn't think to include how I/we deal/dealt with this issue of porn. Sorry!

In a way, dealing with porn is different than dealing with infidelity. In my book, it is infidelity. But how do you deal with it, when it's EVERYWHERE? It's at stores, on the tv, in movies, on magazines, on the internet, in our junk email, on our phones, and even at work. And what happens is for many of us women, once we understand how porn has affected the man we are with, it changes how life unfolds for us.

I can only speak from my own experience, but my WBF did have the courage to admit to me that the porn led to him viewing the women he came across during the day, in a sexual way. So he had sexual thoughts of women at work, on the street, in shops, etc. That meant to me, that no matter where we went together, once I learned this, I now saw ALL women as the OW.

It ruined ALL outings. We couldn't go to a restaurant without me thinking he was fantasizing about the lady next to us. Or even if he glanced at someone running on the road, right away my thoughts told me he just saw her naked. It was an impossible environment to survive in.

He's been great in changing so much of his behavior. So if you need some suggestions, with how to deal, and what to do...these are things that are slowly working for us.

1. He no longer has internet on his phone.
2. His phone is never alone with him, except at work.
3. He says he doesn't want to masterbate. He did a couple of times, but according to him, never with porn.
4. He only pulls out his laptop with me by his side. And if I have to leave him home alone, I can always bring the battery.
5. We speak about the subject often. And he sees the hurt it's caused. He admits he wouldn't want me wanting to tune into other naked men, for my sexual needs. (sidenote: most men tend not to admit this).
6. We try and stay away from places where young girls tend to walk around half naked, and wanting to be noticed. (Young Crowd Bars, the beach, etc). This isn't because we're just avoiding the problem. The reality is, he's admitted it's smarter and easier, and it's like a drug. The longer you stay away, the less appealing it becomes.
7. When we are out in public, he tries to focus on me, and our job at hand...or fun between just the two of us. If a woman walks by, he looks at me instead.
8. He changes the channel when a commercial comes on with almost naked chicks.
9. And he looks away from the screen if we are watching a scene that ends up showing t&a.
10. When he's at work and one of the guys does ANOTHER inappropriate thing regarding some woman, he tells me he walks away. I have to trust him on this, but my hope is he's being honest.

These are just a handfull of things. The bottom line is its a completely different way of living.

One of the things I realized a while back, and your BW may eventually see is...our society raises our young boys/men to view porn, and treat it as normal. It used to be that society tried to "teach" the spouses that the issue was us being insecure, NOT the viewer being unfaithful. I learned to understand that if it made me feel bad, hurt and betrayed, it was wrong. So it needed to stop.

What I came to understand, and it helped me with dealing, is that my son was growing up in this society. And I had to give my WBF the same understanding I am giving my son.

Society has influenced them and how they viewed women, porn, and our bodies. Now it's my turn to see if I can get them to understand how it really is. And it's up to them to chose the way they want to live their life.

It's not a quick fix, and since we have to remain in today's time, porn will always be there. As a woman, I have learned that it's not only hard on me. I see it's hard on you, for other reasons. But this didn't happen over night.

Dealing with it, is going to take some serious time and commitement on your end. And for your wife, if she's anything like me, she's trying to work through this whole mess, and grasp what it means for her future.


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 481 | Registered: Jun 2013
sailorgirl
♀ 38162
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I may be way off here, but 10 weeks with absolutely no touch and separate beds seems to be outside the average range.

On d-day, when I told fWH that I knew everything, he broke down. He was so remorseful. It was the most natural thing in the world for me to hold him. He was suffering, aching. When humans are suffering, we need touch.

We spooned in bed all night. We were holding on to each other and holding on to our marriage--literally.

A roller coaster time followed. I welcomed his touch unless I was triggering. Then, I needed him to listen, take responsibility, and apologize. I think the HB was a big part of our healing. All those feel good, bonding, peaceful chemicals gave us a break from the hard work and pain.

Part of her withdrawal may be protective walls, and part of it may be punishing you. It's normal for her to be angry, but she should get it out. Not suppress it because then it sneaks out in passive aggressive ways like this:

We went out to a movie with her friend and another couple last night. I felt I was invited just to keep the others from asking questions. She would speak to me but was very distant and mainly tried to avoid any contact with me

You guys have kids, right? What are they going to think of the coldness?

Is she at all open to IC or MC? Did she ever withhold affection before d-day? It's hard to understand how she could just switch off her warmth for you, especially for so long and with you being so remorseful. Do you guys talk about the infidelity and how R is going?

Has she expressed her anger to you in words? What she's doing seems like it could be a form of revenge, and that's not healthy. On the other hand, if she's not willing to examine her actions and motivations and talk to you, you may have to wait her out.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 4:55 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
iwillNOT
♀ 40605
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am only 7 weeks out and my reaction to touch/intimacy so far has been different than hers, however - the biggest thing I need from my BH is for him to be my rock, to be steady. I need to feel that if I need to cry, talk, rage, want to be touched or not, want to be away from him, whatever - he will take it and absorb it and stay steadfast and loving and remorseful.

If she is unable to accept physical love and comfort right now -What else can you do to show her love, that she is able to receive at this point? Flowers, notes, house projects or cleaning, watch the kiddos and give her a break, texts, her favorite treat left as a surprise? Go overboard. Really put yourself out there. Take care of her first, always, and on your own initiative without being asked. Lots and lots of verbal expressions of I am sorry, I made a horrible choice, i love you so much, I was so wrong, etc etc - I literally told my WH I need to hear that every day, sincerely. Every time I hear it and know it is heartfelt a tiny sliver of my heart comes back to life.


Have you read the Love Languages book that is frequently talked about on here? It's still on my list but sounds promising. Maybe it would help.

I wish you both healing and peace.


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 514 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
GraceisGood
♀ 17686
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I am just jealous of some others here because I would love to hold her and tell her how much I love her. I want so much to be able to just hold her hand and squeeze it tight. I feel like there is a major connection in these moments that we are missing out on. I hope she gets to the point that she will let me because I think it might help her see how much I care and that all these things I've been telling her aren't just empty words.

Another injustice in this all IMO, is that we are on different time tables during R.

My H became infatuated with me after D-day, like he was seeing me for the first time and I was all WOW to him, like being in High School again ya know. He was so relieved to have his secrets gone, life was GOOOOOD for him, he had already dealt with his infidelity and was ready to live in freedom.

I on the other hand could not enjoy that kind of attention at that time. I still held his hand, we still were "intimate", I let him hug me, etc, but it was all just for him, I did not NEED to be touched by him at that time, it was extremely difficult, but I was able to see it from his POV so I "understood" even if it was not what I would have liked. (I could use some of that being his WOW now, that would be nice, but I missed my chance to enjoy it when it was there because I was too busy reeling from it all).

I an coming up on being 6 years out, I have to say that 10 weeks out is a short short time, really it is, there is sooooo much to process and of course each situation is different and some BS have way more to process than others, and each BS is different in how they process, their personality, foo, current life stresses (aside from the infidelity) and other things all play a role in the time it takes to process and work through things.

In regard to what I bolded in your quote above, it is admirable that you want her to feel, see, understand, realize, how much you care, but you might need to change your tactic from a way that you enjoy showing that to a way in which she really can and does receive. If her love language is physical touch, then what I just said is moot, but if it is not, then perhaps work on finding ways to communicate that are HER language.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3472 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
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