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Dadtryingtocope posted 10/3/2013 15:09 PM

So I haven't posted in a while as my crazy month subsides. My EW got engaged in May less than a month after the ink was dry on our D. In September they went away for a week to get married. I took care of the kids all week. Upon their return last weekend they had a reception for "their friends" (our kids were not invited, her family would not attend and none of our common friends got invitations so I'm sure she felt great about all her supporters being at a 2 hour open bar event). So in less than 6 months you have gotten divorced, engaged and married. Oh yes, and you didn't include your kids in any of the celebrations. Oh and you were married using the timeshare week we used to own together. Oh and I guess I funded this with the money I pay each month as well. I really didn't think it would bother me and maybe it could feel worse then it does, but I really don't understand.

In addition to the crazy train, I have attempted to try and get myself released from some of the monthly "stress and anger" I endure each month as I sign another check. I don't pay alimony so I can't go to court to reduce my payment. It is all CS and asset payoff money. But on the advice of a close friend I sent an email to try and explain that I needed to heal from all this and paying her a large amount of money each month, living paycheck to paycheck, for something I didn't do, was not helping me do that. All of the fighting and anger I have directed at her recently really comes from the money I pay. The deal is 5 years. I set it up assuming you would be a single mom needing my help. Now you likely have a good amount of disposable income while I have very little. So I asked her to reconsider our payment set up (it is non-modifiable by the courts, only by us). She wants to see me be more "pleasant" to her before she would consider it. So I have taken the high road. She wants to talk about the kids I talk. We have started talking on the phone. That is hard because if she is being nice to me it triggers me to remember the old days and I don't like going there. But I do it in hopes it will get me to a point where I don't care and maybe the financial strain will end or be reduced.

Of course most of me just thinks this is a pipe dream. She would never take less money and I'm sure her new husband is coaching her along to take all she can, while she can. And it's not that I'm opposed to paying CS. I know we have a lot of single parents who are entitled to it and aren't getting it here and that is just wrong. But my take is that she doesn't need it. I pick up insurance for the kids, I buy my own clothes for them, I take them on vacation. I mean I pay her all this money, she hasn't taken the kids on a single vacation. She's been to the Caribbean at least twice in the last year so she's not hurting for money either. I know I can't worry about what she does with the money.

So holidays coming again too. Her parents have disowned her over this and the marriage didn't do her any favors. So I will step up and attend holiday functions with them if needed for the kids. I have a good relationship with her parents so I don't mind. Just a little weird because technically now I'm not the son-in-law anymore. I'm just the dad of their grandchildren. But my goal is still to do what's best for everyone here. I guess we are all making sacrifices that are better especially for our kids, even if they aren't helping us.

Thanks for listening.

[This message edited by Dadtryingtocope at 3:10 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

cayc posted 10/3/2013 17:07 PM

it is non-modifiable by the courts

How can this be? Why can't you sue her - a separate action from the D? Why not just stop paying? What's going to happen if you do? Have you had a new attorney review this agreement? What in the world did you sign that gives her total control and you none? There's no way that there isn't a way around this.

Please start documenting your reasonable request that she accept less money. Get this all on email. Find out what the solvency is of this person she married. Hire a PI to do it if you have to. And then take her to court. A brand new civil action. Because you are very correct. That asset agreement was in lieu of alimony with the same intents and purposes. Alimony would go away with remarriage, and so too should this.

cmego posted 10/3/2013 19:26 PM

I agree that a BS who has to then pay spousal support is a total rip off.

What is your lawyers advice? Can you offer her a lump sum just to be done?

Dadtryingtocope posted 10/4/2013 09:15 AM

How can this be? Why can't you sue her - a separate action from the D? Why not just stop paying? What's going to happen if you do? Have you had a new attorney review this agreement? What in the world did you sign that gives her total control and you none? There's no way that there isn't a way around this.


I didn't give her control necessarily. There are two things I pay her for that go into the check. One is child support. It is formula based on how much I make vs how much she makes. To the best of my knowledge, whatever her new husband brings to the table is irrelevant to this equation. I can certainly go back to my attorney and ask or even go out and talk to other attorneys. But the way I understand it, I am a victim of the formula.

The other part of the payment is to pay off the asset division. The summary of the deal was this:

She got the BMW (which we owed money on so that goes against me in the asset column), my 69 Corvette, our timeshare property, all of our joint cash reserves, some of the money out of the house and about 1/4 of my retirement account.

I got to keep the house, my Honda and about 3/4 of my retirement. She got to keep her retirement in full but there was not much there. As a matter of fact my contribution to her retirement more than doubled it.

So to avoid taking more cash out of the house (which would of been difficult with new mortgage rules) or dipping further into my retirement, I gave her a monthly payoff (interest free of course) on the assets. Some of the asset values are subjective and I valued them when I made the offer. I pay NO spousal support. She was not entitled to it and we did not offer it. When they signed the deal they also made sure non of it was designated as spousal support (one for tax purposes since I could of claimed the payment and two because I'm sure she knew by then she was getting married). Her new husband is D and paying support to his ex so I am sure she was well coached.

Why is it non-modifiable, because that can help me too in some ways. She can't come after me for additional CS money during those 5 years. If I get a big pay raise or big bonus then I don't have to worry about her coming after that. Of course with the economy the way it is, that won't be happening any time soon.

The easiest way around it is if she agrees to talk less money or stop taking money. I would ask for it in writing if it would ever happen. I just don't see it happening.

But I will go back to my attorney and see what options might be out there. I'm only 7 payments into my 60 payment prison term so hopefully if nothing changes I at least just learn to live with it.

My understanding is that it is non-modifiable. Neither of us can go and ask the system to change the CS payment over next 4 1/2 years. I took the deal because it protected my future money increase. She took it because it guarentees her that money regardless of my status (so if I lose my job, I still owe her that paycheck). That is the way I understand the terms of the agreement.

Again I set up the deal as it being her as a single mom needing my help. Obviously 6 months later married with a new house and two incomes, she should not need my money. Anyone with a conscience would likely give up that and let people move on with their lives. But I don't think we are dealing with that here.

Cmego - I could always offer a lump sum, but short of selling my house (which I gave up everyting to keep) I have no way to pay her a lump sum. I could borrow the money but I'm paying her interest free so unlikely I get a better deal somewhere else. Tha only way it improves is if she agrees not to take some/all the money.

[This message edited by Dadtryingtocope at 9:19 AM, October 4th (Friday)]

cayc posted 10/4/2013 13:25 PM

two because I'm sure she knew by then she was getting married

This is kind of what I'm getting at. It was a deal made in bad faith by one of the parties. And I would take her to civil court (not family/D court) over a bad faith deal. And while you are suing her? Put the payments in an escrow account.

I have much sympathy for you because I can see why the situation is anger making. And I believe it has become intolerable because that anger is getting in the way of the rest of your life, likely causing a new cascade of bad decisions. So much so, that it's time to stop feeling like a victim, stop expecting/asking anything of your xWW and do something about it. Something about it that puts your best interests front and center and does not account for her's.

[This message edited by cayc at 1:26 PM, October 4th, 2013 (Friday)]

homewrecked2011 posted 10/4/2013 14:16 PM

I think in the long run you are better off. You have the house that no only has equity, but you prob put money down. In XXX number of years you will owe $0 every month.

She, on the other hand, will probably get divorced again one day and have to start all over.
This is how I am looking at it. I only have 15 years left on the mort then I am at $0 every month.

Those payments suck that you have to make, I would talk to an atty , though.

Take2 posted 10/4/2013 14:44 PM

In that it is not SS - but asset division, I don't see it being modifiable (whether she married or not).

Oh, I get the frustration and the anger, but I don't see the situation changing, and I really don't see her giving up the money from the "equitable" division of assets. She is just jerking your chain, and you are setting yourself up for more resentment by agreeing to "play nice" Ugh.

I feel for you - it certainly is a sucky situation. Could you maybe set it up so that a deposit in made into her account automatically without actually having to physically write a check each month...?

Maybe that would help a tad...?


TrustNoOne posted 10/4/2013 14:58 PM

I doubt it is modifiable either.

However, if it's the pain of writing a check - do you do that literally? If so, perhaps you could put it on autopay, where is just gets deducted - like taxes, 401K contributions, etc?

I would choke to have to write her name, an amount, and sign my name each month...but autopay of a fixed amount for 53 more months, meh...out of sight out of mind.

chikastuff posted 10/4/2013 15:00 PM

I understand you're bitter about the money you're paying your ex and the sacrifices you feel you're making, but here's the thing, child support is child support. It's based off of a state mandated formula because it makes things as objective as possible. It's paid to the custodial parent to go towards the care of the family. Paying her CS doesn't mean you don't have to clothe your children when they're in your care. The fact that you take them on vacation is fabulous, but whether she takes them on vacation is her choice. And TBH, you don't know that she's spending CS on herself, nor is it your business.

In terms of her "income" being reported in the CS formula, you're right. She's likely living a more comfortable lifestyle with her new partner. But CS doesn't take the partner's income into account (until they're married), because the relationship isn't legally binding and can end at any time. So yea, bitter pill to swallow, but it is what it is.

As for the additional money you're paying, that's part of the agreement and it's no different than an agreement to liquidate assets and pay the other party their portion. You can't go back after the fact and say "But I really DO want those wedding pictures" when she was awarded them in the divorce.

I see the issue in how the payments were structured. Unfortunately, because of the staggered payments you're reminded of the settlement month after month. While I know it might not have been possible, a lump sum might have been better for your state of mind.

The ONLY modification proposal I see is offering a lump sum of the full settlement amount due to her, today and an agreement to nullify the monthly payment/5 year plan.

Remember, once she's married, if she takes you back to court for a modification, the court could consider the household income, not just her personal income when determining a new amount. So theoretically it could benefit you in the end.

I'm sorry it's rough going for you right now and I hope it starts to improve soon.

cmego posted 10/4/2013 15:39 PM

I definitely think that seeing if you can find a way to do a lump sum payment simply to ease your pain. If you can't move forward from this obstacle, then find a way over it.

My sister did this in her first divorce, she took a one time lump sum payment and walked away.

Can you refinance the house? Sell it and start over with some new space and new memories?

That is what I did, I walked away from the marital home and started over in a much smaller home and a city an hour away. But, it is all mine.

Dadtryingtocope posted 10/8/2013 13:05 PM

Can you refinance the house? Sell it and start over with some new space and new memories?

I did refinance the house. It is how I managed to stay in the house and pay her some of the equity. Could I sell it, yes once the 6 month period after the refi is up. But then I would of lost everything. I gave up everything I had to keep the house and keep the kids in the District. Could I sell and buy another house in the District - yes. But my location is the absolute best (2 doors down from HS and MS) and this is my kids home. So that would be my last resort.

I sent a message to my attorney. We will see what he says. I suspect I get no where.

I have no problem with the CS payment theory. And I get she doesn't have to spend it how I see fit. I'm not asking her to. I'm not asking her not to take it if she really needs it. I'm just asking her to asses her current financial status. If she doesn't need my money or as much of my money and can revise her monthly take from me, it would go a long way and be helpful as part of my healing process. I don't like being mad each month. Certainly the automatic payment idea could work as well. It may be worth looking into.

I was under the impression that there was no way to modify the agreement without consent of both parties. She is already married to him. They just got married 2 weeks age. Like I said I am playing nice in the sand because she agreed to consider my request if she saw things were nice. I've been good for about 3 weeks now. I'll go to end of October and then ask again. If I don't get anywhere then I guess I just keep shelling it out for the next 4 years and 5 months. Her payment is more than my mortgage payement so she living well. Do doubt. Yup, I get cheated on and I get to pay for it. Love the justice system.

CheaterMagnet posted 10/8/2013 15:21 PM

You keep referring to it as "your" money. It isn't. It is her share of the marital assets. Presumably she contributed to the purchase of the house if not financially then with sweat equity in keeping a home for you and the children. The same with the other assets.

Her share isn't dependent on whether or not she remarries. It isn't SS and it isn't CS. It doesn't even matter if she doesn't need the money. She is entitled to her share of the marital assets accumulated during the marriage.

Look, I get it. It sucks that she gets half of the assets when she blew up the marriage. It sucks that you weren't able to give her her share in a lump sum so you have to write her checks for 5 years. It sucks. But the truth is that just because she cheated doesn't make her any less entitled to her share of the assets. That's just the way it works. And in truth, you are lucky she agreed to a payment plan rather than forcing you to sell the home to pay her off.

I know it sucks. I know it hurts. But you can get through it. I like the suggestion of putting it on Autopay so you don't have to think about it. That might help a little bit.

((HUGS)) to you.

Markone posted 10/8/2013 15:48 PM

Been here except my ex played marriage (rings and all) but didn't actually get married so as to preserve (in our State) her spousal support. It was a blatant mis-use of support in my opinion as they were using the $5,000 a month in SS as 'play money'.

It sucks. It IS not fair but I advise you to view this as a bad investment/bad business deal. Like a car payment or utility bill, she's just another 'debit'. Hurts, but you're paying your way out of what would have been an increasingly declining "investment". You cut your losses - that's a victory in many ways.

I'm no longer bitter about my experience and in many ways proud that through SS (and child support)I enabled my kids to continue having a nice lifestyle despite only half of it being with me. No infidelity involved though and that does make a difference.

But wait....there's more . I'm now getting killed financially by someone more like your EX-WW - party girl, doesn't work, didn't contribute a penny. Lived the good life, cheated and now is set to receive a large sum or SS amount or combo of both.

She didn't work, she didn't put in "sweat equity" raised no children with me, didn't contribute any savings from prior to the marriage.

It isn't fair, welcome to the justice system.

You'd think I'd have learned by

Dadtryingtocope posted 10/10/2013 08:48 AM

CM- Yes I know all of this and I do get it. I know this is my reality. It's just frustrating and the system is obviously broken. At this point I am more angry about the money then I am about her being a cheater. I'm not sure that is the right way to think but that's my feelings. I come here to vent those frustrations and I appreciate that everyone tries to help and also redirects me back to the reality that there is nothing I can do about it. I've been victimized by her and the system.

Markone - dude, I don't feel nearly as bad about my situation so thanks for that. That does suck. That is why next time I get married, if it happens, there will be a pre-nup. I have a lot more at stake now with two kids so I want to be careful.

I did send my attorney a message. I truly don't believe anything will happen either with him going back after her OR with her agreeing to take less (probably have a better chance of seeing God). But at least I tried even if it was just self serving for me.

I know I am totally in rebuilding mode at this point. Nothing I can do to speed up that process, it will take some time. After 5 years all I MAY have left is CS payments. If I feel the same way I do now, it will be a fierce negotiation. I totally expect the kids will be spending more nights at my house by then and that will affect support payments. Plus we will be getting close to college and cars at that point. I truly expect she won't be there to help with those things. I can't help that I am an advanced planner, its the engineer in me. The only thing that sucks for me is that part of me is wishing the 5 years go by and I hate feeling like I'm wishing my life away and my time with the kids.

Sigh. None of us asked for this.

HopeImOverIt posted 10/10/2013 10:37 AM

Hey I noticed you live in PA like I do. My lawyer said any agreement about Child Support being "non-modifiable" is not legally binding. From what I understand, child support is a right of the children, not the custodial parent. So therefore any agreement the parents enter into to make CS artificially low isn't legally binding, because it violates the rights of the children to be supported.
My lawyer told me parents can ask DPW to recalculate child support at any time, no matter what is written in a divorce agreement.

Also, if you are paying for their health insurance you should be getting a credit for that in the CS calculation. (Perhaps you already are?)

I agree with others that a five year payment plan to pay off her share of the marital assets seems like a pretty good deal. Many people I know were forced to sell their homes in order to divide the money immediately. My guess is that only the part of your payment that is "marital asset repayment" is truly non-modifiable.

I'm sorry you are so angry about writing that check very month. Occasionally my Ex expresses anger about the amount he has to pay in CS, but since he broke up the marriage, I don't give a flying F. Obviously it's a lot tougher when it's the betrayed person who has to write the check. I second (third, fourth) the recommendation to set up auto-pay with your bank.

Dadtryingtocope posted 10/11/2013 12:10 PM

Hope - thanks. We ran the formula a number of ways and took what looked best for us, that her attorney would agree on.

One question for you - have you ever heard of anyone getting credit in the formula for keeping the marital home? One of my friends said she had been granted almost no CS because her ex-husband kept the marital home. And their salary difference was significant.

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