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ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/11/2013 08:21 AM

Well, I'm sitting in a coffee shop, trying to figure out next steps. Confronted WW on Sunday 9/29. Confessed to the affair being a mistake, tried all the other denial stuff like it wasn't physical, etc. etc. Pretty much the same crap that all others have pretty much heard that are in our situations

Marriage has been strained for at least 3 years. For me I made my job and career a priority, which led me to neglecting her emotional needs. Not saying i'm responsible for the act of taking on an affair, i'm just acknowledging what is something in own in our relationship.

For me i woke up one morning in June and realized what i was doing in my career wasn't making me happy, i was miserable, all my relationships around me we not where i wanted them. I had traded all the things that made me happy for ladder climbing and money.

So i said if this is what i have for the next 25 years i need to change something, and that starts with me. So started seeing IC, to help me work on handling my stress at work and my help me get unwound from being so career focused and help me to re-discover who I was as a person. I actually had become something in the last 5 years that i didn't recognize. I was unhappy.

WS and I had talked many times that our relationship needed work and that she felt i needed to get myself happy and be happy with who i am before i could really be able to be affective in our relationship. Made sense to me so I went on a personal journey, and she went on a affair journey (some anger here). What I can say is that over the last 3 months I have rediscovered myself and Iím actually happy with who I am. Iíve spent much time on myself and journaling. I can honestly say that for the first time in at least 5 years Iím in a really good place mentally, spiritually, and emotionally (w/exception of this pile lying in front of me)

Ok so that cover sort of my background. While Iím on my self discovery, WS starts hanging out with old friends from back in single days. Starts to play softball as it is a passion. I didnít think anything about it, sheís tremendous athlete. Then 2nd week doesnít want me to come watch, red flag # 1. To make story short did all the similar checking etc people do and then caught WS and confronted with evidence on 9/29.

There has only been a ďit was mistakeĒ, and ďI canít begin to tell you how sorry I amĒ. Iím not a fool and I know that the revelation has only driven this underground even more. Iíve read so much over the last couple of weeks I really donít know what I should do as a next step. I love the reconciliation success and inspiration; however, I read lots of post and is just seems that what everyone goes through is such bull and that the R process seems to be more difficult and trouble for what appears to be such a low % of success. We donít have children so maybe for couples with Kids the R process is the best path.

Currently I just not sure what to do, ask the WW to leave and file for D. She has shown no remorse, and I received very little in the way of an apology. Iím not really sure what Iím looking from her at this point. I have told her that I want to try to save our marriage. In my opinion, the D decision is hers to own right now.

She says he is confused and doesnít know what she want or what to do. She doesnít want our relationship to go back to the way it was, I told her I can never go back to the way it was. Our relationship is forever changed, whether it is for the better or not is up to us.

I think I should take some of the advice of others on this forum and ask her to leave and tell Iíll file the D papers as a wake up call. Because I donít see this A ending on itís own anytime soon, too much research says it wonít. Iím not really into financing her single lifestyle w/o consequences. Iím not a doormat, but Iím scared at the same time.
Iím thankful for this forum, because if you havenít been through this, you canít really understand what a BS is going through.

Last night WS asked me if I thought we could every find our way back together again. I said yes, and she wanted to know why. I was trying to fall asleep so I asked if we could talk more later. I need to make sure I get rest and can still function at work, I really donít need to have my job fall apart too.

The reason for her question is because she says that she doesnít feel that connection to me that she had before. She said she lost the connection in 2012 b4 the A. She started the A in August only after in May she made the mental decision that the relationship was dead and I wasnít going to change. The thing she said she didnít see coming was the personal change that I undergone since I started my personal re-discovery so now she is really confused because she isnít sure if she should move on or stick around and work on the marriage, because she that we have 8 years invested in our lives.

Iím open to others thoughts opinions and commentary. I just donít know what to do right now and I donít know how much time I should sit in this place of limbo.

ascian posted 10/11/2013 10:27 AM

For me, the question I had to answer right away was "What do I want?"

It took me a couple days between discovery and confrontation -angry, upset-stomach-filled days - but once I had that answer I could see where to go.

In my case, I wanted to stay married. I loved (and still do) my WW, and I knew what I needed from her to continue the marriage. So when we talked I was able to say "I need you do do X, and Y" and so on.

She agreed to my terms, we're getting MC set up and she will probably have her IC set up once she transitions to a new job (unrelated to the affair, just one of those "doesn't life love to throw complications" things) later this month.

But the fact that I knew what I wanted was really the linchpin for me. So I guess my question to you would be, and be as blunt as you want in your answer: "What do you want?"

hard_yards posted 10/11/2013 14:20 PM

Don't be scared....

Whatever the outcome going forward, things will get better, honestly.

From the position of ten long years down the track, here's my thoughts.

I'm seriously impressed with the amount of introspection you've given your life, and the changes you've made to make it a better place - what a pity your wife went in the opposite direction.

If you could take the emotion of it for a moment, if this was a business deal, with a partner failing to commit to their responsibilities, what would you do? Buy them out? Dissolve the partnership?

R is long, it's hard, it has it's own pitfalls.

There are essential components to R, with the main one being two involved and committed partners. Truth and honesty are also non negotiable.

Right now, your wife is offering you none of the above. She is not being truthful, she is not being honest and she's still having an affair.

You have nothing to work with here, you cannot R on your own.

At three weeks out, you're still very early in the processes that we all go through. Resentment, anger, disgust at her behaviour.... doubt, mistrust... all take a very heavy toll, and are just about unavoidable.

Please don't make the mistake of letting your WS think she has the last say in what happens from here on.

With the benefit of hindsight, what I think would be a sensible plan for you, is to file for D (doesn't mean you end up D), separate out your finances, read and study hard the 180 (it's in the Healing Library, top left hand corner of the page) to make yourself stronger in dealing with this.

If your WS isn't sure about continuing in your marriage, then show her what life without your support will really be like. She might have felt like she wasn't getting what she wanted out of the marriage as it was, but she was still getting the comforts of it's benefits.

If the AP is married, definitely inform his wife, she has the right to know what is happening in her marriage too. Once the affair is not a secret any more and the need for hiding and deception gone, the A generally looses it's appeal, and of course, two sets of eyes on their behaviour is so much better than one.

As there are no children involved with you and your WS, then the general concern of breaking up the family unit is not there, it really is about what YOU want going forward.

I hope your WS comes round, I hope she has an epiphany and realizes that she has to fix this, but in case she doesn't you have to protect yourself.

Please take care of yourself, eat, drink lots of water, sleep... connect with friends, get out of the house and remember life goes on, regardless.


ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/11/2013 15:11 PM

Hard Yards, thank you for your response.

It's encouraging and only confirms what i've been thinking about. I started the 180 process two days ago and WW seems to be reaching out to me more. The AP isn't married as far as i can tell.

I believe this is because she is seeing behaviour that she probably wasn't expecting.

I'm also thinking i need to deliver my non-negotiables if any R is to be considered. The more i think about this in an unemotional state the more i believe that I have nothing to really lose. Because on my current path the end is already written.

The question on i have on delivering the non-negotiables is it best to be done with a letter, verbally, or a combination of the two. In addition do i give a certain amount of time for the WW to respond to my non-negotiables? If so how much 1 day, 2 days, a week. Also as part of delivering this do i need to clearly state the consequnce, that if she doesn't accept them I will start the D process?

hard_yards posted 10/11/2013 15:42 PM

Look, this has to be about YOU being in control of the situation, you dictating how things progress.


I would totally stage the whole event.

Take her to a nice cafe, somewhere you don't normally go, that way if things go south your favorite cafe isn't "tainted".

Write down your non negotiables, have it there in an envelope. Tell her that you wish to lay out your requirements going forward, and do just that. Speak to her in moderated tones, this isn't an argument, it's a statement of fact. Don't let her interject, she can give her opinions later.

Tell her that you have no intention of "sharing" your wife.

NC has to be a must, either by letter or email, written by her and approved and delivered by you or in your presence.

Full access to all email accounts, phones etc... (although this is a little futile, it only takes seconds to get a new email address as many of us know!). If she defends her privacy, well, she gave up that right when she started her A, and what the WS wants is secrecy - not the same thing.

A full and complete account of all contact with AP, as detailed as you need (we don't all want all the gory details).

An account of all and any monies paid or spent on her A.

Her to commit fully to IC, and later on MC (no point in spending hard earned money on that at this stage).

Her to commit fully to a new and improved marriage...

as so on.... whatever you feel you need to attempt R.

Then give her the letter stating the same, tell her to spend some time thinking about what you've said, and leave.....

Project strength, show her a calm path ahead, be resolute.

There's a post 20/20 Hindsight, what I wish I'd done when I JFO, by Katherine41, I'll bump it up for you, a very powerful post.

[This message edited by hard_yards at 5:13 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 10/11/2013 15:46 PM

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I applaud your self reflection and personal journey story.
For myself, when I first found out- I asked him if he wanted to leave me. His answer was an immediate no.
Then I knew the decision was up to me. We had an amazing story before things fell apart and I did not want to lose him.
But- I knew things had to change.
My point is this- R is very difficult. It takes both partners committing fully. Not just to helping the other person, but to helping themselves. If you both are not honest and committed, it is IMO - doomed from the start.
You don't know what she wants. Do you know what you want? Do you still love her? Is what you had worth fighting for?
I answered yes to these questions about my H- but knew I had to lay some ground rules.
Complete honesty about the entire A. All of it.
I would not work harder at R than he was.
No contact was a must.
And he had to do a lot of reading and listening.
My H was committed from the start- I believe. Hasn't done one thing that makes me doubt his commitment.
And R is still a nightmare.
But I will say- we are in a good place now. Doing well and still working through it.
The A is hard enough to deal with- R is a bigger thing with no guarantees. It is not R if you both aren't fully committed.
Have you tried discussing your thoughts/doubts about R with her?
Are you comfortable with walking away from her? And if you're not sure- try to figure out why. If its because you love her and believe what you once had is worth fighting for- maybe an honest discussion is in order. That way you will know that you did what you could.
One thing I will say is that you don't have to decide right now.
But I have found that the only way to deal with the hamster wheel (thought spinning madly in your head) is to talk about it. If she is receptive, then that's a step. If she is not, then maybe you have some answers.
I am so sorry for your pain right now.
I wish you peace and strength.

kenny55 posted 10/11/2013 17:34 PM

Three people in a marriage does not work. It does not say much for her that there is no remorse. Had the same thing happen to me and we are done. This does not have to be your end though.

ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/11/2013 17:51 PM

Ok all so I've composed a non-negotiable letter. I'm would like others thoughts and feedback on what I've written. Never wrote one of these and to be honest never thought I'd need to.

My Dearest Wife,

I have been completely shocked and rocked by the discovery of your affair. My heart has been ripped from my chest and is hurting more than I could have every imagined. Am I angry, disappointed, disgusted, and flat out feel betrayed? Absolutely! These feelings are not only about you, but I have them to some degree with myself as well.

I know that our marriage has issues and I have contributed to many of them and as you have expressed you have as well. However, the fact that you chose to act out the way you did is your decision and your decision alone. The fact you could deceive me so blatanly and easily is the most disrespectful thing I've ever been part of, especially since you were a betrayed spouse at one time. I'm sure you feel justified in what you've done or felt justified while you were doing it; however, these were your justifications and a complete disregard for a person that you vowed commitment to and had built trust with.

Now do I love you? Absolutely! I love you more than ever as I see you in this vulnerable and broken state. I truly feel for you, and I know that you have all kinds of thoughts, emotions, and confusion going on in your heart and mind. To what degree I not sure, I can see it on your face daily. We are now two people that have their lives changed forever. How we work through this change and what comes out the other side is completely up to us.

The question that is before is what to do next? Divorce or reconciliation and a marriage that is stronger, more loving, and something that meets our emotional needs far more than either could have dreamed. My heart and minds desire is for us to work on our marriage and continue to write a story that is ours and is something that when others hear about our success are envious of what we created together. We have been through so much and invested so much.

In order for us to begin our journey back together there are some ground rules that need to put into place and all must be agreed to and monitored.

No Contact with the affair partner ever again. This means not playing in softball leagues this person plays in or even playing in the same ball fields or cities that run leagues. No email, phone, texting, or any kind of contact period. The ending of the relationship must be done via letter or email that is delivered by myself or in my presence

Agreement that you 100% committed to working on an improved marriage

Full transparency of all email accounts, cell phone accounts, bank accounts, credit card accounts, etc with logins and passwords

Full account of the Affair, dates, times, activities (including intimate times), the full timeline

An account of what monies you spent on the affair, how much and what it was for

Commitment to Individual Counseling and commitment to marriage counseling after you've done some individual work

These are non-negotiable things that I need in order to ensure that we are in this together and that you are committed to improving our marriage and making the rest of our life an incredible story. I know that you will need sometime to digest what has been documented in this letter. I want you to know that if you chose not to agree to the terms above I will begin the divorce process. The decision is still yours to make. This is truly NOT what I want. I am not interested in "sharing" my wife in this manner with anyone.

Your Loving Husband,

hard_yards posted 10/12/2013 05:33 AM

I can hear your pain in your words, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

The letter is great, but maybe fine tune it a bit.

If your pain was a concern for your WS, she wouldn't have taken this path. It's yet another hard blow to lay your heart on your sleeve only to find out that it doesn't make any difference.

I'd take out some of the comments relating to the pain you're feeling.

Certainly express how shocked you are, concede that you know your marriage hasn't been as rewarding for either of you as it could have been, accept that there needs to be change going forward....

Address the fact that if she was struggling, needed more form your relationship, seeking solace outside your marriage was destined for disaster, there were many things she could have done instead.

You don't want to alienate her, so give a little, get a little....

Let her know that your preferred choice is that you both work together towards a better life together, and that the start has to be...(your non negotiable requirements).

I wouldn't throw the D word in just yet, step around it, tell her that sharing a healthy marriage with her is what you want, however, living with ongoing infidelity is unacceptable to you.

I know this is really tough, it's a life changing event, I hope you're having some talks with your IC about what's happened, how to care and protect yourself, and work through this with your wife for the best outcome.

[This message edited by hard_yards at 5:49 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

jb3199 posted 10/12/2013 05:45 AM

That should do it.

The goal is to make the marriage look appealing, while still stating your minimal demands to move forward. It is all part of the trust building.

What is imperative is that you are non-waivering in this letter. As of this moment, while you admit that you have faults of your own in the marriage, they are in no way to be addressed simultaneously with the affair.

She has given you horseshit reasons for her affair(s), because there is no justification for them. And checking out of your marriage emotionally does not give you the right to live a single lifestyle. So make sure that even though it may take time for her to absorb this, it is still important to monitor her initial reactions...because you can't attempt to R without commitment from both sides.

Listen to her words, but look at her actions---this will let you know how committed...or not...she is to you and the marriage. Don't bend one inch on these demands, as they are minimums to possibly start the reconciliation process. She needs to be treated like a child because she is acting like a child. As the trust builds, the monitoring stops---because it is a natural progression to building a safe marriage.

jjct posted 10/12/2013 06:29 AM

Leave out the "loving husband", and tuck your pain under your sleeve.
I know this is blunt brother, I'm sorry - but she's 40fucking3 years old! You don't nice her back with your fantastic flowery prose, and you sure as hell don't have to define basic BASIC things to a so-called adult.

Maybe I'm SI's resident hardass, I dunno, but you know what attracts the wimmenz?

The fact that you're sitting there explaining what is required for any hope of successful reconciliation is enough. Expressions of your pain, your devotion, your willingness to stay by her side are just more soul flowers you're exposing for her to stomp on.

She already knows - she's making a choice to ignore.

There are 4 BASIC requirements for successful R. Like legs on a table, they are:
(You're including IC for her - that's fine!)

How long you wait for these requirements to be fulfilled to your satisfaction is up to you.
Sure, tell her - I love your self-discovery story!
You are the strong one here.
Show it.

She has to do the work - repeat
she has to do it, not you.
Getting sucked into fixing what you didn't break in the first place is a long road of futility.
Save yourself the time and pain.
Be STRONG. ExhaustedWhat2do)))

Tred posted 10/12/2013 06:54 AM

You are getting some great advice mate.

Getting sucked into fixing what you didn't break in the first place is a long road of futility.

That's the truth. You can't nice them back into the marriage.

The reason for her question is because she says that she doesnít feel that connection to me that she had before. She said she lost the connection in 2012 b4 the A. She started the A in August only after in May she made the mental decision that the relationship was dead and I wasnít going to change.

Pure bullshit justification. If she thought the marriage was over, why didn't she give you that memo? She could of at least told you that dating was now allowed to be fair. She is just being selfish, wanting her security from you while she leads a single life. Don't be her life support system - if all she is doing is taking, you can never give enough. Sorry you are here mate.

ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/13/2013 13:18 PM

Ok Folks. Just caught the WS/WW going over the OM apartment complex, after she told me she was going out of town to visit a girlfriend.

Basically, I looked at her shock turned and walked and i'm not talking. Going to move do the D road.

Tred posted 10/13/2013 13:24 PM

Sorry mate. That sucks.

hard_yards posted 10/13/2013 15:51 PM

Wow, that's bad news...

I'm assuming you followed her?

Look, you did your best, you were undergoing change for your own benefit, and her's, if she had been able to see past her own (selfish) needs.

I know it's yet another slap in the face, and removes any doubt about your next step.

At the very least you've been spared the added drama and trauma of TT, the time spent trying to R with a non complaint spouse.

Please take care of yourself, surround yourself with friends and family that you trust. Tell those that you need to, without any form of guilt or shame, this is not of your doing - it's rests solely with your WW.

Don't be afraid to lean on others while you deal with this. No man is an island.

The great folks down in D/S will be there for you.


ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/13/2013 16:04 PM

Thank u all for the time to read my posts and comments. I truly appreciate the different points of view and commentary. You will never know what they mean to me.

We are suppose to talk tomorrow. I told her that I would prefer her not to come home tonight.

I feel If she believes she is better off with OM then she can begin today.

hard_yards posted 10/13/2013 16:12 PM

I've been wondering how you were getting on, you've had so little time to process what's happened.

Have a think about meeting with her tomorrow at all.

Do you really need the further mind F....? What can she possibly say that you'd now want to hear?

IMHO, pack up some stuff for her, leave it outside on the step, and tell her further contact will be via your lawyer.

Don't risk yourself being subjected to any more disrespect.

Yep, SI is a godsend, all here have been on the receiving end of kindness and compassion from strangers, an amazing place.

ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/13/2013 16:21 PM

Thanks Hard_yards.

I agree all has happened quick. I believe a lot of my state is due to the work I've been doing on myself with IC over last few m

ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/13/2013 16:23 PM

Thanks Hard_yards.

I agree all has happened quick. I believe a lot of my state is due to the work I've been doing on myself with IC over last few months (since beginning of July) and help from my brother who has gone through a tougher more TT type of affair.

Plus I beleive life is too short to sit in a crappy place. We are responsible for our own actions. And I realize more than eer that I need to embrace this lane of thinking

ExhaustedWhat2do posted 10/14/2013 15:51 PM

Ok, caught WW 2nd time going over to OM's apartment yesterday. WS wanted to talk, I said it wasn't a good idea. I walked away. I told her she knew what I wanted and how I wanted to proceed and decision is on her.

WS said she was only dropping some of his stuff at his house and was going to mountains to visit a girlfriend, which she has never visited in the 8 years we've been together. Pretty much a bold faced lie to me.

Says she wants to talk tonight. I've concluded she is probably going to say she wants to D.

I feel sick for a few reasons, 1) because of how i made her feel that drove her to a vulnerable state (unloved, unwanted, undesired), 2) She is continuing this affair and she's picking the OM over me and 3) All the work I've been doing on myself, I'm actually in a position to give her the best of who I am and I have greater days ahead.

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