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Is this not just wrong?
On Saturday last week when all the hate and name calling came another question of how can you ask me to stay came up.
And really how can I?
Is this not the ultimate selfish want , Is this not the worst thing I do, Is the staying and not leaving the worse thing I can do.
The choice to have the affair says the total opposite, of me . Now after Ihave cheated. I want him to stay I want him to work on our relationship.
now he feels the same way I did before I started my affair. I had grown cold, I felt like what was the point, and was uncertain if the love was enough.
So what makes it ok for us to ask this of them now?
I know for me, I don't want to give up on the best thing in my life. It was my indecisiveness that help lead me down the track of my A, No more!
I had questioned my life before the affair, all the expectations all the opinions of where I should be and who people saw me as and who I really was inside. Those questions and mind conversations are gone.
It is being said that Affairs are life altering for the BS, it has been for mine BH. The thing is , it is also life altering for myself. And this is so horrible.
This is a struggle I am having though on whether I should be asking him to stay and try. I know its his choice. Ilove him and I want him, and yet I know looking at me brings him sever pain and hurt, yet he is still here. AS you can tell from my post of late ,I am in a real struggle as well as he, I had read and had been prewarned the 1 year was going to be hard. Well I honestly am feeling worse now then I did year ago. Mind you seeing his face when he saw me is implanted on my brain as it must be for him. That look that night I wish could be rewritten or erased from both of our minds.

I want him to stay I want him to work on our relationship.

Really that's the main thing that you can tell him. That you want him to stay, that you want him in your life, that you don't want to lose him.

What he does is entirely his choice.

You have choices, too.

Your choice right now is to stick around and try as hard as you can to work on this.

The only reason either of you are still in this relationship is that you are both choosing to be.

Sometimes the acceptance of conscious choice makes it a bit easier to continue in a relationship, if that makes any sense. It feels a lot better to say, "I am here because I want to be." versus, "I am here because I have to be."

So I guess my suggestion is to tell him your wants and desires. In turn he can tell you what he wants and desires out of you in turn for staying in this relationship. It's all part of communication.

Good luck.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 11:09 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]

Is your question: Is asking one's BS to stay wrong?

It can be, sure. If you want him to stay because he pays the bills and you're afraid of losing your lifestyle, it's wrong. If you took the A underground, are still lying and generally putting him through false R, yes, all kinds of wrong. If you're planning to wait it out till the kids graduate college and then kick BS (or WS, for that matter!) to the curb, yep, totally wrong.

But if he wants the M, and you love him and want the M...it would be wrong NOT to ask him to stay. Asking him to stay lets him know that even though you betrayed him terribly, you want him. We need to feel loved and wanted by our spouses, no matter what label they or we wear.

I've been reading your posts lately about how to deal with the hateful name-calling. It's a topic that comes up often on SI. I'll quote what my BH wrote several weeks ago, in response to a thread asking if the A elephant is always in the room.

Previously, in the presence of said pesky pachyderm, I would either stuff my feelings, lash out, or act out in some way. I might have said, after kissing WW, "I can't stand to kiss you anymore because of what you did with him. How could you have done that to me?" Now I'm trying to learn to express my feelings without directly blaming or confronting. So I might say, "When we're kissing and I think about you kissing someone else I feel very sad and uncomfortable." This is more likely to elicit support and comfort and it also allows me to express my feelings and not stuff them away. I'm hoping, over time, that this will starve our humongous house guest.

We're both learning to identify and express our feelings without directly blaming or confronting, and it is hard fucking work, every day, every conversation. But I don't think our M would survive if we continued blaming each other for our feelings, because that is how I justified my As, by believing BH was a terrible H who didn't want or love me. He "wasn't making me happy or feel loved and wanted," which I realize now was projection, not to mention that nobody can "make" me feel anything. Identifying and expressing one's feelings is necessary and healthy. Hateful name-calling...not so much.

The reason I am here working on reconciling is I love him and I want my life to be with him That's the worse thing to me though. It took my affair and having to face what I have done to clarify to myself what it is I want and what is important
I know that may be cliche. I think Thr biggest thing Is it made me stop listening to all the outside influences And expectations and made all Thr voices in my head quit and I heard me. Does that make sense?
Even still knowing the nightmare I've caused my BH I question my right ts ask or to be here to try and reconcile.

I want and what is important I know that may be cliche. I think Thr biggest thing Is it made me stop listening to all the outside influences

So now, to you, what is important? Exactly what do you mean by this?

What were the outside influences? Are they still there?

So now, to you, what is important

Family and my husband and myself and truly being happy with what I have today.
I have been in a struggle that has not only included self esteem self worth type issues from childhood experience, I have also been struggling with who I am. On one hand I am suppose to be this strong carreer independent women everyone can look up and internally wishing someone would realize I need to have support too. I Now realize you have to ASK for it. When people see you a certain way its because that's the persona you give off how are they suppose to know different.
With the independent persona, My family my friends expected this ambitious self directed woman who was career minded , and for a long time I was like that. I had to prove to my mother especially and anyone around me that I was successful, I needed to define me and show I was worth it. I have also never felt worthy or good enough in my mothers eyes and yet she has been probably the worse influence on my life. She had taught me right off the bat to have a safety nest incase my BH or any man left me. She tried to tell me that I didn't want my youngest son and daughter because I had such a hard time in the first place you will feel trapped. Laughing at my Husband and I when we try and do our hobby farm and give our children a farm life. All the voices in my head telling me I need to be more be better.
The struggle has been lifelong, some of it too has been the need to be loved for me, not this person you want me to be.
Other out side influences are the rest of my family, I was brought up in a family who stays by each other in the weirdest way. We all have issues which. I haven't been able to figure out exactly why. I know some of it comes from knowledge that you are looked down on if your not a professional, if you are a labourer your nothing or less than. AS we are all girls we were taught you don't need a man and to be self sufficient and you never have to worry about them hurting you. And this was carried through and into my life as I grew up and out of the home. Solution to marital problem was have a nest egg and leave. You don't have to stay if you don't like it.
So yes the outside influences are still here, they won't go away, the biggest thing is I now know I can turn to my husband, well hopefully.
The biggest thing is that internal dialog is gone. I see that the people I have been listening to for my advice, have some major issues them selves, and a lot of their influence is their own wants and needs projected on to me.
I believe its ok to be me to need love and need to be supported by your husband, to lean on him when you need too and ask for help when I need to.
And the most importnant priority is My husband, US, my children and me.

Mind you seeing his face when he saw me

I am sorry Joanh, could you clarify what you meant by this statement above? What did he see?

He saw me giving the AP a back massage. I was still dressed the Ap had his shirt off but He was laying on his bed. And my BH looked through the window and something in me looked at the window at the same time as he my BH looked in . That's the three seconds in my life Iam sure he would like to take back, To have that vision implanted on your brain:-(

He saw me giving the AP a back massage. I was still dressed the Ap had his shirt off but He was laying on his bed. And my BH looked through the window and something in me looked at the window at the same time as he my BH looked in . That's the three seconds in my life Iam sure he would like to take back, To have that vision implanted on your brain:-(

Yes that will be envisioned in his brain for a very long time. That thought plus the many lies will be going across his thought process constantly.
After the shock wears off, anger will be the most prevalent emotion. However the anger is just masking the hurt. So to ask him to stay may be good on some level. It gets him to see that you still want him, however, there is conflict on whether he can believe and trust you.

Year 2 is one of the hardest years because now the shock of the affair has worn off and now you are dealing with the fallout if you chose to reconcile.

He isn't sure he knows who you are. So asking him to stay can come off very selfish, but saying why you want him to stay and what you plan to do to make it safe for him to stay can go a long way.

I know for me the "asking me to stay," for a long time came across as manipulative. I could or would not see the reasons behind it as anything other than it was "supposed," to do. She wanted to "pretend," it never happened. Wanted to me to believe that "now," she is faithful, truthful and loving.

I had a really hard time believing this as genuine. I did not trust and anything said was immediately placed into a highly cautious space. After being lied to, it is hard to take words at face value. Genuine actions that help him find his own strength and don't expect anything in return are most valuable.

The thing about staying is that it is a choice that is made almost everyday. It can change. It is not a one time event. It is an evaluation of many things outside of your M that factor into it. I am not diminishing your role, but you are only part of his role.

The things that helped me the most was when my W did things because she wanted to and nothing was asked of me in return (even a few days later). I had to see why I would want to stay, before I felt comfortable making any commitments. I needed to see something better than I had Pre-A and I needed to see that my W would do the work to ensure I was happy and safe.

I am linking two of your posts here so forgive me that and bear with me.

If my W told me she loved me, baked me cookies and then initiated a discussion to "stay." Not stay for one day, but essentially give her an assurance that "this will work out." I would probably rebuff all three things and become angry that her behavior again was "trying to put one past me."

Considering our history, I would reflect and see a series of events to manipulate me into a certain behavior. I would get upset and probably isolate myself further. I would also push my W away to ensure there was a "safe" distance between us where I could make my own decisions in a vacuum.

I am not saying your motivations are untrue, I am just pointing out how this can look to a BH who has recent examples fresh in our minds. Fresh being years 1-2.

Instead of "asking" him to stay try telling him you are very glad he decided to stay that day. It works best at the end of the day with an I love (insert something you admire about him). I am so sorry for hurting you. You are not likely to get anything in return for awhile, but that is normal. Consistent and genuine always. Don't force anything.

"I love you so much. I am very happy you are here with me right now." Spur of the moment kind of things can be very effective.

As much as this feels wrong to you, it is his decision to stay. Don't make the decision for him. Let him regain some of his power back.

I am not trying to heap more on you as I can see that you are hurting. I am trying to help you gain a window into what is behind what you have seen lately.

A phase that most BHs go through is a severe self loathing phase. We hate ourselves for staying and that conflict plays out in horrible ways. It is mostly internal, but leaks out as anger. The truth is we are angry with ourselves for not having the "balls," to walk away. That is what we have been taught too in these cases. It destroys our sense of self and any self esteem we have. We feel like less than a man. It is a horrible, soul-crushing feeling.

Building your husband up with positive comments, even to others (when he thinks you don't know he is there is a good one) can help start his individual process. At some point he has to do this on his own. He might just need to be elevated a little to see that it is possible to feel better.

Anger is secondary. Underneath it, is a shell of a very wounded man. He feels scared, alone and worthless.

Trying helping those things, instead of asking for anything right now. Listen to the anger with humility and offer something to address one of those things underneath. Or better yet try that once the anger is exhausted.

Just trying to give you some background based on my experience. Remember if he wanted to leave, he probably would have found a way. Take it day by day. Pressing for anything right now would add to the already crippling fear.

FWIW today I am much better and I am glad I stayed with my W. She moved mountains to give me a reason and showed me that life with her would be better than a life without her. It takes time and some "heavy lifting", but it can be done. Take care.

Thank you all again for your thouhts.
Everything you all have said makes so much sense and we have talked about some of these, like the conflict he has for loving and hating me, for staying or going. We have discussed its so hard for him to believe me.
Just to clarify my baking cookies and saying I love was just my was of expressing my love. I didn't ask him to love me or ask him to stay. One of his love languages is acts of service. So I made him cookies and made them forhim. There has been many times when he has made comments that I make and do things for our son all the time. So I wanted to make sure I did something just for him. There area lot of things I am conscious of now that I was missing in doing for him before. And I am sure,now that I am doing them he probably sees it as manipulation and has inferred as much as some points.
I have allways had a little of that thought process too, if I tell you what to do how can that be love..... Well what I have learnt is if I know what you need and you tell me and I remember and do it then I know I have listened or the other person has heard you. So its an actual conscious effort to make someone feel loved.
Anger yes I understand that.
WE talked again last night. And he once again was upset that he was like that too me. I tried hard to to tell him its okay that he needs to express how he feels. And I will still be here. I am not going anywhere. WE did too discuss some things to try when he feels it building inside of him. So we can maybe talk instead of him going into meltdown cause he feels so bad after words, and I don't want that for him,
So much thinking lately and feeling. I pray someday my husband can find balance and happiness again. That's what I really want for him, with or without me.
Thank you again for your help and support

Numb&Dumb: you hit the nail right on the head for us. I guess we are still in the anger phase as it comes out almost weekly. There are both good and bad days though and I have found that thanking my BS for one more day goes a long way.

As for asking to stay, I try to find reasons to convince my BS that I am working on me, whether its through IC, reading, whatever. The question of "why do we stay together if we're always fighting now" comes up a lot. And all I can answer is that I hope that we won't always fight and we will eventually make it through all of this. My BS is sometimes happy that I am working on myself and other times indifferent or doesn't care (at least that's what she says). It's so hard to know sometimes so I simply try to be as consistent as I can.

Joanh,
In your case I see your request for your BH to stay as genuine, and not as some attempt to manipulate him or save face. In that sense I see nothing wrong with it, coming from a BW.

My WH has asked me to come home many times or said to me I'm welcome to come back when I'm ready, but I always feel like it's because he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy and not because he's necessarily ready to make changes. His words and actions are constantly at odds with one another, so I have no inclination at this point to return home. The sad part is that I WANT to go home; I miss being a family and would love to start my new one with my baby and my H but I just will not allow myself to go back until I know he's serious about changing and actually accepts responsibility for his actions. To this day I don't think he is remorseful for his affairs because in his mind his actions were justified because I didn't give him sex as often as he would have liked or under his parameters. It's disappointing and kind of pitiful to see someone who is so willing to throw away the past 11 years of his life over his pride, but you can't help someone who won't admit they have a problem, right? At any rate, hold your course, be patient, and most of all be sincere; we know when you're not. :) Best of luck to you and your husband.