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So I've only known about the A for three 1/2 weeks...but I was able to calmly point out manipulative behaviour that the OW has/was doing through that time. WH finally told me the whole story five days ago, and he's been NC since.

They met when he started with a new softball team this Aug. It was brief, but intense. He refused to see some of her behaviour initially, defending her to me. Then he started finding the truths in what I'd said. He told the guy in charge of the team (lets call him Bob) that he was NC with her and because the OW had caused major turmoil in a different team they had over a different relationship with a teammate, Bob had warned the OW that if it happened again, she was off this team.

So he kicked her off the team.

This had nothing to do with Bob's girlfriend (lets call her Sue), who stayed out of it. Sue is friends with the OW. She didn't take sides and made it clear that whatever was going on was between Bob, OW and my WH. So Sue, staying neutral and making no comments on any of this, asked the OW to bbsit her two year old, so Sue could play ball, which the OW agreed to. Right before Sue went to drop him off, the OW said 'oh oops, decided I don't want to bbsit him, because I don't want anything to do with the ball team'. So low and mean spirited - especially because Sue regularly picks the OW's child up from school when she is busy working or what not. Sue was hurt by this, and told WH that the OW was just being a huge victim with all of this and not owning any of her behaviour or part in the A.

Which is exactly what I told WH she'd do.

I then looked him in the eye and told him that I guess he didn't know her as well as he thought he did and that THIS was the woman he had decided to have a relationship with. I didn't do it angrily, but I made a calm point of it. He thought nothing she could do was wrong when he first came out to me - was heavily in the fog then. Now he's finding out that is definitely NOT the case.

Vindication. It can be sweet.

I sometimes think it's even better when other's, outside the marriage, see how manipulative the OW is. I'm so glad for you, that "Sue" got to see this.

I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg. She sounds like the type of whore who is probably on that softball team for the attention from the men, regardless of marital status. Bravo to the guy in charge for giving her the boot!!!

I've known many women who claim to soooo be into the things men like: shooting, football, racing, poker, fishing, etc... and then show up in booty shorts, full make up job, hair perfect, and wanna play the "silly me, can you heeeeelp me" card .

So many guys are stupid enough to fall for it. They actually think it's "cute". I swear if I hear one more man (to include mine) say some chic was cute because she played helpless and sweet, I'm gonna vomit. All she is, is good at manipulating, and some men are dumb enough to fall for it.

I've known many women who claim to soooo be into the things men like: shooting, football, racing, poker, fishing, etc.

AP did that to FWH. Made him think that it was all into snowmobiling and was experienced driving one. FWH had a genius idea to have AP go on the long snowmobiling weekend that his BF had planned. AP soon showed that it was clueless about snowmobiling. The whole weekend was a bust with FWH coming down with an illness for most of the weekend. He still fucked it, though!

eta: What did your WH say to your calm statement?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:26 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

So my fWH got his realization if how in sweet and not innocent his bitch was... When I received a text from her saying she was feeling threatene ,scared and harassed by my calls and text telling her to stay the Fuck away from my H. Duh bitch he is married you are lucky to still be alive..She wrote all these phrases that were bordering litigation.
I showed my H and he looked at me with a ? I said is this your sweet innocent gf.. He said I don't really know anything about her I can't believe she's saying any if that. I
I could not help it but I was laughing so much because he was in shock at her behaviour. Too funny she was just your fuck buddy stupid.

@ TS
Touché I hate those women that play the helpless card. Why are you even playing sports.
Stupid Bitches

eta: What did your WH say to your calm statement?

He said he was shamed, that he really didn't know her and he didn't know 'what he was thinking'.

I know what he was thinking. He was thinking here he could be the hero, rescue her, be held up on a pedestal, etc. Only it was all smoke and mirrors and he was a dumbass for falling for it. He's said that too.

He's got a lot of work ahead of him. I have work too - for one really sticking up for myself and not playing the mind games that allowed him to ignore the huge hole in him that has been there from childhood. He has to learn how to self validate rather than running all over the place looking for it. Not healthy.

He said he was shamed, that he really didn't know her and he didn't know 'what he was thinking'.

Now that right there is some sweet vindication. I am glad your WH admitted that.

Soooo, just a question. Why is WH talking to other people about his AP? You do realize that that is not NC.

One of the reasons WS went back to the OW in my case was because he would not believe the "lies everyone was saying about her". She played the part of the victim. She acted like her husband screwed around on her, she was faithful, he verbally abused her, she was in love with WS and never "did anything like this before"

Once it was out in the open and everyone knew about the affair and who it was with (thank you, FB, for letting me get the word out!)

Everyone told him what a slut she was known to be. She regularly slept with other people, had an open marriage, and had no problem throwing herself on anyone that would give her attention.

WS went back to her partly because he felt bad for her because he thought her STBXH was spreading lies about her and HE really knew her and HE really knew she wasn't like that.

So he went back. And he asked her about it all. And the idiot actually, for the first time in her life, told the truth.

Guess she thought he was stuck with her now and she also thought she would "come clean" with it now so it could be a "real" relationship. ??

WH EAP was "helping" him with his troubled marriage!! when I found out about A I told him she wants you and she wants my life trust me I know what women are like. He of course denied kept saying she is my friend and I help her with things around her house etc.

When the shit hit the fan guess what.....I had called it right. She started texting what a bitch I was. Why didn't he leave me, they could have a great life together and on and on! He stood there like an idiot with his mouth hanging open, stuttering...but it's not like that she's my friend why is she saying these things. I just laughed and told him he is a stupid idiot then walked away. I am letting him grovel his way back.

I didn't realize that was a part of NC, doesitgetbetter, but thanks for pointing that out. I did some soul searching on how I felt about all that and for him and I right now this is working. If anything, the brief conversation about her (and on his side it was to apologize to 'Sue' for putting her in this situation) reinforced why he was in error.

On top of this we're in a conundrum. He needs to feel responsibility, guilt and to really look at his actions. If he covers it all up and avoids talking about it he may be more tempted to keep it that way. If he's 'out' to people and held accountable for his actions (which he has been so far) hopefully that will help him really address the root issues here, which is really crippling self esteem amongst other things. He won't ever be able to really get beyond this stuff until the discomfort of his present is motivation enough to face the pain of his past. So far, it has been.

Maybe this won't work and he'll take one more step over the line. In that case, he knows he's out of here. If that's the case, then it is.

I really do appreciate your advice though - this is such a strange and overwhelming thing to find myself in and there is a whole bunch of issues that I haven't yet the hindsight to see fully. :)