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I told my wBF last Thursday that I needed 30 days of NC. He told me a TON of new confessions about prior lies and ongoing lies, and it was just the breaking point for me. The way that I saw him is that he cannot be alone and that he is terrified of being abandoned. When he was in Argentina for a month, he slept with another girl. When he was feeling insecure in December, he slept with a second girl. When he thought he might lose me after Dday, he created a dating profile while trying to win me back. I needed to see that he could actually be alone for 30 days and not go out and sleep with someone. That was what I needed to feel safe with him in the future.

He contacted me on Saturday, and then I hadn't heard anything from him since then. He sent me three emails tonight, and four text messages. I'm angry that he didn't respect my boundary, but I'm also questioning the things that he said in the email and whether he may be right. But the thing is, there was so much manipulation before last week (fake counselor, fake ADs) that I don't know whether this is also manipulation. Here's some portions of his email (talking about his IC):

We also talked about the 30 days No Contact. He said that he had never heard of it. He said it seemed counter-intuitive. He said that if we wanted to the relationship work we should spend more time together and try to talk more. He said he would like us to do emotionally focused therapy together.

I told him all of your reasons for wanting the no contact for 30 days and he said it would only make it more difficult for us to recover after the fact. He said there is a lot of shock and trauma initially after finding out about the affair that we have to deal with. He said that initially in some cases he will tell one of the people in the relationship to take some time to themselves to determine whether or not they want to work on the relationship. Once they start working on it they need to be dedicated to working on it.

Thirty days of NC is not a "treatment." It was something that my IC suggested in order to help me develop my sense of self and to test him to see whether he's a safe partner. But... I do see how being together and communicating makes working out better/easier. The thing is though is that I tried that for six months, and got nowhere. He was lying to me for six months while I was communicating and trying to work things out. I feel like his IC is trying to make me seem like the bad guy to him now because by me asking for 30 days NC, that means that I don't care about the relationship? Am I reading that right, or overreacting? I very much care about the relationship.

Another thing:

I also told him how your counselor said that I may have Borderline Personality Disorder. He seemed stunned. He said several times that he sees no signs of me having that. He said he has only known me for a few hours but there were would be no reason for him to believe that. He says professionally he has only seen 1 case where the person would be diagnosed with that. He gave an example of somebody with BPD might process an event. He said, "Imagine that you are picking up _____ to go to a movie at 7pm and you arrive at her house and she isn't there. You text her and ask her where she is. She replies back that it will be 7:30 before she gets there. He said it would be normal to be upset that you might miss the movie. But a person with BPD would wonder "how could she possibly do this to me, how could she abandon me, how could she cut me this deeply." He said that they are incredibly unstable in emotions and have evidence of this behavior in all of their relationships. He also wanted to know your counselors credentials and said it was very uncommon for a therapist to suggest a diagnosis that is lifetime on a person that she has never met and when she is only getting information from one source.

My IC didn't diagnose him. She actually refused to label him in any way until this week, even though I had asked her about a ton of different personality disorders. My IC is licensed. And I do see those traits in him. There have been times in the past where I've been napping when he texted me, and I'll get 20+ texts from him freaking out wanting to know what's wrong and why I'm not responding. So I do very much see a fear of abandonment in him. Which is again why I asked to do the 30 days NC, to test if he could actually be alone for 30 days.

I'm feeling like the bad guy now. I'm feeling like since I asked for 30 days NC, I'm the one that doesn't care about the relationship. I'm the bad guy. I'm the one giving up on him. I'm the one giving up on us. And that makes me so angry. I stayed by his side after Dday. I begged and pleaded for him to go to IC. I begged for MC. He just kept lying to me, and now his IC is making me out to be the bad guy!

I don't even know what to do with this email. There is a huge part of me that wants to respond. There's a huge part of me that wants to go to the counselor with him. But there's an even bigger part of me that's terrified that this is just more manipulation. Do I say no to him? Do I say yes? Do I not respond at all?

I'm so frustrated. I thought that he understood what I needed. I thought he respected what I needed. And now I'm feeling like the bad guy again. I'm so tired of feeling like the bad guy because I have put so much work into this relationship.

And this is exactly the type of stuff that pulls me in. I've been doing reading on boundaries, and I see that my main boundary problem is not wanting to hurt other people by saying no. So I can see exactly how this is playing out for me right now. I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

Is his IC right? Am I doing the wrong thing? Was my IC wrong?

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 9:31 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

First, Google theraputic or trial separation. Its definitely not a new thing.

Second my husband is PD with 90% narc traits. That's flat out wrong. I could scan in and email part of his psych report for you if you wanted.

Third, its flat out total manipulation.

Crickets.

You are not wrong, your IC is not wrong. His if he exists is, but also remember if his IC is real, he's probably lying his ass off and manipulating. I thought this was like his first or second session, how could his IC even say he's *not something.

If the IC this time is real, it's his second session.

I typed up a response to his email, and now I'm debating on whether to send it or not. I think I'm going to sleep on it before I make a decision.

My IC told me that a month apart is very little compared to the rest of our lives, and that a month apart shouldn't make a difference in the outcome of our relationship. She said that if the relationship can't work after a month apart, then it wasn't a very strong relationship. That's what I keep repeating to myself.

But I'm just feeling like the bad guy by what his IC told him. I feel like his IC is going to convince him to leave me because I'm not committed to R. I was so committed to R. I did everything that I knew how to do.

I'm feeling powerless right now. If I email him, I'm sacrificing my boundaries. If I don't email him, I'm scared he's going to walk away and not wait the 30 days.

He's giving his IC his version. He's also giving you his version of what his IC said. If he said it at all.

Don't send it, pm me your email if your comfy and I will send you some stuff from the psych report in the morning.

I tried to PM you, and it says that you're at your limit.

I'm going to sleep on the email. I'm actually out of town all day tomorrow for work, so that will distract me from having to respond for a little longer too.

I'm kind of thinking that it's been a week, and he's starting to get scared of being alone. And so he's trying to convince me to see him this weekend.

Before I got these tonight, I was thinking about how much I missed him. And now I'm just feeling scared that if I don't respond to him, he'll freak out and sleep with someone this weekend because he'll think that I abandoned him.

If he does that, its on him. You were extremely clear.

Samantha, clear your PMs so LG can pm you! She is having a tough time :)

Now I'm worrying that his IC is right, and I should be going to counseling with him instead of asking for NC.

I've read so many success stories on here where people were able to work things out after one partner left. By me doing NC, is that me giving up? Is his IC right?

He just sent me another email. I guess he read this post. It says:

Don't respond to my email. I was being honest but its ok. I'm trying to do more of the non-violent communication.

You have a real legitimate need for 30 days of NC I guess. I may not fully completely understand it, but I should be willing to meet that need.

Don't worry about responding to me. I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

I love you, and I will meet your need.

You can reset the 30 day timer if you want to. I'm really sorry for the previous lies and how its brought us to this but I can accept it.

That is encouraging to me, and lifted some of the pressure I was feeling.

All this stuff is so hard. My gut instinct was to respond, and the only reason I didn't was because of the chapter I read tonight in my boundary book where I learned that I do a lot of things out of fear.

I'm still tossing around in my head whether his IC is right though... And I'm still scared that his IC will convince him to leave me.

My boundary book says that I need to accept that saying no may cause people to leave me. That I can't control other people's actions, only my own.

This is so hard.

I will clear out.

I hate that he's got insight into your mind right now.

Honey, I think this thread contains the reason why you went NC. You can't think clearly when he is messing with your head.

Give him crickets and hang out with yourself. Figure out what you need, what you deserve, what your ideal relationship would be like. Take up a new hobby, make a new friend, join a book club or volunteer.

Can you be alone for 30 days? I do think it's a good test of emotional stability.

I'm clear!

Honey, I think this thread contains the reason why you went NC. You can't think clearly when he is messing with your head.

My sentiments exactly!

There is such a thing as a therapeutic separation (such as what you've requested), and if his IC has never heard of such a thing, his IC is an idiot. It has been my experience, and I've also read it happening here repeatedly to other people, where the WS makes all kinds of nonsense claims of what their IC said. "Oh, the IC said you're not supposed to be like this. My IC said s/he has never heard of such a thing. My IC says I'm not like what you say." It's just another way to abuse you, by twisting the words of their IC or outright making it up.

The fact that your WBF was unable to even go a week without breaking your very reasonable request for some space & time apart speaks volumes about what a selfish, immature asshole he is.

I don't know what to think. I looked up his IC, and he is a licensed marriage counselor who also used to be a family court mediator. My head is spinning in circles, and you're right that this is partially why I needed 30 days of NC. I think I requested it for two reasons. First, to see if he could actually go a month without sex. And second, because my head was spinning in circles from all the lies that I couldn't even believe the truth when I actually heard the truth.

So I don't know if he's telling the truth about what his IC said or not. I'm still worried that if I don't respond, he'll give up on me. But I know that is my fear talking.

I don't think he's an asshole. I think he just misses me and he's trying to do everything possible to get me back.

I'd set the NC clock right back to zero.

Look at this:

1. Not respecting your NC boundary, which is for YOUR own good.

2. Undermining your thoughts to "get you to do something" for his own benefit.

3. Reading this post in order to figure out what to say next (this place should be safe for you)

4. Back tracks on original message after reading here. (doesn't seem sincere and more like what he thinks you and those advising you *want* to hear.

These are 4 major red flags...without even taking into account the avalanche of other issues that brought you here.

This relationship seems so unhealthy.

Keep reading your boundary book.

I'm still worried that if I don't respond, he'll give up on me.

Yes he uses that fear. In fact he planted that little seed for you.

Don't worry about responding to me. I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

That is not what healthy love looks like.

You aren't getting the time you need to see what life can be like without his influence. Perhaps he is afraid you might like it?

You always have the option of attending your BF's IC, or meeting with him separately. I did this. There are pros and cons to this, but in your case, where we're not even sure if he's telling the truth about seeing someone, I think it may be a good idea. Does the IC know about the lying about ADs, for example? That's pretty twisted. But only consider this after your NC. You need to block his emails, or it's not really NC.

And personally, I think you should dump the guy. Who needs this drama? He's just causing you grief. Get out while you can, before you get dragged down even further by this manipulative loser.

[This message edited by Blobette at 7:37 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

Hi Lonelygirl10,

Now I'm worrying that his IC is right, and I should be going to counseling with him instead of asking for NC.

No, you are fine. Couples therapy is not what is needed after an A. The wayward spouse (boyfriend) needs IC to work on his issues, why he turns to sleeping with OW when away from you, why he prepares an online dating profile when he feels he may lose you. Why is he not OK with himself? Until he understands these reasons and is working on solutions, he is not able or ready to be a fully functioning participant in an emotionally intimate relationship.

Meanwhile, you as the betrayed GF need time to absorb what you have learned, accept what has happened, process your feelings, and begin to heal. You do not need your wBF for this, as he has shown to be manipulative and untrustworthy. As you get some distance emotionally, and process your feelings and new reality you may decide that you see your wBF doing the hard work to fix his issues, and you are willing to stick around for 3, 6, 12 months to see if he sustains the change. OTOH, you may get some distance and realize you have been compensating a lot for his shortcomings in the relationship, and that you are ready to leave the relationship.

MC (couples counseling) is not needed or of benefit until you have progressed through your feelings, have regained trust in your wBF, and are prepared accept your wBF as a full member of the relationship, AND your wBF has identified and owned his issues that led to his As, and he is well into making progress on addressing these issues with new behaviors and perceptions.

I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

So this seems like as good a place as any for you to begin your work. Why does this scare you, and why are you concerned about a person who has betrayed you so severely leaving you? Why does your saying no “hurt” him? Did you wait 30 days while he was in Argentina? (he didn’t)

I think he just misses me and he's trying to do everything possible to get me back.

No, he is trying to manipulate you to come back on his terms. Doing everything possible would be much less telling you why and how you are wrong, and instead telling you what he has learned about how he was wrong, and what he can/is doing to fix himself, and thanking you for giving him opportunity.

best wishes,

--Ats

ETA: I missed that he is reading your posts on SI and using your thread to by-pass your NC request. In my opinion he is certainly putting his wants ahead of your needs.

I think you should look at who he is. Not who you thought that he was in the past, not who you hope he may be, but the him you see right now. Then, ask yourself if this is a person you can or even want to build a life with?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:28 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

Interesting...that an hour and a half after you posted this thread,he contacts you letting you know he has read it. It's almost as if he sent those emails..then watched SI for your reaction..so he could then determine his response..this is pure manipulation..and you know it. You WANT to believe otherwise,but you know better.

His email is all about him. Still. It has nothing to do with respecting you or your needs. He is telling you that you are wrong and so is your IC. His IC is only hearing his side of this. Just because this IC has been in business for many years..does not mean he is qualified to handle infidelity. We see it all the time on here..many IC's seem incompetent when it comes to reconciliation after a betrayal of this magnitude.

I don't believe he just misses you and is trying to do anything he can to get you back. If this were true,he would respect your wishes.

You have been trying to R for the last 6 months..during this time he has lied about the past and the present..he has been manipulating you all along..he has treated this like it's a game. All you asked for was honesty.

Honestly..who cares what HIS IC said?? YOU have an IC,one that you feel is very capable,and you know your own mind. He is trying to tell you he knows what is best for you...he's done a pretty shitty job of doing what is best for you so far,hasn't he?

Block him. Email him one more time and tell him the 30 day NC starts over..today..and then block him. He has shown you he doesn't care what you want..this is just another example in a long line of many..so the chances of him respecting your request are slim to none. So YOU take control of your life and this situation. Block him.

It is not mean to do what is good for you. It is not mean to try to clear your head so you can make healthy choices.

[This message edited by confused615 at 7:51 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

This is so disappointing to learn.
i'd hoped he was better than this, on so many levels.

I won't go out and sleep with somebody this weekend.

It's not a hall pass; it's not Ross & Rachel "yes, I slept with OP but we were on a break."

I thought the purpose of 30 days NC was for each individual to work on his/her respective issues (yes, you both have issues.)

Grow up! Don't use SI as a covert message board.

If you need an analogy: military families deal with NC frequently during deployment.

It's possible to survive separation. It's possible to survive infidelity.

But you need to resolve individual issues if you want to be a healthy couple.