I want him to stay I want him to work on our relationship.
Really that's the main thing that you can tell him. That you want him to stay, that you want him in your life, that you don't want to lose him.
What he does is entirely his choice.
You have choices, too.
Your choice right now is to stick around and try as hard as you can to work on this.
The only reason either of you are still in this relationship is that you are both choosing to be.
Sometimes the acceptance of conscious choice makes it a bit easier to continue in a relationship, if that makes any sense. It feels a lot better to say, "I am here because I want to be." versus, "I am here because I have to be."
So I guess my suggestion is to tell him your wants and desires. In turn he can tell you what he wants and desires out of you in turn for staying in this relationship. It's all part of communication.
[This message edited by LosferWords at 11:09 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]
It can be, sure. If you want him to stay because he pays the bills and you're afraid of losing your lifestyle, it's wrong. If you took the A underground, are still lying and generally putting him through false R, yes, all kinds of wrong. If you're planning to wait it out till the kids graduate college and then kick BS (or WS, for that matter!) to the curb, yep, totally wrong.
But if he wants the M, and you love him and want the M...it would be wrong NOT to ask him to stay. Asking him to stay lets him know that even though you betrayed him terribly, you want him. We need to feel loved and wanted by our spouses, no matter what label they or we wear.
I've been reading your posts lately about how to deal with the hateful name-calling. It's a topic that comes up often on SI. I'll quote what my BH wrote several weeks ago, in response to a thread asking if the A elephant is always in the room.
Previously, in the presence of said pesky pachyderm, I would either stuff my feelings, lash out, or act out in some way. I might have said, after kissing WW, "I can't stand to kiss you anymore because of what you did with him. How could you have done that to me?" Now I'm trying to learn to express my feelings without directly blaming or confronting. So I might say, "When we're kissing and I think about you kissing someone else I feel very sad and uncomfortable." This is more likely to elicit support and comfort and it also allows me to express my feelings and not stuff them away. I'm hoping, over time, that this will starve our humongous house guest.
I want and what is important I know that may be cliche. I think Thr biggest thing Is it made me stop listening to all the outside influences
What were the outside influences? Are they still there?
So now, to you, what is important
Mind you seeing his face when he saw me
I am sorry Joanh, could you clarify what you meant by this statement above? What did he see?
He saw me giving the AP a back massage. I was still dressed the Ap had his shirt off but He was laying on his bed. And my BH looked through the window and something in me looked at the window at the same time as he my BH looked in . That's the three seconds in my life Iam sure he would like to take back, To have that vision implanted on your brain:-(
Yes that will be envisioned in his brain for a very long time. That thought plus the many lies will be going across his thought process constantly.
After the shock wears off, anger will be the most prevalent emotion. However the anger is just masking the hurt. So to ask him to stay may be good on some level. It gets him to see that you still want him, however, there is conflict on whether he can believe and trust you.
Year 2 is one of the hardest years because now the shock of the affair has worn off and now you are dealing with the fallout if you chose to reconcile.
He isn't sure he knows who you are. So asking him to stay can come off very selfish, but saying why you want him to stay and what you plan to do to make it safe for him to stay can go a long way.
I had a really hard time believing this as genuine. I did not trust and anything said was immediately placed into a highly cautious space. After being lied to, it is hard to take words at face value. Genuine actions that help him find his own strength and don't expect anything in return are most valuable.
The thing about staying is that it is a choice that is made almost everyday. It can change. It is not a one time event. It is an evaluation of many things outside of your M that factor into it. I am not diminishing your role, but you are only part of his role.
The things that helped me the most was when my W did things because she wanted to and nothing was asked of me in return (even a few days later). I had to see why I would want to stay, before I felt comfortable making any commitments. I needed to see something better than I had Pre-A and I needed to see that my W would do the work to ensure I was happy and safe.
I am linking two of your posts here so forgive me that and bear with me.
If my W told me she loved me, baked me cookies and then initiated a discussion to "stay." Not stay for one day, but essentially give her an assurance that "this will work out." I would probably rebuff all three things and become angry that her behavior again was "trying to put one past me."
Considering our history, I would reflect and see a series of events to manipulate me into a certain behavior. I would get upset and probably isolate myself further. I would also push my W away to ensure there was a "safe" distance between us where I could make my own decisions in a vacuum.
I am not saying your motivations are untrue, I am just pointing out how this can look to a BH who has recent examples fresh in our minds. Fresh being years 1-2.
Instead of "asking" him to stay try telling him you are very glad he decided to stay that day. It works best at the end of the day with an I love (insert something you admire about him). I am so sorry for hurting you. You are not likely to get anything in return for awhile, but that is normal. Consistent and genuine always. Don't force anything.
"I love you so much. I am very happy you are here with me right now." Spur of the moment kind of things can be very effective.
As much as this feels wrong to you, it is his decision to stay. Don't make the decision for him. Let him regain some of his power back.
I am not trying to heap more on you as I can see that you are hurting. I am trying to help you gain a window into what is behind what you have seen lately.
A phase that most BHs go through is a severe self loathing phase. We hate ourselves for staying and that conflict plays out in horrible ways. It is mostly internal, but leaks out as anger. The truth is we are angry with ourselves for not having the "balls," to walk away. That is what we have been taught too in these cases. It destroys our sense of self and any self esteem we have. We feel like less than a man. It is a horrible, soul-crushing feeling.
Building your husband up with positive comments, even to others (when he thinks you don't know he is there is a good one) can help start his individual process. At some point he has to do this on his own. He might just need to be elevated a little to see that it is possible to feel better.
Anger is secondary. Underneath it, is a shell of a very wounded man. He feels scared, alone and worthless.
Trying helping those things, instead of asking for anything right now. Listen to the anger with humility and offer something to address one of those things underneath. Or better yet try that once the anger is exhausted.
Just trying to give you some background based on my experience. Remember if he wanted to leave, he probably would have found a way. Take it day by day. Pressing for anything right now would add to the already crippling fear.
FWIW today I am much better and I am glad I stayed with my W. She moved mountains to give me a reason and showed me that life with her would be better than a life without her. It takes time and some "heavy lifting", but it can be done. Take care.
DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.
As for asking to stay, I try to find reasons to convince my BS that I am working on me, whether its through IC, reading, whatever. The question of "why do we stay together if we're always fighting now" comes up a lot. And all I can answer is that I hope that we won't always fight and we will eventually make it through all of this. My BS is sometimes happy that I am working on myself and other times indifferent or doesn't care (at least that's what she says). It's so hard to know sometimes so I simply try to be as consistent as I can.
My WH has asked me to come home many times or said to me I'm welcome to come back when I'm ready, but I always feel like it's because he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy and not because he's necessarily ready to make changes. His words and actions are constantly at odds with one another, so I have no inclination at this point to return home. The sad part is that I WANT to go home; I miss being a family and would love to start my new one with my baby and my H but I just will not allow myself to go back until I know he's serious about changing and actually accepts responsibility for his actions. To this day I don't think he is remorseful for his affairs because in his mind his actions were justified because I didn't give him sex as often as he would have liked or under his parameters. It's disappointing and kind of pitiful to see someone who is so willing to throw away the past 11 years of his life over his pride, but you can't help someone who won't admit they have a problem, right? At any rate, hold your course, be patient, and most of all be sincere; we know when you're not. :) Best of luck to you and your husband.