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User Topic: Borderline Personality Disorder
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had my IC appointment today, and was telling her all the new stuff. I told her about the new lies, and about how he said that he's a people pleaser. As I was checking everything new off that I learned, she told me that she thinks he may have BPD. My IC is very, very hesitant to give diagnoses. She said that she will only "label" someone if they really fit all the criteria. I was skeptical. I've had a lot of people post on here about him having narcissistic traits. I've read the articles that people send me, but just haven't really felt like he fit it. But, I just googled BPD, and he fits every category. Here's an article I just read:

The Ten Signs:

1. Comes on very strong and romantic. Borderline men tend to be very sensitive and romantic. In a sense, they are addicted to the notion of romance and love. Initially this can be one of the more alluring qualities of these men. You may even think, "this guy sounds too good to be true." (And just as with all things that sound too good to be true, so is the male borderline.)

--This is very true. He does over the top romantic gestures all the time, and it's why I fell for him

2. Quick to declare his love. A borderline man will sometimes profess his love on a first or second date. In truth, borderline men either have a distorted idea of love, or simply do not know what real love is. It's not that they are necessarily trying to be deceitful, it's just that their idea of love is a very immature one.

--Also true. We were exclusive after three dates, and he was always the first one to do things. He listed us as in a relationship on facebook, told me he loved me after about 1.5 months of dating. I loved these things about him.

3. Substance abuse issues, including alcohol, and drugs like cocaine, marijuana, and all types of pills. Chemical addiction among borderline men is very common. This male is essentially self-medicating himself in order to soothe his deep emotional pain and his feelings of being unlovable.

--No addiction, but I did just found out he smoked pot a lot during the A. And we always drank several drinks every night we were together. I used to make comments about it to him.

4. Overly jealous. Borderline men are very insecure despite their apparent confidence. In relationships, they will react with hostility and jealousy around other males. Borderline men are overly possessive and and exhibit "inappropriate jealousy", meaning they will even become jealous over women that they are not even involved with.

--He is extremely jealous. He would get upset if another guy "liked" something on my facebook.

5. Grandiose. Borderline men tend to be very boastful. They are grandiose in the way they think and talk about themselves. They will brag, exaggerate, and lie about their accomplishments and their abilities. In reality this is merely an attempt to compensate for a very fragile ego.

I joked with him sometimes about saying things that made him sound like "pompous ass"

6. Great lovers. Borderline men tend to be hyper-sexual or even sexually addicted. Women describe them as fantastic and very giving in the bedroom. Since borderline men are generally incapable of true intimacy they will often use sex as a replacement for intimacy or love. In addition, a borderline man will use sex as a way of winning or securing a woman.

--He's the best sex that I've ever had, and the only man that has ever focused on pleasing me sexually

7. The suggestion of a breakup sends him off the "deep end". At the heart of borderline personality disorder is the issue of abandonment. Any indication of a breakup, whether real or perceived, will activate fear, anger, and great sadness in a borderline male. He will even preemptively end a relationship if he feels that a breakup is imminent.

--When he was cheating on me (without me knowing about it), I threatened to break up with him because of his shifting moods. He showed up at my office crying and begging. I had this reaction every time I tried to end it

8. Impulsive and reckless. Impulsivity is another hallmark feature of this disorder. This can include things like excessive gambling, promiscuous and unprotected sex, reckless driving, excessive spending, driving while intoxicated, frequent drug use.

--Sex with a prostitute, cheating without condoms, loves to gamble

9. Bad temper. Because of his lack of self-esteem and his feelings of "insecurity" borderline men are highly sensitive to real or perceived slights or criticisms. In the face of criticism he will often respond with great anger and his anger will often be well out of proportion for the situation.

He would lash out and say mean things on purpose to me to try to hurt me

10. Frequent mood swings. Rapidly changing moods are very common with borderline disorder. This male can go from feeling confident and arrogant to insecure, anxious, and depressed within hours.

I never knew what mood to expect. He'd be over the top sweet one minute, then withdrawn and distant the next minute


He meets every single one of those signs. Reading that article was like a bell went off in my head.

Has anyone dealt with R in a man like this? How did it work out? Successful? Unsuccessful? Why or why not?


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Jul 2013
Deeply Scared
♀ 2
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^bumping^ to see if anyone can help


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198829 | Registered: May 2002
lynnm1947
♀ 15300
Member # 15300
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Borderlines are very difficult if not impossible to treat. The prognosis for them is not rosy.


Age: 64..ummmmmmm, no...............65....no...oh, hell born in 1947. You figure it out!

"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Toronto, Canada
atsenaotie
♂ 27650
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Lonelygirl10,

Has anyone dealt with R in a man like this? How did it work out? Successful? Unsuccessful? Why or why not?

With a man, no, but with a W, yes. Here is another form of a common list of BPD symptoms. In retrospect, my FWW hit most of these:

• Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
• A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
• Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self
• Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
• Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
• Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
• Chronic feelings of emptiness
• Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
• Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms

I see us as successful at R so far as the A-Crap is concerned. FWW (and her OM) never broke NC, and that gave me some time and a safe space to begin to heal and see what would happen next. It was not until about a year after dday, and after I had moved out of the house because of on-going issues, that FWW owned her crap and began the work on her issues. Since then, she has owned her responsibility and fault in her multiple As, and I have healed myself from her betrayal. We just passed our 4th antiversary.

So the A-crap is mostly behind us, and the M is better than it was, but we are a long way from good. FWW is still working on her stuff. A lifetime of maladaptive coping behaviors is a huge thing to change. She still feels suicidal with depression or homicidal with anger, but she no longer cuts so far as I know. Impulsivity is still a problem for her. Emotional and physical intimacy is still difficult for her. The reality is that she will never be “cured”. She will get better. She will learn new coping mechanisms and ways to soothe herself when she is stressed, but the old behaviors will always be there. They are most likely to re-appear at times when she is under stress.

We (I?) had planned to separate and D last year about this time. Then she lost her job, and she has been unemployed since. With a child in college, one on his way, and an upside down house mortgage, I did not see D as a viable option with her unemployed. I know from talking with an attorney what our D would look like. So we are together, and she keeps working on herself.

I have stayed because I do like my FWW, we have 20+ years of children, mortgages, joint (my) retirement, etc. She is working on herself, and things are better. Separating from her and D is a very difficult thing, and life with her, at least for now, is not as bad as having a financial train-wreck just as I am helping my two boys through school. Staying with less unpleasant than D.

If we did not have the children, if we were not so financially intertwined, if we were not so old, I would have left. I may still eventually. A person has to realty want to be healthier and be motivated to get past BPD. Typically there is a whole symphony of issues that need to be resolved, and things like emotional intimacy may never be possible. You are looking at years of work from him, and then risk the BPD symptoms re-appearing at times of stress. With work, he will get better, but not be healed.


LTA FBS 54
dday 10.5.09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4147 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Softcentre
39166
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading all that, I realise that my first fiance was BPD. It didn't end well.

I realised eventually that he had cheated on me at least once and tried to a couple more. Who knows what I didn't pick up on. As time went on, he got more abusive and also self destructive (drugs etc). The final straw for me came when he punched something right in front of my face. But even then I found it difficult to leave.

And when I did,he just fell apart, threatened suicide etc, etc. But had absolutely no remorse for what he did,just that I was leaving him. He then stalked me for a couple of months. When that didn't work,he started spreading untrue rumours about me that he knew would hurt the most, to try and get a rise out of me. Then he stole a friend's girlfriend and got her to befriend me,pretending that they had broken up, to try and get information out of me.

From the moment we broke up,I gave him crickets. But it took a good 6-8 months for him to really disappear. He didn't have any concern for me, it was all about not wanting to be rejected. I can't see that I would ever be able to sucessfully R with someone like that, I would never be emotionally safe with them.

BTW, I also have at least one relative with this too (diagnosed). They know this about themself, it has ruined their relationships, yet they have not worked on themself and almost glorify in the label and use it as a way to portray themselves as a victim to be pitied and as another reason not to work on themselves.


Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' - passive aggressive, tt'ing, gaslighting...multiple EA's with different women (1 'proven') and at least 1 PA

Took a while, but I like the me I am, without him.

"Until God opens the next do


Posts: 1100 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the replies. My IC has never seen him, so he doesn't actually have an actual diagnosis. She just shared that with me based on everything that I've told her. I think he's finally in IC himself now, so maybe he will deal with some of this stuff with his IC. I'm still doing 30 days NC with him.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Jul 2013
ascian
♂ 40304
Member # 40304
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

> Borderlines are very difficult if not impossible to treat. The prognosis for them is not rosy.

As an expansion on this, since the internet seems to start and stop at this description of BPD.

Borderlines have a lot of trouble with therapy because the very nature of their affliction means that they have a very difficult time publicly acknowledging their personal failings. Personal failings == less than perfect == a reason to be rejected. So it's not that the disease itself is untreatable, just that the symptoms tend to push sufferers away from effective treatment.

That said, it is possible to make progress on it if an individual is committed and has a good support network. It's not a guarantee, but it is possible.


Me - BH 39
Her - FWW 36
D-Day: 8/13
Working on R

Posts: 320 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest
HurtsButImOK
♀ 38865
Member # 38865
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Totally unhelpful post probably because I am feeling a little stabby today

My x certainly did not tick off box 6. On the plus side I can discount BPD

I am sorry for your pain, this shit just sucks.


Me: Awesome - 35.... ummm, not anymore

"I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel". –Maya Angelou


Posts: 756 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Australia
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read this from a person with BPD on another site:

When I start relationships with women, it tends to evolve from an impulsive hookup. One of the things people tend to report about borderline women is--for lack of a better word--enthusiasm in the bedroom. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I do believe that this is also the case for men. I tend to be very romantic with women very intensely way too soon into a relationship, and this intensity is what I always mistake for having strong intimacy with a woman. Do you guys relate here?

Another thing I notice about my habits is the perpetual dissatisfaction I have with my relationships. Sex isn't something I generally enjoy, to be completely honest. For me, it is more of a thing you just do, not for mutual pleasure and bonding, but to please her--and from there we become more intimate. I really just tend to be whatever the hell a girl wants me to be, that ultimate man she wouldn't ever want to leave. And despite all the fear of abandonment and wanting her not to cheat on me so badly, I'll be on the lookout all the time for other girls. I'll push back intimacy when it's too much so that I can't just replace it with something else quickly when she leaves. I'll leave first.

I also think the psychological stress of conforming to what they want breaks me down after awhile because I rarely communicate my needs. I have trouble talking about personal information or thinking of myself as someone who deserves anything or even as a person.

The part about being whatever the girl wants him to be really sounds familiar. I feel like that's what wBF did with me. We met online, and I told him exactly the qualities I was looking for in a man. He met every single one of those qualities. But he would occasionally become distant, and I wonder if that's from him just not being able to keep up the act.

I told my IC today that I have no clue who the real him is. She said that she wonders if he even knows that.

I love him very much, and I hope he's able to figure that out about himself.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Jul 2013
LostMySoulMate1
♀ 31833
Member # 31833
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes this is my WS to a tea, its horrible to deal with only he never had drugs or alcohol but everything else on the list so true.


ME:BW42 HIM:WS40 MARRIED19years 2Teens DdayFeb2009.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Australia
silverhopes
♀ 32753
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone dealt with R in a man like this? How did it work out? Successful? Unsuccessful? Why or why not?

Can't answer from a male Borderline PD perspective, unfortunately...

On here, we talk a lot about each person owning their own behaviors and being responsible for their choices and health. This is a situation where that's even more apparently true.

Can he or any person who has Borderline PD work on their behaviors and become healthier people? Yes. The bottom line is, he has to choose to change.

Borderlines have a lot of trouble with therapy because the very nature of their affliction means that they have a very difficult time publicly acknowledging their personal failings. Personal failings == less than perfect == a reason to be rejected. So it's not that the disease itself is untreatable, just that the symptoms tend to push sufferers away from effective treatment.

True. People don't like to think of themselves as "less than". Especially when it comes to a mental illness label, who wants that? To know that's a lifelong label? Denial might seem easier. That's why it's important to focus on the symptoms and behaviors that need changing/management/better tools rather than to focus on the label itself. More effective. Though we do have to own the label at some point.

In a sense, they are addicted to the notion of romance and love.

Yes. Addicted to the chemicals, finding it easy to think it's all about "being in love" and the "Disney" version of it. Some folks might not want to give up the rush of falling in love, even though it isn't sustainable. So it becomes important to develop a new picture/understanding/model of what healthy love looks like and to consistently practice identifying it. Maybe some of us don't know how to picture it - either we grow up with extremes, or we see real love trashed. So we picture the Disney love because - well, Disney's pretty damn visual. It might be a skill we didn't learn. So for a lot of us, we might be learning what it looks like for the first time in therapy. It's necessary to clarify what healthy *sustainable* love is, and then practice it.

Overly jealous.

Yes. That's when reality-testing comes in. Learning what types of jealousy are healthy, what types aren't, and when to let go. To let go of trying to control other people. To learn more about controlling ourselves. But it has to be a goal to only want to control ourselves. We have to really internalize that we're the only ones we control in the world and let go of a lot of attempts to control other things or people. "Codependent No More" is a really good book about learning not to control others, and "Boundaries" by Drs. Cloud and Townsend is a good book on boundaries in general... Boundaries are another thing that many folks with Borderline PD struggle with.

Great lovers.

(Or obsessed with trying to be). Yep. It's kind of an extension of external validation. If we're good at sex, then we're validated as lovers. We're "good" then. It can cover up low self-esteem. It's not just avoiding intimacy; it's also a deep-seated fear that we're not worthy of it. Or that it's impossible to achieve. Like another poster said, a fear of abandonment. You can't really overcome that fear of abandonment until you're able to feel good about yourself while you're completely alone, and until you're able to accept and not take personally another person's absence.

A big core of it comes in working on self-esteem, with a therapist or with a book (any suggestions, anyone?), and in learning a new skill set to manage symptoms. It really helps to focus on symptoms. For example, for folks who suffer from depression - being diagnosed with depression doesn't mean you're always *feeling* depressed; it means you're always *managing* your depression as an overall health condition. Big difference. It's not easy to learn all the skills at once, so it helps to go slowly and thoroughly as you learn them.

Dialectical Behavioral Therapy really helps, if you think he would be interested in it. If you have any questions about DBT let me know.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 9:38 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
StillGoing
♂ 28571
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Check out the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells"


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7569 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Lonelygirl10
♀ 39850
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Codependent No More" is a really good book about learning not to control others, and "Boundaries" by Drs. Cloud and Townsend is a good book on boundaries in general.

I have both of those books, and I'm reading the one on boundaries right now. It's so helpful for me, even though I don't have BPD.

Check out the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells"

I'm not sure if this is the same thing or not, but I used to read several articles by Susie and Otto about that topic. This was before my current relationship, and I found it very helpful to learn how to talk in a non-threatening way. It taught me how to express my feelings to someone in a healthy way. I saw myself doing it a lot with my wBF, but he wasn't as receptive to it. I would phrase things perfectly ("I feel sad because" instead of "you never..."), but he still just saw me as being critical of him. Maybe both people need to read this for it to be helpful.

If we're good at sex, then we're validated as lovers. We're "good" then. It can cover up low self-esteem. It's not just avoiding intimacy; it's also a deep-seated fear that we're not worthy of it. Or that it's impossible to achieve. Like another poster said, a fear of abandonment. You can't really overcome that fear of abandonment until you're able to feel good about yourself while you're completely alone, and until you're able to accept and not take personally another person's absence.

I wonder if that's why he fell into infidelity so easily. We had, in my opinion, great sex before Dday. I did things with him that I had never done before, and there wasn't a single fantasy he shared with me that I didn't do. So it completely confused me why I wasn't enough for him sexually. Maybe I was looking at it the wrong way. Maybe he stopped feeling good enough for me for some reason, and he needed the other girls for validation that he's attractive or wanted.

The last part of what you said is why I'm doing a month of no contact. Even before my IC gave me this label for him, I knew somewhere in my gut that he was terrified of being alone. When he was alone in the past, he did horrible things just to fit in with whoever was around him. So I needed him to really be alone now so I can see if he'll fall back into that pattern again. I'm scared that after a week or two of being alone, he'll start to make new friends with whoever is around, and he'll just mold himself to be like those people. That could include strip clubs, sex, drugs, etc. I want to see if he can actually be alone. There will be times in our future where I can't always be by him, and I can't have a marriage with him if I'm scared he'll do something stupid every time he doesn't feel loved enough. He needs to find his sense of self. I want him to be centered. I want him to know that he has value, no matter what other people think. I'm scared that I'm asking too much of him right now.

I think he's had one session of IC, and his next one is this week. It's hard to know though, because he made up a month of IC in the past that didn't actually exist. I haven't heard of DBT, but maybe his IC will do that.


30 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 13

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