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topperoff22 posted 10/11/2013 16:51 PM

I put this in my other post, but also wanted to share this in a separate post. This will not apply to everyone because we each have unique situations and unique pain, but it is just some food for thought - for WS and BS alike.

I went to my IC session shortly after I wrote a hurt filled post this morning and my counselor said this (summarizing, of course):

"You are both hurting. In different ways, but you are hurting. At this point it doesn't matter who is hurting more or who started it or who hurt who first. What matters is that you are both hurting. If you lay all your cards out on the table you could just say...we are hurting at the same time. Because of that hurt you are both saying and doing things based on emotional responses."

She said we both have our walls up and are both defensive and protective of ourselves. We both want to say "I won't do this until she/he does this" and it is blocking us from healing, essentially.We need to recognize that we are both in pain. His pain may be different, but it's there. I know it is. I've seen his tears. HE may not feel what I feel and I don't feel what he feels. Only he knows what really went on in the affair, but what I can start to know, or learn, is that no matter what happened he regrets it, he is hurting, he wants us to repair this and grow stronger. I want that too.

My counselor said, "You both want the same thing -- to fix this marriage -- that is your common ground."

And she is right.

So when I get upset that he made this move (calling an attorney for a consultation, which has since been canceled), I have to understand he did it as a reaction to hurt, to fear, to pain that I am not inflicting, necessarily, but that the situation is.

And by responding in anger, based on fear and hurt, it does hurt the situation. By basing every reaction on emotion, instead of logic, we stall ourselves in our individual and collective healing.

Her words about us both hurting and both letting our emotions rule completely (they have to rule a bit, because we are human after all) hit me right between the eyes today. While I was sitting in the session my phone started beeping, very quietly. I looked down and I had seven "love you"s in my text messages. I came home and his arms were around me. We held each other and later we had some very tender moments that for the first time since this all started felt real and hopeful and like a marriage should be.

I really want BS and WS to the process of healing continues...if the WS is really remorseful, then at some point we are all on a level playing field of hurt and emotional pain and a desire to heal.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 10/11/2013 16:56 PM

Beautifully said and so true.
Thank you.

SpiderGrl posted 10/11/2013 17:05 PM

Suh a great post. It really is a shame that my primary thought is : Am I the only one that mostly doesn't care that my wh is hurting?

topperoff22 posted 10/11/2013 17:17 PM

Suh a great post. It really is a shame that my primary thought is : Am I the only one that mostly doesn't care that my wh is hurting?

There are days I really feel the same way. I do. Especially when all of this first started. THe less whiney he is about his "pain" and the more he admits he has been making this more about him than me, the less I feel that way.

roses303 posted 10/11/2013 17:18 PM

Spidergirl- that was my first thought too. Maybe someday I will be empathetic about his hurt but right now at this stage I want him to hurt. I want him to be in pain. I want him to understand that his pleasure caused irreparable pain to me, to our family, to our marriage. I'm not ready to "feel his pain" until I am confident that he has felt mine and has owned it.

TheAmazingWondertwin posted 10/11/2013 17:46 PM

Roses- you are absolutely right. I felt that too. And when I saw him in that place where I felt he really GOT IT- that is when my compassion stepped in.
And it's not 100 percent- I am still working on it. And I still get angry.
But I think I got tired of being angry and I had decided to R. He did all that I asked and more. I felt that both of us working through ALL of the pain together was part of that.
Not always easy. Doesn't always go to plan. Which is why I so appreciated this post. It is a reminder that We are working towards R- and I truly want that.

topperoff22 posted 10/11/2013 18:09 PM

And it's not 100 percent- I am still working on it. And I still get angry.

Same here!

blakesteele posted 10/11/2013 19:54 PM are so new to this. I am following your posts as I remember being in that same hyper-aware state. It is crazy is part of this are doing well. Just try not to rush it. What I see from you is many thoughts and actions....your fWS is apparently doing the same....then I see you analyzing what he is doing and trying to figure out his motives....which is impossible to do and will wear you out.

Stopping it is impossible at this both are wondering if the other is committed....if the A was a deal breaker for either of you.

Try to rest when you can, refrain from any life altering decisions for at least 6 months, a year is better.

I post out of compassion....I pray it comes across as such.

Peace be with you both.

Skan posted 10/11/2013 19:59 PM

This is one of the hardest things I have to know, right now. Even though he backslid and essentially forced me to discover him with porn, he really *is* hurting as much as I am right now.

Because he doesn't want to be D either. Because he is filled with self-hatred and disgust over his backsliding. Because he's terrified about the possibility of him dying of prostrate cancer like his father, when his eldest SIL had the same cancer that took his mother not two years ago. That he's embarrassed and humiliated that he is jobless now.

It takes all of my compassion and reason to understand and try to offer him a helping hand when he's hurt me so horribly. Even though he has reacted with grace when I threw him out of the bedroom.

Its so fricking hard, to remember that we are both hurting. When I'm hurting.

heartache101 posted 10/11/2013 20:09 PM

I have NEVER felt compassion to him for what he has done. Nadda.

bitterbetrayal posted 10/12/2013 03:50 AM

No no no.. he may be hurting, you may want to fix your marriage but his pain cannot match what you have suffered. He contacted his attorney????? You are only two and a bit months out.The point is that you are hurting more than him...far far far more. You need better advice from your IC. Please read this

eachdayisvictory posted 10/12/2013 06:13 AM

I think that the IC had a good thought for you to consider. Remember that you are allowed to form your own opinions on the IC's suggestions, which is really hard when you're so close to the trauma of discovery. I know I felt so lost, I was and still am concerned about being so susceptible to suggestions. So listen to IC, MC, and H, then sit, write, reflect on what you believe.
I am learning about my fWH's pain. I don't think his pain was the same as mine in any way, but as we work together and the AP is removed from our M, his pain grows, and I am learning how to better manage mine.
So in that respect, I do feel an 'even playing field' sort of sensation of pain. But I think it's important for me not to compare our pain. It is what it is, and everyone experiences pain differently - so all we can do is try to explain what we are feeling to each other.
And no matter how hard it is to understand how he could do this to me when the thought of hurting him kills me, I have to appreciate the reassurance that provides for me and my feelings of love for him. As he arrives back at that kind of love and connectedness to me, he has to know what he did to me and everyone we love. If I imagine that, I don't know how I would go on.

Kind of a ramble, probably not helpful.

Just step back sometimes and feel the sun on your face and look at something beautiful.

topperoff22 posted 10/12/2013 08:04 AM

{would like to edit this and remove it, but it's here..the good, the bad and ugh...the uhgly) Some of you people really have problems. You try to take something good and twist and twist and twist until it is bad. Seriously? I was trying to put up a good post about thinking of things differently. I have to agree...this damn forum makes me trigger and makes me miserable at times. There are some people who just want to tear down no matter what. Go tear down your own life and leave me alone. I'm not posting for awhile because I'm so tired of BITTER and ANGRY people. I can't take it anymore. And if you are here and yuor husband has cheated three and four times on you???? Seriously??? Stand up and get OUT!!!!!

[This message edited by topperoff22 at 6:46 PM, October 12th (Saturday)]

confused615 posted 10/12/2013 08:30 AM

Lashing out at people who are trying to help you...whether you agree with them or unfair.

You are very new to this. Every one of us has gone through what you are going through.

Your WH has cheated on you twice..has thrown things at you and been verbally and emotionally abusive. All of these things have come out in your posts. When people offer advice,they are doing so based on their experiences and YOUR posts. You won't always agree with the advice here..take what you want and leave the rest. But,remember,we are all hurting here.

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:30 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

rachelc posted 10/12/2013 08:37 AM

We both want to say "I won't do this until she/he does this" and it is blocking us from healing,

I think there are posters replying to you who have been at this a lot longer and are sending you a cautionary tale.
I guess I interpret what your IC said as a bit of rugsweeping, especially this close to DDay.

I'm not sure what she meant by the above quote. I guess I would suggest you NOT give anything until you receive full remorse from him for a long time! He should be the giver right now, and falling over himself to make things right for YOU! You have a right to be protective - and should be until HE proves himself safe to be with.

The playing field is never level. And this is coming from someone who had an affair and then was "affaired on." it is just two separate traumatic awful hurts.... I wish counselors would realize this.

SpiderGrl posted 10/12/2013 08:42 AM

Some of you people really have problems. You try to take something good and twist and twist and twist until it is bad

While I have seen that, I don't really see this in this thread at all.

There are some people who just want to tear down no matter what. Go tear down your own life and leave me alone.

I see people gently trying to advocate for the BSs that are in need of a different perspective. I see them attempting to throw in the "grain of salt" that is needed with the super optimistic posts that sometimes have an indication of being overly understanding of a WS that is still dealing with his/her own part in this aftermath. I see gentle reminders to put yourself first. That (general you not specifically you) you are what matters most.

And if you are here and yuor husband has cheated three and four times on you???? Seriously??? Stand up and get OUT!!!!!

This is rude and uncalled for. You are hurting and we get that but you have no clue what drives any of these people here. You may be hurting but that doesn't give you the right to lash out to innocent people.

And if you think my post was part of the bitterness: let's revisit this in a couple months when the shock wears off and all you feel is serious anger.

You are better than this Topper. You post thoughtful, emotional topics. I appreciate your posts because they make me think. But you lay them out there for input. Don't get mad when you get others' truly honest opinions in a non-confrontational manner. It's what you ask for.

SpiderGrl posted 10/12/2013 08:43 AM

Sorry for the cross post but I'm not removing mine.

toughernow posted 10/12/2013 09:05 AM


I hope your still visiting the forum. I remember how raw the feelings were in those first few moths. When the emotions are running high things get said that can't be taken back and things get done that can't be undone. I began to realize, like you did, that he is hurting too. Yes their hurt is different than ours, but its still REAL. This is not to condone what they have done or to make excuses for their destructive behaviour, but to try to Understand and HEAL!
I realize now that as painful as this whole ordeal has been I would not trade places with my fWH. Yes I have suffered from heartbreak, confusion, fear and the humiliation that comes from discovering that someone who loved more than anyone else in the world was capable of hurting me in this way. It's been a humbling experience! However, if I were given the opportunity to trade places with him...I would not. Not in a million years would I want to feel the shame, fear and regret that he is feeling now. I still have the respect of friends and family, not to mention the respect of our children. Most of all I still have my self-respect. I can hold my head high with the knowledge that I have lived my life with Integrity. I have honoured my promises to him.
He has to live with the knowledge that he caused tremendous pain to those that he loves most in the world...including himself.
I appreciate your post. It has reminded me that R is "our common ground". And God knows we need those reminders sometimes.

topperoff22 posted 10/12/2013 09:06 AM

Thank you for all the help you each have offered and I shouldn't have lashed out. Take care and good luck to all of you.

confused615 posted 10/12/2013 09:24 AM

Please don't leave. Many of us have said something here on SI that we regret( Hello! ).

It is great to be is great that you acknowledge that he is hurting too..because Im sure he is. But right now,you need to care for you. In the last week your posts have been all over the place..which is're 2 months out on an emotional roller coaster. You have had 2 ddays. Everyone here just wants you to be cautious. It is too early to say if your WH is remorseful. True remorse comes with time. The beginning of R should be about you and helping you. You have had your world torn apart. By his choices and decisions. Of course at some point the WS's pain and premarital issues need to be addressed..but 2 months out from R? When you are still just trying to breath? No. YOU come first right now. You are bleeding out. Once you get that under control,once the two of you have tended to the bleeding,then you can help him, and then you can focus on premarital issues.

Your WH needs to face all that he has done..he needs to see your pain and hear you tell him how you feel. Even if it hurts him. How else will he understand just how devastating his actions were?

No rugsweeping. You will get though this. We will help you,if you let us. I hope you do.


[This message edited by confused615 at 9:25 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

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