"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

blakesteele posted 10/9/2013 19:57 PM

Anyone have these? This was my first.

I felt pain...pretty powerful pain for about 4 hours today. I did not anger, wouldn't even say I felt really sad...just pain over my wifes A.

I call this a good day because I felt the pain...and that is it. Back when I was in counseling my counselor kept telling me to lean into the pain, feel the pain....push away the anger...feel the pain.

I have done that some but it almost always leads me to anger at some point or crying sadness.

Tonight I felt a bit agitated...but so did my wife. Still...no anger....just frustration.

Anyone relate to this type of day?

I am 13 months out. Right now I don't feel any different about where I am at...so not sure what, if anything, I processed.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:59 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

LosferWords posted 10/9/2013 20:03 PM

Yes, I have had these days.

I kind of view the pain in waves. The waves gradually get smaller and further apart as time progresses.

Pain is all part of the healing process, too.

Take care.

jjsr posted 10/9/2013 20:06 PM

I think its pretty normal even at 13 months. The days will get less and a bit easier if you both are doing the work.

blakesteele posted 10/9/2013 20:11 PM

But pain without crying, without anger, without any noticeable change afterwards....that is normal?

To be sure I did not have any ah-ha moments at all today....nothing new at all. I get that change within me takes weeks to comparatively notice....but experience extreme pain in this manner is new to me. Seems like I should have something to show for it at the end of it...shouldn't I?

mellie99 posted 10/9/2013 20:27 PM

I'm having a hard time dealing with the hurt. I had to do something tonight that might do irreversible damage to my relationship, though my H left me with little choice. (As to not t/j I will not go into it here but if anyone cares to read my latest entry in my 'Afraid I might mess up R' post it's there). Right now I'm bracing myself for the backlash, and beginning to mourn what I feel maybe be the beginning of the end for us.

It hurts so much that all I ever wanted was love and respect...why is that too much to ask? What is so wrong with me that I wasn't enough? Why did he feel the need to treat me the way he did all those years and think it was okay, and worse yet, why did I let him? I don't want to be alone, I don't want to raise my baby alone, but right now I think that's inevitable, and I'm heartbroken. I've been dodging this pain for so long and now it's come to a head. I don't know how feeling like this can ever be a good thing; I feel so empty. How is a person supposed to work past pain like this?

blakesteele posted 10/9/2013 20:58 PM

(((mellie99)))

Threadjack away...my post was kind of a nothing post anyway...just a new to me feeling with no discernible outcome.

I hope you will post what is your heavy load today...either here our on a stand alone post.

God be with you.

blakesteele posted 10/9/2013 21:08 PM

What is so wrong with me that I wasn't enough? Why did he feel the need to treat me the way he did all those years and think it was okay, and worse yet, why did I let him?

I felt both of these things. The first part....the I wasn't enough part. Gently...and I know you have heard this before...your husbands affair was and is not about you. It is about him...why did he choose to have his A? You are both in the same marriage...why did he not work within his marriage to fix what is wrong with him? You could not have loved him more, had sex more often, lost enough weight, gained enough bra size, supported his hunting trips more often, etc.. enough to keep him from cheating. We only control ourselves. We influence each other...but the final choice is up to the individual. I would venture to say he never asked you if you were okay if he sleeps with other women. If you never had an input on that choice you are not responsible for his making it. KWIM?

The second part....why did you let him treat you like this?

That IS about you. I have no answer on this one...the first question was childs play...just about every member on here would give the same answer, and you would find the same answer in tens of books (I have read them all!), and most counselors would give you the same answer within the first 20 minutes of your first session.

But this question...the why that pertains to us....that is a real tough question.

I look back on my marriage now and I wonder why I did what I did. I am not rewriting history when I say I very much gathered while my wife waited. I thought it was all done out of love....but have since discovered at least part of my WHY is that I have a fear of abandonment in me.

This fear has caused me to busy myself, to over achieve...all in a vane attempt to keep from being abandoned. This same fear was at play upon my DD. I am embarrassed to say I consoled my wife, coddled her, assured her that we could work this out. 1 month later I was far enough out to be totally disgusted by my behavior that I decided to see if I could find my WHY.

IC sessions were key for me to do this.

God help me....I lived much of my life in fear...and didn't even know it.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:11 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

StillStanding1 posted 10/9/2013 21:27 PM

If it's okay, blake, I'd like to follow that latter train of thought...

The fear of abandonment issue. I've been doing a lot of my own soul-searching for my own "why"s. I've decided that, while everyone talks about the WS and the AP being broken, I see that I was broken too. I really was. I had to be to also accept crumbs from a broken man.

As I've delved into my own introspective analysis, I've discovered that I seem to have fear of abandonment issues. But I can't figure out why? My parents were good parents and have been M 50 years. Where did this come from?

I can easily see where my WH would have this fear... His parents D'ed early in his childhood. Stepdad abandoned them when he was 15 due to alcoholism. His dear Grandpa, his major male role model, died that same year. His first GF cheated on him... His fears, I would easily find a reason behind.

Mine, I can't figure it out. Or is it just low self-esteem? IDK. You've done more reading than me on most topics... Just curious if you have any thoughts...

(((mellie99))) Your second paragraph came straight from my heart through your words. I will go read your post and respond there...

mellie99 posted 10/9/2013 21:54 PM

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Blakesteele, long story short because my H has been going out of his way to skirt his financial obligations to myself and our baby due next month, I finally broke down and emailed his commander (he is active duty AF). I told him everything that has happened, including his affairs and mistreatment over the years. I got a call back from his commander within a few hours, and he was very sorry that I was dealing with all this and says he will take care of my husband personally, as someone needs to talk to him man to man and knock some sense into him. I have held on to my husband's secrets for the entire length of our marriage; no one knew the extent of what has occurred until I left. I've tried so hard to protect him and his career, and now I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop as he has no clue yet what I did. He's going to be pissed, especially since he feels that I'm the one keeping us from healing because I keep taking action to make sure baby and I are cared for. I know it's irrational for me to feel guilty but I just can't help it.

And to answer the question of why I allowed things to happen for so long, I think it stems from my own feelings of inadequacy and fear of failure. Even now I feel like I failed as a wife, even though I know my relationship was bad and that the fault didn't lie with me. Even now as my H claims I'm keeping him from the opportunity to be a good father yet makes no positive efforts otherwise I somehow blame myself, and I'm working very hard to stop those thoughts. Hopefully things will improve as I continue with IC, and I thank you and this entire community for all the love, support, and smacks of sense I have received over the past few months.

Scubachick posted 10/10/2013 00:47 AM

I was feeling exactly like this all day. I even thought to myself how strange it was to feel the pain but no anger. Then my husband ruined it for me at dinner.

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 05:04 AM

Stillstanding1...my fear is easily traced back to my parents D. As a 12 year old boy I hardly ever saw my parents fight or even be overly cold to each other (never saw them lovey dovey though either). Then the D happened and almost overnight my Dad disappeared from my life. At age 22 I flew out to see my Dad with my then GF now W...his first sentence to me when we had alone time?....What do you want from me?....my answer....a relationship.

Back to your question....I am not sure all the reasons a fear of abandonment can establish itself. I do feel this fear is tied to self esteem...afterall, it left me feeling like I had no value to Dad.....so maybe you don't have abandonment issues, but maybe there was traumatic experiences in your life that damaged your self esteem, besides the A? The A is enough to destroy self esteem all on its own...that is a major player in RA...but you are referencing your marriage pre-A, so that isn't a player.

Sorry...I have read a lot, but still lack full wisdom on this.

my own feelings of inadequacy and fear of failure

mellie99...I also took tests this year that suggest I am an over-achiever and have perfectionist tendencies. After those results I read up on what that really means and how I can have those traits. Was surprised to have them because I never felt like I had to be top-of-my class or like I was doing anything besides having a strong work ethic. I also took on new experiences and challenges without guarantees of success with regards to work projects, water skiing, etc.

BUT, once I started reading about these traits it didn't take me long to realize there are more then the stereotypical definitions for them.

I believe I have some of both of these in me. I think it ties into fear of abandonment. I wrestle with this crazy notion that if I do more then is expected of me or someone in my position (over achieving) I have a greater cushion between me and getting fired. I wrestle with when I do something I want to achieve it flawlessly...because if I do something with flaws, those flaws will cause a person to leave me.

Yeah, its embarrassing to find this about myself. It is shocking to see myself in such a new light. It is something to realize how broken I am in the wake of being hurt so deeply by my wifes decisions.

everyone talks about the WS and the AP being broken, I see that I was broken too

The up-side of this shit? That I am aware of my issues, that they are a part of me, and that I can modify and change me. I have started where it is easiest...at work. I sit on my hands more at staff meetings and no ill effects have happened (have not been fired!).

Of course I wouldn't be fired...to those who don't have this FofA issues this must sound insane....and it is insane...but it is real.

By living like I lived I was constantly planning for the future and worst case scenarios....not bad in moderation. But my own fears were robbing me from enjoying the present. The pay off to me over modifying this aspect of my life is that my life is actually improving in spite of the status of my M. I actually enjoy spending time with our dog, take her on rides with me...stuff I did years ago but got out of the practice of doing. Fishing is becoming more of an interest for me (not feeling guilty about spending time and money on that hobby). Being child-like with my wife...poking her playfully occasionally....so my M is improving.

The list is long and growing on what I stopped doing....not all tied to FofA...just think I was getting so far off balance, my wife felt this too thus her choice to have an A, that I was giving up lots of fun stuff in a vane effort to hold onto my M and keep my family intact. I see now I was doing lots of stuff that had no bearing on the state of my M, but it was the only thing I could think to do.

Once a person knows better they can choose to do better.

That is why my guilt is in check. I did not know any better in the past....I did the best I could. I am grateful for my opportunity to learn more so I can do more...and that is NOT over achieving. That is achieving what normal people do in healthy marriages.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:26 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 05:10 AM

Scubachick....yeah, had kind of a crappy night with my wife too. Had a discussion about clarifying how each other felt...turned into a Yeah, BUT type of conversation that is not productive. Neither of us really validating the other, kinda got lost in the middle about what we were even trying to do....just fizzled out at the end....both of us feeling worn out.

Even then I got aggravated, but would not classify it as angry.

Was this your first day of feeling pain but no other strong emotion scubachick? Can you state you had an ah-ha moment at all?

I guess it is odd to me because the pain was super strong and yet it was so....empty? Again, there was no trigger involved, no mind movies, no specifics...but a pain like I had been cut from my belly button to my throat....but when I looked down there was no cut.

I prayed and texted my wife and my best friend to pray for me too. It helped...didn't know what else TO do (maybe that was what my take home message was?). Even if I had a counselor still...I wouldn't know how to describe this to here any better then I have in this post.

I am peaceful this morning. Have a big day planned with my board of directors....annual tour with them to show them my various projects. I really enjoy this day...I am so grateful for my good job.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:13 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

cantaccept posted 10/10/2013 05:31 AM

Hi blake,

We are not on the same path today!

I have definitely not felt that yet.

I feel pain, oh yeah, but I still melt down to tears.

Strange but my anger never seems to come out, it morphs almost instantly to pain or sadness, lots of tears.

I guess I should start looking at that, where is the anger?

If you have time read my post from this morning.

I hope.

Have a great day today.

cantaccept posted 10/10/2013 05:40 AM

It seems we were both responding at the same time!

A good day for both of us.

On the same path, just different mile markers.

Hope is good, it keeps us going.

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 07:06 AM

Okay....just got through a long period of crying.....so roller coaster still running. THIS is NOT new to me.....yesterday was new to me.

I am okay now....and am grateful for my job and this fun day.

....still close to ya cantaccept.

Keep the faith.

Thanks for the support!

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:08 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 07:12 AM

Anger is a secondary emotion....it got in my way. I am glad it is not always present now. Anger was all I felt during my rage phase. Cantaccept....did you ever experience rage or anger for days on end? I should know that answer because I follow your posts...but can't recall.

cantaccept posted 10/10/2013 07:31 AM

No, never for any period of time. It seems like just brief glimpses, then the crash into pain.

I have never truly felt any sustained anger in my life for anything that was done to me. I have felt anger over things done to my children but never for me.

While h was gone, I would have brief periods, maybe 5 minutes. It was such a foreign feeling, in a way it felt good because it relieved the pain for those few minutes.

I remember wishing that I could sustain it because it was so much easier to bear than the pain.

Probably not healthy, I am not sure, will talk with IC.

I do know, I remember learning as a child how dangerous anger was. If I expressed anger I was beaten. If my father was angry, I got beaten. Pretty strong lessons on anger I guess.

I've never really thought much about my lack of anger until recently. I did read, somewhere, in some book, "to not feel anger is as dangerous as not feeling physical pain, it's there to protect ourselves" loose translation. Now I do see how it makes sense.

Have absolutely no idea how to have anger. Maybe it's there and I just don't recognize it, stuff it.

Tonight at IC, I will explore.

Now, today, I am going to try so hard to FOCUS ON WORK. I have been so off. Yesterday I was thinking that I should confess to my boss about what a terrible employee I have been. Probably not a good idea, I need my job. So, I am going to work on being the employee that they have always relied on. I think I have been relying on my past performance, can only do that for so long and it will be noticed. I don't like being like this, it makes me feel guilty, so I need to make myself proud of myself in this.

Action! Off to work, I will be productive today!

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 07:50 AM

Anger was hard for me to...because if I got angry my wife would abandon me more.

Yeah, look how insane THAT statement is. IC helped me see that in the insane light it needs to be in.

I pray that your IC sessions will shine a similar light for you.

blakesteele posted 10/10/2013 08:18 AM

I am 13 months out. Right now I don't feel any different about where I am at...so not sure what, if anything, I processed.

Felt I needed to qualify this statement. I have processed MUCH over the past 13 months...in a very very different spot then I was.

What I meant by this quote is that this "new to me" feeling of pain without crying, anger, saddness doesn't appear to be serving any purpose. At the end of the day yesterday I didn't feel I had processed or changed in any way.

Just wanted to clarify.