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Her persistence has shocked me

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Scientist posted 10/7/2013 04:39 AM

From the UK: I don't know where I am from D-Day because I don't know when D-Day was. She told me about the affair in July 2005. It was with a colleague, who surprised me (A real loser - I did not know then that "they always affair down"). Lots of tears, let's start again, please forgive me. So I did. We even had a holiday together to begin to put things right. And it seemed to work
Unfortunately AP did not disappear. He is still a work colleague and they stayed "friends" (I know, what an idiot I was...). Then, on 19th September 2013, WW blurts out that things continued for years after 2005. Can't remember when it ended, probably about 2009. Now she is desperate because AP has found someone else, and just gone on holiday with her, told WW all about the shared bedroom and the fabulous sex (only due to viagra. AP has a problem in that department). WW has clearly been dumped from an EA even if the physical sex finished years ago (though I'm not sure if I believe her about that. Why should I? By her own admission she looked me in the eye every week from August 2005 until early 2009, and lied about where she was, what she was doing, and how AP was just a friend, who really wanted our marriage to succeed).
I honestly do not know what to do. WW is emotional and tearful, but I think it is because of the end of the EA, not because of what she has done to our marriage. I don't know what to do. Should I sit it out? Can it get better? We have been married for 36 years, have 4 grown-up children and a grandchild. Her work is poorly paid, so my well-paid job has subsidised the lifestyle that has allowed her to roam. Despite the high pay, I work close to home, and do not spend time away or evenings at my computer. I maintain our home, and care for her and my family. I even compliment her on her appearance, something her nerdy AP has never done; and I attend events that are part of her work as the loyal husband. If ever there was a case of the cheater being the one who put the least into the marriage this is it. I am really hurt and fed up by her persistent lies, and her patronising comments about our marriage. The AP has shown he can only think through his loins, and now he thinks he has got a better offer, he has dumped WW. WW has decided on NC, but wavered a day or so ago. For the first time ever, I said "It's him or me. Of you see him socially, I am leaving you" (she can't avoid seeing him at work occasionally, but fortunately he is retiring in May 2014, so will then be out of the way). That seemed to work, for now, at least.
I know this is rambling, but its incoherence shows where I am at the moment. There is no reason for anyone to comment, I just feel better having got it out into the open. I am sorry there are so many of us here, and sorry for all the agony we have all had.

jstbreathe posted 10/7/2013 04:59 AM

Scientist, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I feel your pain in your story. Very sad indeed. I just wanted you to know someone is here, listening, and cares.

Bravenewgirl posted 10/7/2013 05:06 AM

Hi scientist,

I am so sorry you are going through this shitstorm, which is not of your own making.

One of the most painful things for a betrayed spouse (imho) is having to watch their wayward mourn the end of the affair.

If she is wavering on NC, she is not remorseful. You should not have to watch her go through her stupid pity party about the piece of shit other man having found a shiny new whore.

She should be offering to quit her job, give you all her passwords, and whatever else you want. If you want her to stand on her head for no particular reason, she should be willing to do it. Anything less will lead to more pain for you.

Can you ask her to leave for awhile while you process all this new horrific information?

The magnitude of the betrayal you have endured is astounding. Please take care of yourself now. Drink water, sleep if you can, eat something, see a doctor if you feel you are going off the rails.

Please keep posting and reading on SI. We have an amazing group of betrayed men on here that you can reach out to. They know what you are going through, and have been there, done that.

I wish you strength and peace.


TheAmazingWondertwin posted 10/7/2013 05:09 AM

Hi- I just want you to know, for me, part of what is helping me through this is being able to post. And there have been some long crazy posts.
I understand that sometimes we just need to get it out and our BS is not always the one we can go to at that moment.
You are safe here and may find some direction and if possible, comfort that what you are feeling is normal.
Another poster once said "welcome to the best club you never wanted to be a part of."
You have support and people that can relate.
My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best.

solus sto posted 10/7/2013 09:48 AM

I am very, very sorry you find yourself in this position. I was lied to over a period of years, as well. When the extent of the deception was revealed, it was decimating.

Your wife's job is low-paying. You've been subsidizing her adulterous choices. (And like you, I doubt that the PA ended. But even if it did, she was committed to that relationship and maintaining secrets about it, rather than your marriage.)

It is time for her to quit that job.

She needs COMPLETE NC with this man, or you will never be able to R.

Right now, she is mourning the affair, not the damage she's done.

She will not achieve remorse or empathy for you, or be able to begin to R, as long as there is contact.

Her secrets and lies are an impenetrable barrier to the emotional intimacy required for reconciliation and a healthy marriage.

I'm so sorry for your pain.

kannan posted 10/7/2013 09:56 AM

For eight yrs you have been living a lie. Do you want to waste your precious time in this marriage?

Inform your children, expose her and POSOM to all, Get tested for STDs and file for D.

She is greiving her loss of OM right infront of you

How much respect she had for you to do this right infront of you?

See the things for what it is and stop being that nice guy and stand for your own needs now.
she never faced any consequences for her betrayal in 2005 but you gifted her with a vacation for her cheating.stop being nice to her,

You actually deserve someone better.

toomanyregrets posted 10/7/2013 10:13 AM

What really hurts is that you trusted her all those years.
Now that trust is gone.

Your WW is scared that she'll loose all she has.

myownmaster posted 10/7/2013 15:08 PM

You need to start focusing on yourself. Mainly your own warped thinking. You have made it clear in your posts that she's not even sure that she would choose you over the other guy (the continued affair in some form and the fact she is already wavering on NC proves this) ....and you're already thinking about them FINALLY not having contact in 2014 as if that's some sort of victory and you guys are gonna make it.....based on what? C'mon man, slow down a bit have some more respect for yourself.

A careless WS like her is probably laughing that not only did she have an affair, not only did she admit to it and then spread her legs open for the other guy for AT LEAST another four years, but now she gets to hang out with him "at work only" for another year or so...she's probably already giggling about when it's 2015 and she's had you believe they haven't even had work contact when really she's still getting fucked by him. You threatened you will leave her if she contacts him outside of you even believe this based on how you've reacted in the past? You said it has stopped her for now....exactly, she's biding her time. She remembers how many times she's played you for a fool already.

You stated she has a low paying job that she clearly doesn't need to work at for you guys to take care of the finances....why are you allowing this to be some sort of creepy made for tv movie instead of just telling her "there is zero chance you work there for one more day unless you intend on getting a divorce"?

At what point does self respect take over for being afraid to do what's necessary to respect yourself? At what point does self respect take over for being her fool?

Sorry for being blunt, but this is coming from someone who didn't want to R after the first dday. Not sure how many people here would consider it after a second dday....and yet you have had a second dday and your line of thinking is "Gee, at least they won't work together by 2014". I'm not worried about your marriage. it's a lie. I'm worried about you and your inability to stand up for yourself.

Not saying she 100% can't change, but you're gonna have to change your tact as well. Allowing them to STILL work together doesn't give me much home that you will. You gotta be willing to blow it all up so that she will even begin to notice that she might not be able to weasel her way out of this and continue on with her double life in some form...then maybe...just maybe she will start thinking about what her priorities aught to be and whether she is willing to do the hard work to R (if she even decides that you are in fact her top priority).

I know this came off as harsh, but it's time you become a little more critical of yourself and what your thought process is in regards to this ordeal. No more listening to her whine about her AP abandoning her (for the time being), no more letting them have contact of any sort, no rugsweeping, no allowing her to refuse IC and MC if you want it, no allowing her to refuse absolute transparency, etc.

It all comes down to whether you believe you are worth more than this and following through with your plan of action. Accepting that getting to where you want to be might not include her at some point along way. That's the reality and you will know whether she has it in her to be there with you at the end or not when you do. Acting on that knowledge is the hard part of course...just respect yourself enough to do what you know you have to.

Sorry, after typing this I feel like I drank too much coffee (I only drink water lol), but I get upset when I see someone getting used and abused like you have.

Bigger posted 10/7/2013 16:17 PM

One of your more famous colleagues once said:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
(Albert Einstein)

I want you to contemplate that quote. What have you been doing to-date to end her affairs and what do you plan on doing today and tomorrow?

lovemy3boys posted 10/8/2013 11:58 AM

I agree! She is no good!

Divorce her and focus on you. I can't believe you stuck it out this long. Your children are grown, let her go and lie to someone else. If you feel bad leaving her with no money then pay for her apartment or something.

If she isn't showing remorse then I would not give her another chance.

heartbroken_kk posted 10/8/2013 21:43 PM

Hi Scientist, welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

One of the things that nearly killed me was my stupidity in not putting my foot down HARD immediately. I wanted to save my marriage!

Well guess what, me being nice to him killed it. It allowed him to walk all over me, to abuse me emotionally, to play games, to develop this incredible sense of entitlement, I could go on.

By telling him I wanted to make our marriage work, I basically told him he could do whatever he wanted and I would suffer with it.

I agree with the others, tell her she has to find a new job. NOW! If she wants the marriage, she puts together her resume, brings it to you, and brings along with it the results of her job search. Get an idea of what her job prospects are. Then tell her she has to get a new job like yesterday.

I don't know the divorce law in the UK, but be prepared that she can take you to the cleaners and get spousal support.

Time to lawyer up. Tell her the marriage is on life support and it will be DEAD with one little blip and she will be out on her ass!

Thinkingtoomuch posted 10/8/2013 22:02 PM


I agree with all the other posters so far. You have put up with over and beyond the tolerance level.

You must stand strong and no more Mr. Niceguy. She will continue to walk over you. Protect yourself and get ready to file D.

It's sick that she mourns this POSOM in front of your eyes, with your own heart hurting over HER. All these years together and she was truly not present with you. I hate that.

Time to get mad!! She needs to quit that job. Don't wait.

Crushed1 posted 10/9/2013 00:15 AM

(((Scientist))) welcome. I am sorry for your pain.

Scientist posted 10/10/2013 03:00 AM

I'm really grateful for these replies. The concern is touching, and also the advice is very consistent. I am not sure if I want to divorce her, though, but I have not given up on the possibility. She is certainly upset at the moment, and full of apologetic tears. I told her I thought she was mainly mourning the end of the EA, but she said that was not true, that she had been incredibly stupid, and wanted to put things right. But she still obviously hasn't a clue about how long that road will be, because she cannot empathise with where I am at the moment.
Any, thanks for the support. It is amazing that people from hundreds of miles away empathise enough to write, when WW is right at home, yet hasn't the first inkling of the damage she has done.

Edie posted 10/10/2013 03:26 AM

her patronising comments about our marriage.

She does sound rather weak and easily led. Now is the time to see what she is really made of. She needs to chuck out all her 'Madame Bovaries' and instead read something like Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends' to begin to get any sense of how you might be feeling. IF she is someone capable of empathy. Which is not yet clear.

As for you, I am very sorry it is not clear whether it is the affair or you, or the comfortable lifestyle that she is afraid of losing. Maybe she is still too complacent about the latter given her actions since 2005?

We here in the UK are not so prone to seek counselling as our friends across the water, but I would recommend this for you: as an outlet for your feelings and as a place to explore whether this marriage continues to have valency for you.

Finally, without a doubt, please read and practise a hard 180. This will help steer you through the shock as well as demonstrating in vivid terms to your wife the consequences of the choices she has made since 2005.

Laura28 posted 10/10/2013 04:16 AM


I'm so sorry you have to be here with us. At our age (I am 57 - 53 at dday) it is the last thing you expect to have to deal with.

The next few months/years will be tough but in essence you, and she, need to decide if you want to have a real marriage, something you haven't obviously had for a long time.

Like your WW, my FWH really had no understanding of the tsunami he had unleashed on our marriage. Waywards rarely do. There were three things that brought him to his senses.

1. I told him that he had to choose me or leave. That his whores (both EAs and PAs) might be willing to share him with me but that I would never knowingly share my H with another woman. I also changed my will - our children get my half of everything. I told him that if he wasn't happy with my conditions he could leave. I haven't changed this and don't intend to. (I hate the thought of him staying because of our finances. So he has nothing to lose financially by leaving or gain by staying).

2. I gave him a copy of the doc below.

I simply copied the section which starts in the first post from:

'Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.'

I put it into a word doc and printed it out and gave it to him. I truly believe this was his "Ah Ha" moment. He really did start to get the enormity of what he had done then.

3. I bought and gave him an excellent book (and a quick read): "How to help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. This is an absolute must in my opinion. I read it first and was amazed at how insightful it was. This also meant that when he commented on some sections I knew what he was talking about.

This is the only book FWH has ever read from cover to cover (and he is almost 60 years old!) and he did it in one afternoon!!! He isn't a reader. It really did have an impact.

Like you I earned much more than him (about 2X as much) and was the best spouse I could be right throughout our M. He was an arsehole for many years and I "stayed with him for the kids" not knowing he had girlfriends on the side for most of our M.

I do think it is harder at our age. However, you have a right to be happy.

Now I choose to stay with FWH because it suits me. He is now a far better H than he has ever been. I am convinced he showered his affection and attention on his girlfriends for many years and just used me. Now he has changed. But time will tell if it is enough for me.

It is a sad situation to realise that after more than 30 years of M you may need to consider separating. It is also frightening. Please remember you do not have to make any decisions now. You have all the time in the world. I am still giving myself time. I tell myself daily that if I wake up tomorrow and decide I do not want this M any more then I can leave with no regrets.

It is up to my FWH to show me he is worth keeping.

When you feel this way about your WW I think you will be more at peace.

Good luck


StillStanding1 posted 10/10/2013 08:43 AM


So sorry you find yourself here. Wish none of us were...

You've gotten great advice already. I know how hard it is to absorb it and consider following it. Your emotions will fight with your rationality for some time to come, I am guessing. Some folks have clarity right away. Some folks get a truly remorseful spouse. And then, some, like me (and it sounds like you) get spouses who are filled with regret and shame, mourn their APs, but never reach the true remorse which is the ONLY thing that makes R possible.

From someone who has moved very slowly to internalizing all this (although I've read it and heard it and wished and projected my hopes onto my WH), it took a while for it to become obvious to me. He just doesn't care enough to do the hard work necessary. That is hard to accept.

Perhaps your WW will turn around. But deep in your heart, if you already feel like she is mourning her AP more than she is concerned for what she did to you, I think you know where her loyalties lie. Take the time to process this information. Like they often say here, you have time. You don't need to make any decisions immediately.

Please do take care of yourself. Eat, hydrate, sleep, and exercise. Put a plan in place in case this doesn't work out. Small steps to establishing your independance. You deserve better than this. Don't settle for anything less than you deserve. Love yourself first.

Wishing you strength and peace.

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