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Am I naive to believe his story

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lost80 posted 10/3/2013 04:51 AM

I'm new on here, have been reading through all the posts and finding them so helpful. What some of you say about going through days of being fine and then just having completely black days is just how i'm feeling so I was hoping some of you might be able to help me make sense of my situation as I'm so confused by what I've found out and I don't feel I can move on until I've gained some kind of closure.
My D day was about a month ago, I've only been married for a few months, when I found out that my WH had an affair two years ago, at the time we were living together and had been together about a year before that. he met her on holiday, she lives abroad, and he stayed in touch with her then visited her where she lives under the guise of telling me he was going on a 'business trip' a few months later. WH says it all stopped there and he never saw her again, but I also found emails a year later where he got in touch with her about visiting again as he was passing through with work, the trip got cancelled but obviously I panicked and interpreted that as that the affair had gone on much longer than he made out.
I got in touch with the girl (in my panicked state) and she told me that nothing happened while he was there-she said that was her decision as she had changed her mind about how she felt, although he was still keen, but said that they had stayed friends and sometimes contacted each other out of the blue. she also confirmed she never saw him again after that first visit.
My WH swears blind that this was the case and admitted he had wanted something to happen, but while he was there it just hadn't and he hadn't really understood why at the time.
I'm really stuck because even though I want to accept his explanation and move on with our marriage I can't help but doubt this far fetched story. Especially as after he returned home I saw a message from him to her, telling her how much more attracted he was to her after the visit.
All I want is the truth so I can process it and move on. But how can I do this when I feel like he is still lying to me - its the dishonesty that kills me rather than the thought of the sex - which hurt like hell at first, but has kind of faded now.
We talked about it to death, but I never feel satisfied with his answers, often he would say he couldn't remember, or speculate on how he might have been feeling rather than give any solid answers, and he now shuts down completely when I ask him and says we have to stop analysing it if we want to move on.
If anyone can advise me on to how to best deal with this, I'd really appreciate it and also let me know what you think of his story. I know the affair is over now and he does seem genuinely remorseful for his behaviour but I hate the thought that I'm being duped by both of them, and am in a vicious circle of questioning him, checking emails trying to find any snippet of evidence, and getting nowhere and putting myself through so much stress.
I know my behaviour now is what is stopping us from moving on.
And I know compared to some of the other stories on here, it might seem trivial but it really has floored me as I feel like I've married a stranger, if I had found at the time I would have left.
Really don't know what to do.

jjct posted 10/3/2013 06:26 AM

Stand firm - don't let him decide what you need to move on.

This is not remorse:

he now shuts down completely when I ask him and says we have to stop analyzing it if we want to move on.

It is rugsweeping.

I'm sorry you're in this situation - you are exactly right about the lies.
It's terrible - so early in marriage! I'm so sad for you

He doesn't want to work on his issues and reasons for betraying you - so that doesn't bode well for your future. Can you imagine the damage to your children?
Most will tell you to just run from this guy - and I can't say I disagree with that...

There is one thing I would suggest.
Go interview with several polygraph places. Get a feel for the types of questions, the nuts and bolts of the process, etc...

Do this without telling him.

We have what we call here the "parking lot confession"...when the WS is being driven to the appointment...

It's a "boundary" that you have to be willing to enforce;
Surprise him with it, at the same time be ready with strength to say;
"You either take this test now, today, - or we're done."

I want to save you a life of agony and betrayal...

PS - It's not your behavior that's keeping you from moving on! Don't buy that!

NeverAgain2013 posted 10/3/2013 07:32 AM

Well Lost80, welcome to the club no one wants to join.

My biggest concern would be exactly WHEN you contacted this woman to ask her about her involvement with your husband.

If you'd already confronted him about this woman BEFORE you contacted her, then it's a real good possbility that the first opportunity he got to be alone, he ran right to her to tell her exactly what to say in case you contacted her.

Let's be honest - none of these other women have any loyalty to the BS. Their first loyalty is to their 'friend,' a/k/a your husband. She wasn't going to throw him under the bus and spill her guts to you just because you came looking for answers. Most of these women don't feel they owe anyone a damned thing and most don't have any qualms about their behavior with married men. Hell, some are deluded enough to think they're as pure as the driven snow and completely blame-free, simply because THEY didn't make vows to you - he did.

So I'd take ANYTHING she said with a huge, huge grain of salt.

As jjct suggested, I would seriously look up polygraph testers in your area and call a couple to find out how to go about making one happen.

I see it this way - if your husband is really telling the truth, then he'll jump at the opportunity to PROVE it to you....right?

cayc posted 10/3/2013 08:09 AM

There are two types of cheaters, those who get tired of their life and take the easy, selfish way out (cheat) and those for whom cheating is a constant state.

The former cheat after being married for awhile. It's devastating because "we had 15 happy years together, why is he/she suddenly unhappy and selfishly cheating now?"

The latter are never not cheating. They either are actively in an A, are priming themselves to have one (loose boundaries with OW/OM candidates) or actually just have another relationship alongside the M the whole time (the long term affair). Generally how do you know you have this kind of cheater on your hands? BECAUSE THEY DISPLAY THIS HABIT BEFORE YOU MARRY. There's no M to tire of. They always cheat. They never fully commit. If they marry/live with you it's just to have a foil, someone to "hate on" to justify their shitty behavior. They crave adoration and will do anything to have it. A's are tailor made for this kind of adoration b/c the OW/OM goes overboard in her/his flattery of the cheater in an attempt win them from their horrible spouses.

I don't care what this OW told you. It wasn't the full story. It never is. People don't willfully portray themselves in a bad light to their accusers, especially when the accuser means nothing to them.

But more importantly, your WH cheated on you before you M, and now is blame shifting/denying after only a few months of M. He cheated on you, and kept in touch with the OW, and tried to see her again even though the A was "over" and you were M. Why? BECAUSE HE'S STILL WILLING, INTERESTED AND ABLE TO CHEAT ON YOU. Nothing you've said about your WH indicates remorse. It only indicates he's sorry he was caught.

A person who is willing to cheat while dating, who cheats on a new M, is someone who will always be cheating. You might think I'm being too definitive, that your WH is the exception. But the SI members here who have serial cheaters on their hands? Of the sort that no amount of therapy fixes? They are the ones who in hindsight realize that their WS cheated before the M.

Everyone is going to give you advice about 180, detaching etc. To read the healing library. Yes, do that. But please, take it from me whose husband slept with at least 50 OW over the course of our relationship. Save yourself. Walk away from an M that is only months old while you can. Sometimes it's worth trying to R based upon years invested (well not really, but I get the impulse) but you have so little invested. It would be so much easier to annul this M, walk away, and find a good faithful man (of which there are many).

Easier said than done I know. It's okay if it takes you awhile to get the courage to figure out what's best for yourself. Please keep posting while you do. We've been in your shoes, and we all went in circles at first too. It's ferpectly normal to do so. But at the same time, I hope you can hear what I'm telling you. Or at least stick it in your head and re-visit it when the immediate trauma abates a little.


Chrysalis123 posted 10/3/2013 10:07 AM

Your gut is screaming at you, and that is why you found us.

Please listen to your gut. This guy is bad news for you. The way I look at it, you have been given the gift of awareness early on. You can choose to get out now or not listen, spend years of heartache, have kids, and then try to get out...... Read the stories of the people on this site who did the later. The are heartbreaking especially the issue involving the WS manipulating and using the kids.

You have the opportunity for a do over. Your choice.....I vote run like your hair is on fire.

lost_in_toronto posted 10/3/2013 10:35 AM

Unfortunately, I have to agree with cayc's post. She made some Really important points, but I know they will be hard to hear.

My WS only had sex with his AP once because of his overwhelming guilt. Except, I knew that didn't make sense. He was far away in a small town with her for months. He held to that lie for months before telling me the truth.

I don't think you are naive at all, because I think you know in your heart he is lying. I think you wish you could believe him, but you just don't. I'm sorry you find yourself here. Take care of yourself and good luck finding the truth.

strongerdaybyday posted 10/3/2013 10:42 AM

I vote run like your hair is on fire.

I agree! My H had an affair and a few years back and I never found out until this "woman" showed up at my door with her son. He had known about the son for about 3 mos (the boy is now 8 yrs) and I had no idea he cheated. We were having a lot of marital issues when she contacted him to inform him about the child and he slept with her AGAIN. No child from this...and he regrets, regrets, regrets. BUT had I known he cheated on my back then I would've ran like the wind.

heforgot posted 10/3/2013 11:04 AM

I hate it when WH says he doesn't remember. This is why I still can't get past the A even after 4 years! So I do feel your pain. I do wonder sometimes if having the answers will make me feel better or worse.

Getting to Happy posted 10/3/2013 11:45 AM

Oh my goodness Lost80, run like the wind and don't look back.

Your newlywed Wh is toxic. His response to all of this revelation is lies or...

...often he would say he couldn't remember, or speculate on how he might have been feeling rather than give any solid answers, and he now shuts down completely when I ask him and says we have to stop analysing it if we want to move on.

He is regretful that he was found out not remorseful that he has blown up a new marriage.

Ditch him for you own good.

He has shown you what he really thinks of you. Believe Him.

To him your a nice wife who will put up with his bullshit ways, wash his skidmarked underware, have dinner on the table when he comes home, have sex with him even though you knows he's a liar/cheater, ALL WHILE he shares his emotional longings with a lover/slut on the side...REALLY?!?

Is this really your new life??

I don't want to knock your sock off with this hardcore missive but I have seen this again and again. And I have given this advice to my own girls. (27 and 25)

Don't ever let anybody, even your own husband disrespect you. You are the prize!

Cut your loses while there are not children in the mix.

Run honey, kick dust in his face while you leave so he can never find you and hurt you again.

Pippy posted 10/3/2013 12:06 PM

Ditto all of the above. You deserve better. He made a GREAT EFFORT, travelling abroad to cheat on you. He is not so willing to work that hard on R. Dump his sorry ass.

Tearsoflove posted 10/3/2013 14:59 PM

My husband and the OW both swore nothing happened between them. I believe they often conspire to come with a story that sounds believable. It's rare that there is physical proximity with no physical contact.

Edited to add: It took about six months of continuous denials for my husband to admit that they slept together in pretty much every way possible and as often as they could get together.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 3:07 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

lost80 posted 10/5/2013 05:37 AM

Thank you all so much for replying. I haven't told anyone else about the situation apart from a family member and a close friend so it really helps getting different views.

Both the people I've told think I should try and make it work, they say our relationship is too special to give up and they say it was a stupid mistake and they know he loves me. So to read all your views was a bit of a shock, but I know I needed someone to recognize how awful this is without being influenced by their perception of us as couple. To everyone - and including me up until a month ago- we do seem like the happiest, in love couple, which is why this is so surreal.

First of all while I know what he did was awful, not just the cheating but the whole devious orchestration of it, I do think I haven't been fair in my description of his behaviour, in the sense that we have talked about it a lot already and it was in the last few days that he started to shut down. Our counsellor which he sorted out, did tell us to try not to focus on the details if we want to move on - so his view is that he is trying to carry out her advice - he doesn't feel the constant analysis is getting us anywhere. and he has tried to explore the reasons why he cheated in the sessions. so not defending him entirely, but yeah he has demonstrated some remorse in my view.

So I've since told him that I'm not ready to stop analysing it, and I suggested we started writing letters to each other because the conversations were just turning into tears and rows. He agreed and he did explain things in more detail in a letter, more along the lines of how he felt and his attraction to her, how he enjoyed the attention, and how he got an excitement/thrill that reminded him of his bachelor days, which has helped me understand his motives more, though still pretty devastated over the fact that he could be so attracted to someone else, while being 'in love' with me. Is that even possible? it's not for me anyway.

Our counsellor says digging away and looking for more answers isn't going to get me anywhere. I just have to make a decision whether can I cope with what he has done and make a choice to give him the gift of trust again, with the caveat that if he does it again I leave, or.... decide I can't get over it and walk away, make a fresh start.

I suppose what he has done is reason enough for me to leave anyway, so finding out anything else won't necessarily change things. That's her view anyway what does anyone else think about this?

heforgot - that point you make about the answers not necessarily making you feel better is true. Sometime I wish I didn't know what she looked like, or had spoken to her, because in a way I feel like I know her now and she will always be present in our relationship.

I did ask about lie detector tests jjct - great idea - but my counsellor said the results are often inconclusive so she doubted that would help me feel satisfied anyway. I would think the whole process of doing it would be damaging - I don't think I'm there yet but I will def consider it as an option in the future depending on how things go.

NeverAgain2013 - I did ask her after I confronted him, only a few hours, but yeah he could have contacted her and I have thought about that. I do realise she owes me nothing and would probably rather do without the responsibility of breaking up a marriage so I could see why she'd rather help him than me. I don't know, her responses were always quick and seemed genuine, but then I've realised not everyone thinks like me or has the same moral code. so yeah a massive pinch of salt as you say.

To all of you that advise me to run like the wind - Getting to Happy and Chrysalis123 - I know exactly why you're saying that. Made me laugh regarding the hair on fire.

Doing that would take massive courage that I'm not sure I have, I've fantasised about it, but realistically I love him and don't want to give up our lives together, that probably makes me look weak i know.

I haven't definitely decided to stay but I have taken on board what the counsellor said about choosing to let go or not and that being the decision really, going to give myself a few weeks to decide and he knows that.

I think the new dilemma I have is knowing he will be attracted to other woman and could act on it. He's a good looking man and I've seen him be approached in bars and clubs. Temptation will come again. He says he knows that and wants to work on how to control those impulses in counselling. he says the experience has been so traumatic he would never want to go through it again, and realises he took us for granted. Would never do it again etc.

so yeah, still deciding, but finding the counselling helpful, would appreciate your thoughts and will keep you posted. x

jjct posted 10/5/2013 07:02 AM

I'm not defending the idea of a poly per se, but I want to look into why you think the "whole process" - of you finding out the truth, really - could be "damaging".

What is "damaging" is being

in a vicious circle of questioning him, checking emails trying to find any snippet of evidence, and getting nowhere and putting myself through so much stress.

What is "damaging" are his actions, not yours. (the same as what I said earlier - it's not your behavior that's keeping you from moving on)

I know remorse. A remorseful spouse would volunteer to do anything - anything! to restore trust.

Back to the poly - if I found myself as your WS, and felt your suffering that I caused - I'd be on my knees, saying; "Yes dear lost80, the results may be inconclusive, but any little assurance it can offer (that I'm telling the truth), I want to do that for you."

You have nothing to lose but a lifetime of gnawing uncertainty to at least become informed (interview a few). You don't even have to follow through. I think scheduling it, and springing it on him...
his reaction -
will tell you all you need to know.

I think the issue is putting your foot down (I know - not so easy to do) - and demanding an end to your uncertainty and subsequent suffering.
hugs to you - strength!

solus sto posted 10/5/2013 07:52 AM

Both the people I've told think I should try and make it work, they say our relationship is too special to give up and they say it was a stupid mistake and they know he loves me
Ah, yes. The "special relationship." I had one of those for ...oh, over 30 years (including before marriage).

It was a lie, from the very beginning. I didn't know that---it took me a very long time to grasp that. But it was never real.

Listen to your GUT, not others' perceptions. No one knows anything about anyone else's marriage, really.

My family and friends were shocked to learn the depth of my husband's depravity.

Until they thought about it a little, and noticed, in their rearview mirrors, the little red flags they'd missed along the way.

I missed those flags, too. And when they got BIG, and hard to miss, I tried not to see them for a while.

The thing is, there's nothing to "work out." If you have a man who's cheated on you--then been dishonest--for the bulk of your relationship, there's nothing to work with.

MC? No. With an unremorseful spouse, it's emotional suicide (homicide?) for the BS. Stick to IC for now--it will do you much, much more good.

It is NOT your behavior that is "keeping you from moving on." It is the barrier your husband has erected with his secrets and lies.

PLEASE---listen to your gut. You are not moving forward because something is standing in your way, telling you it's not safe.

Listen to that.

Drop the MC. It will effect no positive change at this point. Go to IC. Gather the tools you need to respect your own intuition and boundaries (or how to erect boundaries if you need that skill).

I know the strong, strong impulse to believe the man you love, particularly early in the relationship. Thing is, it leads to a really imbalanced, toxic dynamic that ultimately leaves you doubting the color of the sky.

Honey, the sky is blue. And he's telling you it's yellow.

Whatdoido333 posted 10/5/2013 08:46 AM

All I'm going to say is be careful..4 years ago I found my WH had an EA . I still believe it didn't progress to a PA but who knows. Anyway, we are still together and WH and OW still work together and they still talk after work hours, supposedly about work. Do I believe it...not I think they had a PA..not really. It's just some depraved relationship.

I am in my mid 50s with children. If I was young or had no children, I would have run like the wind.

doggiediva posted 10/5/2013 09:08 AM

I wish I had the advice found here on S.I. 28 years ago.

By the time D-day came knocking at my door, we had been married almost 7 years and had a 3 month old baby..

I wish I had researched everything infidelity related, I wish I had reached out to people for advice even if they were strangers...I ended up rug sweeping because I wanted to make sure my baby had TWO parents around to raise him.

In the years that followed we raised our two sons to adulthood..The years were fraught with frustrations for me, in dealing with my WH's chronic unemployment and short temper..I was able to put up with his B.S. because I got just enough attention thrown my way to keep me in the M..

D-day # 2 came knocking at my door just after my younger son had moved out of the house..

My WH has been un remorseful in handling the aftermath of his A's..
Emotionally I am divorced from him but legally still married..We are separated in house because I cannot afford to physically separate and support two households..

I wish I had taken my baby and run like my hair was on fire all those years ago....

If you can't leave without giving your M one last chance, then please do these things..

See an attorney and do all you can to legally protect yourself..

Secure or obtain banking and financial resources/assets/credit in your own name..Do not accumulate debt with WH..

Before you know it 10, 15, 30 years will slip by..

You don't want to find yourself in this predicament years from now without a way out.. You feel trapped into staying with a despicable WS because you have too much invested in the M and can't afford to leave...

Protect yourself as of yesterday!

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:16 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]

Take2 posted 10/5/2013 09:57 AM

Why does a guy who recently chose to move in with his girlfriend cheat? then make plans to cheat again (the visit) and tries to arrange another meeting after that,(which falls through) then "keeps in touch" with the AP while in the meantime he marries his girlfriend... WHY?

If he cheats during "the honeymoon phase" of the relationship, when things are going well and moving forward... (just because, he had an opportunity and it felt good) what is going to happen when things get hard, when you get pregnant, when there is stress.

I think this is likely what is haunting you... and I think for good reason.

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